[General Battuta]

I'm not ready to blame the Tea Party for the actions of one person but I do really like Mr. Olbermann's speechothing.

[Mongoose]

Olbermann's speech is good and all, but the trouble is that the people who need to take it to heart the most will completely ignore it because of its source.  It doesn't help that he singles out several right-wing individuals and then basically says, "Oh yeah, and that goes for the left too."  If you ask me how I know that's what will happen, read this.  And I wonder why I never visit that forum anymore...

(Honestly, I don't put Olbermann that much above Beck myself most days, but that was admittedly good reading.)

[NGTM-1R]

It doesn't help that he singles out several right-wing individuals and then basically says, "Oh yeah, and that goes for the left too."

Hey, if you've got prominent left-wingers who've been threatening violence or used violent terminology regarding their opponents on the right, I'm sure he'd like to hear it.

[Mongoose]

Well yeah, that's sort of the problem, but when you're trying to reach out to a group that implicitly mistrusts you and then explicitly list only people on their side of the aisle, you're not going to have much success.  I feel like he would have been better to leave the personal references out entirely, since maybe then I could justify copypasta'ing it over to that banal excuse of an E&C board.

[Flipside]

Aaaaannd the Westboro baptist church show again how they struggle to achieve the rank of 'Human'...

http://chicago.gopride.com/news/article.cfm/articleid/15739936/hate-church-plans-protest-at-funeral-of-9yearold-killed-in-az-shooting

Seriously, these people are indicative of everything that led up to this tragic event.

[iamzack]

How fair is that? People get murdered for being gay, being black, being near a democratic congresswoman...

Where the hell are the violent nutcases when you need them, anyway?

[Unknown Target]

I don't see how that link is relevant to this discussion Flipside. If it is please provide an argument for it.

[Bobboau]

because it is about the kid killed at the shooting that this thread is about?

[Scotty]

The funeral they're protesting is for a nine year old girl killed by the gunman.

[Unknown Target]

Ok, thank you, carry on. I didn't read enough of the linked article, and was not aware of where the shooting took place (apparently Arizona). My mistake.

[NGTM-1R]

Aaaaannd the Westboro baptist church show again how they struggle to achieve the rank of 'Human'...

You have sadly just summed up their entire existence I think, and not in a humorous way considering the stories Nathan and Mark Phelps have told about their father.

[Kolgena]

Sometimes I'm awestruck by the thickheadedness of some members of our species. I mean, it almost justifies dictatorships and ruling through brutality if an entire country is made up of these sorts of nutcases. (wooo Hobbes)

Ironically, oppressive dictatorships today often have nutcases in power.

[Unknown Target]

Sometimes I'm awestruck by the thickheadedness of some members of our species. I mean, it almost justifies dictatorships and ruling through brutality if an entire country is made up of these sorts of nutcases. (wooo Hobbes)

Ironically, oppressive dictatorships today often have nutcases in power.

As a clarification for the discussion; are you suggesting that any country in particular is made of up of people who protest these funerals (I am assuming that is the sort of individual you are referring to)?

[Flipside]

I suppose the way I look at it is this:

You have the right to Freedom of Speech. That's written down. You also have the Right to treat other people with respect and politeness and to be treated the same in return. If anything, you should be fighting harder for those, because they aren't specifically written down. Groups like Westboro exploit that fact for self-promotion.

[iamzack]

Freedom of speech doesn't protect inciting panic or lying at certain times or slander or libel, and I personally believe that it absolutely does not protect what the WBC does, which is intentionally causing great emotional harm to already vulnerable groups of people.

[Unknown Target]

iamzack, why do you personally believe that? What are your stated assertions that cause you to hold that belief? If I were to say that, following a court ruling on what you're saying, all speech that is considered harmful to vulnerable groups should be banned, would you be for it or against it? Would you be comfortable with the major ramifications of a belief such as that?

[Scotty]

Ya know, with you moderating the everloving hell out of this topic, it feels less like a discussion and more like a lecture. :\

[General Battuta]

Seconded.

[Flipside]

In fairness, that's not moderation, it's a question And quite an interesting one too in context, because it's a question that is rattling around the US more and more, "What is Freedom of Speech? Where does it begin, where does it end, should it have an end-point?" etc.

If the people choose to physically remove the Westboro church from the loaction, is that not Freedom of Speech of the people as much as the fact the Church is there in the first place? Was Freedom of Speech designed purely for criticism of the Government, not the all over 'pass-card' it is interpreted as now?

These are all questions that do need examining more closely.

[Unknown Target]

Ack, I posted this in response to Battuta and deleted it, then I remembered my motto of not deleting what I post. Here it is, my apologies.

Admittedly that last one was because I was specifically interested in keeping the discussion going in the direction that iamzack was talking about. I'm genuinely interested in the discussion going on here, and I was starting to interject because I saw it was going so well for the last 2, almost 3 pages without me posting anything. I don't believe there was anything wrong with me asking a question of iamzack specifically, as as my personal opinion I didn't see any interesting avenues of discussion pop up for a bit.

tl:dr; I thought the topic was functioning well but getting boring, so I decided to spur it on in something I was interested in and see if anyone bit. You're free to disregard what I just said.