[Destiny]

Oh and just for a note on my point: It's pitting the UEF against a Colossus and it's battlegroup. Not alone~

And where do you take this battlegroup from, since you already sent all your money into the Colossus ?

Remember that the Tevs are on the verge of economic collapse. One of their main drive to wage war in Sol is to get hold of their economical and industrial power. They already have sent most their resources to build the Sol Portal. More than half their fleet is still comprised of Capella-era ships or older. If they had tried to build a Colossus, especially in parallel of such a project as the Sol portal, none of the newest Terran tech would probably even happen. No blue beams, no Balors, no SSMs. And the UEF warships are more than a match to Capella-era stuff.

The GTVA would basically have been toast. They would never have the firepower to defend such a big and slow target as the Collossus if it was deployed in the Sol theater. A couple of Narayana or a few wings of Varjas and you can say bye to the Collie, not to mention a wing of Karunas with AWACS support. Which means that the GTVA would never risk to send the Colly in Sol. Which means that they'll have to fight a war in the Sol system with assets even inferior to what they have in WiH. Since they didn't manage to gain any sizeable foot on Sol during 18 months even with the new tech, they would probably have been fought back in a few months without it.

I feel like all the points the others and I made in favor of the Colossus (and why it would suck anyway) was overlooked for some reason, heheh.

[The E]

Slowly? You are talking about a total population for the GTVA alone that is somewhere over 9 billion. Also, antimatter isn't harvested. It's manufactured using rather large particle accelerators. Which take a lot of supplemental infrastructure to build and operate. Which the GTVA does not have to the same extent as the UEF, due to being scattered across a dozen, not completely terraformed systems.

As for UEF weaponry, well.... You are calling a fleet that has bombers that carry guns that shoot friggin Antimatter projectiles less advanced? Also, you are forgetting the Shrike missile, which is an EMP warhead. So yeah. Take a look at weapons like the Apocalypse, Hydra, Slammer, Redeemer, Vajra, UX Accelerator and Shidhe and tell us again how inferior UEF weaponry is.

[Liberator]

So what you aren't saying is that the Beis and what's left of the Wargods either will or will not have or not have an impact or no impact at all.

[Commander Zane]

the Wargods either will or will not have or not have an impact or no impact at all.

Wait...what?

[Destiny]

Well Noemi is getting transferred to the Eris...

Anyways:

The Apocalypse, Redeemer, those Sledgehammer and Jackhammer bombs and all that are all antimatter. The GTVA also uses antimatter. The Warhammer is just a bomb version of the Hornet, used in the Great War. Old stuff. GTVA also uses swarm weaponry. The Slammer is just a different version of the Infyrno that so happens to explode in one direction and has aspect lock, GTVA also fields this kind of weapon except it explodes differently and is dumbfire, and they also have one that launches missiles. Mass drivers, railguns, gauss cannons, EMP missiles, energy vampires, shieldbreakers are all under electromagnetic weaponry, which the GTVA has as well. Hell, they've even got a rapid firing mass driver on multiple gunbanks even. Flak weaponry, the GTVA also employs this. The GTVA uses plasma weaponry as well.

You don't see the UEF utilizing Meson weaponry. Xaser weaponry. Subatomic weaponry w/ zero-point energy. That annoying Morning Star. The UEF lacks even target acquisition beacons, the TAGs. Even without the TAGs, the Charybdis can do ECCM against an Ocular.

Oh and: Beams

[The E]

Okay, I give up. Continue believing wrong things.

[Destiny]

Each to his own opinion, I'm satisfied with that outcome actually so...end of story.

[Commander Zane]

Except the Hornet isn't used to overwhelm point defense to ensure that ship hull is impacted even to a degree.
The Slammer and Infyrno have to be used differently in order to work to their perscribed function. Also the Piranha isn't really all that effective.
You're confusing EM when you throw EMP into the list, those mass drivers, railguns, gauss cannons, Lampreys, Circes aren't causing the EMP effects that the Shrike and EMP Adv. use.

Sans the fact that they have antimatter projectiles, the UEF has a weapon that is even better than the Prometheus (which was extremely advanced based on the Tech Lab description), the Rapier.
The GTVA has the Maxim, being a devastating hull-breaker to ships all the way up to Cruisers like the Fenris, Aten, and Cain. But the UEF has similar weapons that break the hulls of Corvettes. On Bombers.

[Dragon]

Look how far we got from topic...
Anyway, UEF does have their own version of Maxim, the Gattler.
It uses ammo, but is quite effective (I'm too lazy to check the table to compare them now though).
It has an equivalent of every fighter weapon GTVA has, and more.
They are on the same tech level as GTVA, just developed in a different direction.

[Qent]

The Apocalypse, Redeemer, those Sledgehammer and Jackhammer bombs and all that are all antimatter. The GTVA also uses antimatter.

Antimatter has been used as a weapon since the Great War. Nothing new here except that the UEF has more. And it's improved since.

The Warhammer is just a bomb version of the Hornet, used in the Great War. Old stuff. GTVA also uses swarm weaponry.

I don't know why you think that "swarm" counts as technology, but the ability to put swarm torpedoes on bombers is new.

The Slammer is just a different version of the Infyrno that so happens to explode in one direction and has aspect lock, GTVA also fields this kind of weapon except it explodes differently and is dumbfire, and they also have one that launches missiles.

True that aspect lock and cluster missiles are not new, but one has to wonder how the UEF made something so vastly more powerful than Piranhas or Infyrnos with medium-long range to boot.

Mass drivers, railguns, gauss cannons, EMP missiles, energy vampires, shieldbreakers are all under electromagnetic weaponry, which the GTVA has as well.

Lamprey and Circe are kinda terrible.

Hell, they've even got a rapid firing mass driver on multiple gunbanks even.

Maxim techroom entry indicates that it is at least partially a firearm.

Flak weaponry, the GTVA also employs this. The GTVA uses plasma weaponry as well.

I don't know why you're using this as an example, since again this plasma has been around since the Great War, just that the UEF's is better.

You don't see the UEF utilizing Meson weaponry.

We don't know how meson bombs work, but there was speculation a while back that it's just a cool name for a big matter-antimatter bomb.

Xaser weaponry.

"Xaser" in BP is just a specific kind of plasma weapon.

Subatomic weaponry w/ zero-point energy.

I guess you got me there. The UEF has nothing approaching that level of technobabble. Then again, since it is technobabble, I have no idea how advanced it really is.

That annoying Morning Star.

The Flail is ooold, works on the same principles, and is arguably better.

The UEF lacks even target acquisition beacons, the TAGs. Even without the TAGs, the Charybdis can do ECCM against an Ocular.

Yeah. I wouldn't cite this as an example of "technology," however.

Oh and: Beams

The UEF does have beam technology from the defectors if nothing else. They do not have the means to mass-produce it.

Most of these things amount to tactical doctrine more than technology.

[Destiny]

Oh, Xaser weapons are considered as plasma in BP? That's interesting. I don't think I can look at the Subach the same now...for the Slammer, I guess they just...well, tossed more explosives or something into it. For me, I think swarm as a technology is plausible, you'd have to do a lot of research on it, so the warheads don't hit each other or something and require intense synchronization, something that should be out of the norms for any 'normal' missile/bomb technology. I personally don't use the Circe and Lampreys myself unless I'm bored or have three banks. Limited utility, but I believe it's playstyle. Although I admit, classifying the Maxim as a firearm is...hilarious. I guess tactical doctrine is a better word than classifying it as a class of technology, yeah.

--------------
Dragon:
Well...I'm not referring to the effects of the technlogy, just what they're classified under. Hornets, Tornadoes, that swarm bomb, they're all swarm weaponry. Slammers and Infyrnos are high explosive, anti-fighter/bomber screen weapons or something like that...I'd forget about the Piranha anyway. Under electromagnetic weapons, electromagnetism used to propel things, and electromagnetic pulses to mess with people's cockpits, are still electromagnetic. It's simple classification, like bullets are bullets, bombs are bombs, rockets are rockets and missiles are missiles (be it nuclear missiles, anti-tank guided missiles, air-to-ground missiles, etc.). Going into subclasses of weaponry is an entirely different matter, like EMP missiles to railguns and stuff.

Although I still don't know what the Rapier is classified as besides as an energy weapon, actually. The Gattler does have more ROF and damage IIRC, but being ammo-bound is kinda sucky...especially when we're Morning Staring the topic.

[PsychoLandlord]

Most of these things amount to tactical doctrine more than technology.

This. You're confusing "technologically inferior" with "practical", Destiny.  The UEF is not behind in the slightest. In fact, in many ways, they're ahead, especially on the weapon miniaturization front.

If anything, the technological achievements of the UEF are more impressive, simply because they didn't have a metric asston of fresh Shivan wreckage to root through and reverse engineer, save for the few parts of the Lucifer that made it through.

[Destiny]

I think you're right with that confusion actually, or something like that. A bit stubborn, I am. Although I thought the Lucifer ejected some fighters or something on the first time I watched the endgame cutscene, replaying it showed that it was flares and stuff. Watching it on Youtube again shows that one (the other one exploded I think) of the Shivan Super Laser prongs survived.

[PsychoLandlord]

Yeah, one prong made it, but I highly doubt that one prong had it's internals anywhere near intact enough to base any real Beam research on, and unless I'm horrifically mistaken, aside from the Prometheus, most GTA weapons research during the great war was done outside Sol. Unfortunately, I cant remember where in FS I read that, so if I'm wrong, someone please point it out.

In any case, lacking the tech necessary to produce beam weaponry, and with Blob turrets obviously not being up to snuff, it was more Practical for the UEF to pursue a different Anti-Capital heavy weapon, in this case High Energy Kinetics, which, while less fanciful than other FS weapons, are easily the equal of many of the older GTVA beams when used correctly, as shown many times in WIH.

[Destiny]

Pretty sure most were done outside Sol, like in the Laramis and that Luyten<numbers here system>. I believe having to go back to use kinetic weaponry led to the UEF ships being...well, long and sleek like that. Although they do seem kinda empty with holes/gaps, haha. It would be kinda dangerous to fly out while the cannons were firing too.

Wiki says a bit.

[Mars]

I would say the GTVA demonstrates a higher level of technology, but not necessarily effectiveness.

The Rapier is just a higher quality Prometheus,

Beam cannons were not developed in Sol,

the intrasystem gate system is not mentioned as new technology, it's likely it would just be impractical to the GTVA. I doubt very highly it required the same level of technology as the Sol gate.

The GTVA is continuously shown with better subspace drives on vessels of comparable size. They're also referred to as much more efficient in general.

While the Balor isn't better than the Rapier, a particle gun mass produced on such a wide level seems much more advanced. It's akin to a weaponized laser that isn't necessarily any better than an assault rifle - it still displays a lot of technological ability.

[Commander Zane]

The Balor is still crazy deadly nonetheless.

[Mars]

The Balor is still crazy deadly nonetheless.

I find the Kayser (and to a certain extent the Prometheus S) more deadly to small, maneuverable fighters. The Balor is incapable of landing volley shots, which makes it less effective when you're dealing with something hard to hit. The new ships like the Atalanta and Nyx can handle Kaysers on Insane pretty easily.

Balor is freakin excellent against Shivan bombers however, Forced Entry is almost easy with a quad bank of Balors in an Aurora.

[Buckshee Rounds]

Is your "What If?" a free Colossus for the GTVA? Because if they had built another Colossus (and not gotten a free one from God) then they would not have had all those other ships.

Was gonna make this point myself. If you're gonna gift the GTVA a whole Colossus you might as well gift the UEF another three Solaris', then we'll see how well the Tevs fair.

On the subject of GTVA's supposed tech superiority: don't forget that they got left with the R&D branch of the GTI after Sol was closed off, even if they did rebel. Plus the Tev's technological inovations are due in large part to Vasudan contributions as well. IIRC it's mentioned somewhere in BP fluff that the current line of Terran ships have Vasudan designed reactors. Sort of implies that the BBlue et al. wouldn't be possible without the Vasudans. Heck beam weapons in any form might not have been possible if it wasn't for the T-V alliance.

In other words the UEF, in a single star system, has managed to equal if not best the technological advancements of two species! Course saying all this we have yet to see the Zods' new ships in action, I really hope R2 is friendly to the poor old Buntu.

[Dragon]

Once you see the new Vasudan ships in action, you cetrainly won't be disappointed.
I don't know when they'll come in (it's possible that they won't be in R2 at all), but when they will, it will be awesome.