[Mars]

Is your "What If?" a free Colossus for the GTVA? Because if they had built another Colossus (and not gotten a free one from God) then they would not have had all those other ships.

Was gonna make this point myself. If you're gonna gift the GTVA a whole Colossus you might as well gift the UEF another three Solaris', then we'll see how well the Tevs fair.

On the subject of GTVA's supposed tech superiority: don't forget that they got left with the R&D branch of the GTI after Sol was closed off, even if they did rebel. Plus the Tev's technological inovations are due in large part to Vasudan contributions as well. IIRC it's mentioned somewhere in BP fluff that the current line of Terran ships have Vasudan designed reactors. Sort of implies that the BBlue et al. wouldn't be possible without the Vasudans. Heck beam weapons in any form might not have been possible if it wasn't for the T-V alliance.

In other words the UEF, in a single star system, has managed to equal if not best the technological advancements of two species! Course saying all this we have yet to see the Zods' new ships in action, I really hope R2 is friendly to the poor old Buntu.

That's not really an accomplishment. The Sol system has roughly the same population and a better infrastructure as the Terran half of the GTVA, and they haven't faced gigantic Shivan attacks wiping out whole sections of their economy. Yes the Tevs have had help from the Vasudans, and yes they had the GTI, but it makes little difference how they have the technology, the fact is, they have it.

I think it's fair to say that the UEF has done fairly well for itself technologically and tactically, I'm not disputing that. What I do dispute is that the Feds are technologically even with the GTVA.

Once you see the new Vasudan ships in action, you cetrainly won't be disappointed.
I don't know when they'll come in (it's possible that they won't be in R2 at all), but when they will, it will be awesome. 

I worry that the Vasudans will be brought in as stupidly powerful, flawless creatures. I have faith in the writers, don't get me wrong, it just seems like that's what would happen in the "average" universe (which BP is not)

Battuta's analysis of his (and the rest of the teams?) plans for the Vasudan's rather medieval "byzantine" politics gives me hope, however.

EDIT:

It's not that I fear the story will be bad, I'm just so entirely engrossed in it so far I fear the day when I'm not XD

[Mars]

So I updated my collection with all of the misc. TEV ships in Massive Battle. The ranks look a bit more even I think.  (They're clearly still UEF heavy)

[Liberator]

It would be a close battle, but the GTVA would still win.

[headdie]

i dont know, the GTVA might have 2 more destroyers but the UEF has a ton more smaller ships, ok some of those would have to be committed to patrol/escort/other non directly fighting the GTVA duties but the UEF still has enough ships to make a good scrap of it

[Commander Zane]

There wouldn't be a single GTVA fighter left with that number of Frigates.

[-Norbert-]

I think it's fair to say that the UEF has done fairly well for itself technologically and tactically, I'm not disputing that. What I do dispute is that the Feds are technologically even with the GTVA.

As far as military technology goes you might be right, but we have little idea about other sectors. I wouldn't be surprised if the UEF was far ahead in civilian technologies, since they didn't put much money into their military, while the GTVA seems to live and breathe for their military (small wonder with the looming threat of the Shivans being ever present).

[Destiny]

Fleet formation is important too, right now as it stands the both fleets have horrible formations.

[Mars]

Fleet formation is important too, right now as it stands the both fleets have horrible formations.

You try spending only five minutes putting down every ship from a list  and putting them in perfect formations and fitting all of them in a screenshot that gives good estimations of numbers. The UEF simply has too many cruisers to easily display. I like stacked (vertical) formations, but then you couldn't see the ships clearly.
EDIT:

I mostly didn't put them in tactical formations at all. Especially the UEF side, which is so crowded with cruisers it's damn near impossible.

There wouldn't be a single GTVA fighter left with that number of Frigates.

Assuming 12 fighters for Karunas, [fudged]12 fighters for Narayanas[/fudged], and 192 fighters for Solaris destroyers:
12(21) + 12(14) + 192(3) =  996 fighters in the UEF fleet (around 83 squadrons) (not stationed on an installation)

Assuming 96 fighters on an Orion, 150 for a Hecate, [megafudged] 200 for a Titan, 96 for a Raynor, and 12 for a Diomedes: [/megafudged]
96(1)+150(2)+200(1)+96(1)+12(9)= 800 fighters in the Sol Expeditionary Force arsenal (around 66 squadrons)

I get the impression that GTVA fighters are a hell of a lot cheaper in general though.

[The E]

Yes, they are. Also note that there are only very few frigates that have full fighter complements, and that the UEF shipyards have only just begun to ramp up to full wartime production, and that the UEF suffers from a severe lack of trained pilots. Basically, they have more fighters than they have people to pilot them.

[Commander Zane]

Oh I was just saying that they would be splattered by point-defense like tomatoes through a spinning jet turbine.

[Mars]

Oh I was just saying that they would be splattered by point-defense like tomatoes through a spinning jet turbine.

I'd have to say, I think a Chimera has point defenses at least equal to a Karuna, possibly stronger.

[Commander Zane]

Yeah except looking at the fleet comparison image, they have a mere four Chimeras.
There's 21 Karunas.
That alone is a very tight defensive screen.

[Buckshee Rounds]

The Deimos isn't exactly lacking for anti-fighter weaponry, heck any Corvette is a nuisance to fighters to say the least. No UEF pilot would get through that engagement unscathed. Destiny, if it was an honest battle scenario the formation wouldn't look anything close to that. For one thing the ships are only set out on two axis. I wish more people would play Homeworld, or watch the end battle between Kirk and Khan. Space is 3D.

Looking at that pic really rams it home just how reliant the UEF are on the Sanctus.

[crizza]

Another problem are shockwaves.
I think The E said it already, but the Apocalypse has a nasty shockwave, which damages ships more than the actual warhead.
I wonder what would happen, if Tev ships would cover each other with flack and AAA...
What drains more energy, an Ultra AAA or a small beam, so the TEVs could refit their Aeolus-cruisers with AAA instead of their two small beams.

[Commander Zane]

For one thing the ships are only set out on two axis. I wish more people would play Homeworld, or watch the end battle between Kirk and Khan. Space is 3D.

For one thing they're purposely laid out as such so you can actually see the ships.

[Buckshee Rounds]

For one thing the ships are only set out on two axis. I wish more people would play Homeworld, or watch the end battle between Kirk and Khan. Space is 3D.

For one thing they're purposely laid out as such so you can actually see the ships.

I know, I was saying what they would look like if it was a battle formation, which it isn't.

[Mars]

I know, I was saying what they would look like if it was a battle formation, which it isn't.

Hmm, if you want, you could try to have a go at it. I've attached the mission file. The ships aren't named; I suppose they could be, but that would take a while. You'll also get a lot of errors when you fist open it.

Yeah except looking at the fleet comparison image, they have a mere four Chimeras.
There's 21 Karunas.
That alone is a very tight defensive screen.

The UEF heavily outnumbers TEVs in general; but consider that Hyperions, Aeolous's, and Leviathans have better anti-fighter equipment than Sancti; Chimeras, Bellerophons and Diomedes have at least comparable anti-fighter defenses to Karunas (I think they're better with AAA and pulse guns); and every destroyer there (including the Carthage) has some serious anti-fighter potential. The Carthage has been modified with flak guns, Hecates were always all right, and the new destroyers eat wings of bombers quite easily with large pulse guns and AAA.

Solari carry 19 Point Defense Turrets and 15 burst flak - deadly to be sure, but at various times I've watched Shivan bombers sitting in burst flak, pounding away at their target. Remember also that most GTVA point defenses get better with difficulty (pulse cannons on insane fire faster - up to 2 every second) it's hard to make comparisons when most UEF weaponry fires at the same rate all the time.






[attachment deleted by ninja]

[Buckshee Rounds]

I know, I was saying what they would look like if it was a battle formation, which it isn't.

Hmm, if you want, you could try to have a go at it. I've attached the mission file. The ships aren't named; I suppose they could be, but that would take a while. You'll also get a lot of errors when you fist open it.

I don't know if something's getting lost in the text, but I wasn't criticising. It was a response to Destiny's comment. God knows I've got the free time to try and move all those ships into formation, but I'm not going to even try, my poor old rig will die of shame evn simply attempting to load so many ships. Heck one Karuna is enough of an fps killer...

[Mars]

lol, I didn't see it as criticism. I just don't trust my ability to move them into formation. I'll give it a go tomorrow or something.

[Destiny]

I've watched Shivan bombers sitting in burst flak, pounding away at their target. Remember also that most GTVA point defenses get better with difficulty (pulse cannons on insane fire faster - up to 2 every second) it's hard to make comparisons when most UEF weaponry fires at the same rate all the time.

Were they Seraphims, by any chance? Owwie.