Author Topic: Question about jump nodes  (Read 7117 times)

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Offline Destiny

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Topic title is now 'Question about jump nodes leading to very informative offtopicness', mhm.

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Re: Question about jump nodes
The thing that strikes me as bizarre is that you suddenly need Anemois at all, when previously the Terran fleet got by without, or the assertion that you can't surge ships into the combat zone for a week or two and then withdraw them, and they'll be able to operate on their own stores during this time.

Well, in FS2 retail, ships that sustained heavy damage in the nebula (the Aquitaine for instance) had to fall back to Capella (two systems away) to make repairs. Judging by what we have seen in BP:AoA, the Anemois can act as a mobile repair plateform. Having a logistics ship also reduce the impact of being cut from supply lines.

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Question about jump nodes
And we never saw more than 2 desties operating in the nebula at the same time. Which coincides with the number of desties the tevs sent in Sol without previous logistical support at the beginning of the war. I think we can base the node bottleneckness on that.
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Offline Kolgena

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Logistics ships also somewhat discourage rash tactics against taking back the Sol node. If the UEF knew that logistical support was dead the instant the node was theirs, they would naturally be inclined to throw some heavy weight at it. However, if they knew that 2 logistics ships could keep Serkr squad and a few destroyers repaired and working for months after they lose access to the Sol node, well then, it's not nearly as attractive a solution.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 10:54:37 am by Kolgena »

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Question about jump nodes
I think there is something in the Freespace universe you don't seem to be aware of.

It's called "jump nodes".

Also known as "the bottleneck of DOOM" in BPverse.

Really? Bottlenecks are only a problem if you get the enemy fleet on the other side.. THEN node blockades make sense. But the UEF doesn't hold the Sol-DS node. If they did, the GTVA wouldn't in Sol in the first place.

So again, what kind of a bottleneck are we talking about here?
GTVA ships operate in Sol. They hold the node.
Any ship in system can jump  for support/resupply/repairs in 2 minutes.
Repair ships and reinforcements from DS can be there in 15-20.
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Offline Kolgena

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Re: Question about jump nodes
What kind of logistical set-up is in Delta Serpentis anyways? If you don't have shipyards and other logistical infrastructure that is equivalent to two anemois, then it doesn't matter how fast you can get to/from DS.

It's also pretty advantageous to have the ability to set up camp anywhere you want, and move at a moment's notice. At least, it's definitely preferable to having stationary bases.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Question about jump nodes
It's not just Delta Serpentis, you can get supplies to Sol from the whole of GTVA space without any hindrance.

 

Offline Kolgena

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Re: Question about jump nodes
That's true for supplies such as food and ordinance, but not true of ship repairs. As I understand it, logistics vessels can repair destroyers to 100% at the front lines. Unless DS has something that can do the same thing, you have to fly your destroyers to some other star system in GTVA space, which is no longer some hour-long trip.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Ganymedes


Also ship rotation.

 

Offline Kolgena

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Which aren't mobile. Is the GTVA actually going to build 2-3 of these in DS just for the Sol operation? They're pretty huge last I checked.



But yeah, it's definitely feasible to have a stationary support base set up in DS. However, if you already have a handful of Anemois lying around from before, why not use them as they are in WiH?

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Question about jump nodes
:wtf:

And?

 

Offline Kolgena

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Re: Question about jump nodes
My point is, if you're the GTVA, you'd rather use the Anemois you already had from a long time ago, rather than build new Arcadias and Ganymedes in DS just for the Sol operation.

So while they're at it, why would they just sit the Anemois in DS if they can run them out and about in Sol for greater efficiency?

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Question about jump nodes
My point is, if you're the GTVA, you'd rather use the Anemois you already had from a long time ago, rather than build new Arcadias and Ganymedes in DS just for the Sol operation.
You could always move the ship to the system. And then have another ship rotate in to replace it.

So while they're at it, why would they just sit the Anemois in DS if they can run them out and about in Sol for greater efficiency?
Maybe because Wargods

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Well, in FS2 retail, ships that sustained heavy damage in the nebula (the Aquitaine for instance) had to fall back to Capella (two systems away) to make repairs. Judging by what we have seen in BP:AoA, the Anemois can act as a mobile repair plateform. Having a logistics ship also reduce the impact of being cut from supply lines.

Yeah, but on the other hand, that also means you can't attack the logistical base or the damaged ships. Which is one of the things that has made the Shivans so hard to beat, and the GTVA has adopted Shivan doctrine wholesale in the mod in question.

And we never saw more than 2 desties operating in the nebula at the same time. Which coincides with the number of desties the tevs sent in Sol without previous logistical support at the beginning of the war. I think we can base the node bottleneckness on that.

We know a minimum of three destroyers were operating in the nebula at the appearance of the first Sathanas; your wing was recovered by the Memphis, the Psamtik was destroyed, and the Aquitaine hadn't yet gotten out of the nebula a few missions later.

Similarly, the GTVA had a minimum of four destroyers on station in the Nebula during their planned attack on the Sathanas during Speaking In Tongues.

Try again.

Which aren't mobile. Is the GTVA actually going to build 2-3 of these in DS just for the Sol operation? They're pretty huge last I checked.

It's pretty obvious they can be redeployed as necessary, as the tech description says they set up some in Capella and that front wasn't live for more than few months. Also don't trust how campaigns show them, with the ship through the middle; the many extensions are where docking is meant. One Ganymede can service many ships at a time; they don't need that many.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2011, 04:50:24 pm by NGTM-1R »
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Offline Kolgena

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Re: Question about jump nodes
1. They probably gambled that it was more worth it to have 100% of your ships on the front line, and easily maintainable to 100%, instead of debating whether it's really worth it to send home a 81% Deimos to top off its health.


2. Plot becomes more interesting if Wargods are allowed to win something for a change. Also, having the mobile base in Sol itself is insurance in case the GTVA lose the node.


So yeah, the conservative approach would have been to sit the Anemois in DS. But I guess GTVA was too STEELE to wait for ships to take an hour or so on a trip to and from DS. Remember with WiH warfare, battles last like, 10 minutes, so an hour is actually quite a bit of time.


Quote from: NGTM-1R
It's pretty obvious they can be redeployed as necessary, as the tech description says they set up some in Capella and that front wasn't live for more than few months. Also don't trust how campaigns show them, with the ship through the middle; the many extensions are where docking is meant. One Ganymede can service many ships at a time; they don't need that many.

Thanks, I had forgot about that. I still think it makes sense that the GTVA would still prefer Anemois to stationary Ganymede rings though, since they're there, better, and sort of a "hey, why not"

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Question about jump nodes
They also have mining and manufacturing capabilities IIRC. The ability to make new fighters in system when you're up against a logistically crippled enemy such as the UEF cannot be underestimated. Instead of having to send your front line destoryer to Delta Serpentis to restock on fighters, replacement fighters and pilots can come to you.

Its probably very expensive fuel wise to ferry everything back and forth from DS

Being able to make a pit stop, replace some armor plating, repair some turrets, stock up on fuel, and jump out again is probably quite vital to a shock group like Serkr

We don't actually know how long the transit between Sol and DS takes, or if it's even the same all the time. An hour might not be so bad, but losing a warship asset for hours or days is potentially crippling to an offense

Scattered freighter groups are easy targets


 

Offline Black Wolf

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Re: Question about jump nodes
I think "Losistic Ships" are a gross, but forgivable simplification of the whole issue. They made a certain amount of sense in AoA (kinda required for the plot as it worked out, and justifiable in an initial invasion force), but the idea that
a) the GTVA needs them to run the war effort when they control a 100% secure area within (conservatively) an hour from the front lines and
b) that one big ship is more practical than a multitude of smaller, more specialized ships to do every kind of logistical task, including refuelling, resupplying of everything from fuel and munitions to food and toilet paper, and large scale repairs is, well, pretty ridiculous. Even if the latter were true for whatever reason, as evidenced by WiH, they're way to valuable to the enemy to give them any chance at destroying/capturing them

However, as also evidenced by WiH, the missions where you capture this ship are fun, and that's far and away more important than any fridge logic issues regarding the Anemoi generally
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Scattered freighter groups are easy targets

In an environment where everything is subject to overwhelming surprise attack without warning, dispersal is probably the best and most sound defense.
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Offline headdie

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Scattered freighter groups are easy targets

In an environment where everything is subject to overwhelming surprise attack without warning, dispersal is probably the best and most sound defense.

better to be more likely to loose small numbers here and there than risk loosing significant numbers in one go
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Offline LoneKnight

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Re: Question about jump nodes
...not to mention some meh :v-old: mission design choices.

If anyone here plays ANY videogames, you'd know that reason sometimes has to take a seat while story does its thing. Any laws that :v-old: could have established (or that we agree on) are essentially malleable. This doesn't prove or disprove any of the theories, it just means that they had to happen that way. 
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