Author Topic: Question about jump nodes  (Read 7120 times)

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Question about jump nodes
I was merely stating that FS canon implies that distance DOES matter for a jump

wat

No. It doesn't. Anywhere. Cite a source for that statement now.
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Offline Scotty

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Re: Question about jump nodes
I was merely stating that FS canon implies that distance DOES matter for a jump

wat

No. It doesn't. Anywhere. Cite a source for that statement now.

He almost did, but his evidence makes a better argument for "Hurr durr, navicomputers suck balls" than it did for distance.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Drogoth makes good points.


Why does it sometimes take minutes for support to arrive and sometimes seconds? Nowhere in canon did we have confirmation that in-system subspace jumps have no range or any kind of perational limit.
If anything, the gravity wells of planets, moons and similar object would turn jumping tin oa far more complicated matter, so going from point A to point B is a system may very well require multiple jumps.

If there really is no limit to subspace jumping, then FS and BP make little sense, in the way their military operations go. The GTVA could just jump it's entire fleet right above Earth and it's de-facto game over for the UAF (threat of orbital bombardment).
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Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Question about jump nodes
The "We need jump nodes" argument is pretty strong in terms of a distance limit.. if anything, we know that standard jumps can't literally take you as far as you want or jump nodes would be useless.
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Offline FelixJim

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Re: Question about jump nodes
The "We need jump nodes" argument is pretty strong in terms of a distance limit.. if anything, we know that standard jumps can't literally take you as far as you want or jump nodes would be useless.
I thought you just needed the more stable jump nodes if you wanted to hop between gravity wells? Or have I just made that up?
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Intrasystem jumps only work in the presence of a large centralized gravity field, like a star's.  You can't cross interstellar space with them, so that's where nodes come in.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Question about jump nodes
The GTVA could just jump it's entire fleet right above Earth and it's de-facto game over for the UAF (threat of orbital bombardment).

You apparently missed the part where the senior GTVA military officer defected and told them that wasn't actually going to happen because the GTVA couldn't afford to **** up the infrastructure that badly.
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Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Intrasystem jumps only work in the presence of a large centralized gravity field, like a star's.  You can't cross interstellar space with them, so that's where nodes come in.

That's as much conjecture as the rest of it.. sounds plausible.. but don't state it as canon fact...
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: Question about jump nodes
I'll continue to do so, because it's straight out of the FS2 tech room entry on subspace. :p

Quote
First, an intrasystem jump can occur between two points in a star system. Most small, space-faring vessels are equipped with motivators capable of these short jumps. The presence of an intense gravitational field is required, prohibiting travel beyond the boundaries of a star system.

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Question about jump nodes
FINE! :doubt:

More seriously... oops...  :lol:
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Offline Drogoth

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Re: Question about jump nodes
I was merely stating that FS canon implies that distance DOES matter for a jump

wat

No. It doesn't. Anywhere. Cite a source for that statement now.

Notice that I said 'implies' not 'states'. I already posted quite a bit of evidence for why that is implied, see my post above,

I was merely stating that FS canon implies that distance DOES matter for a jump

wat

No. It doesn't. Anywhere. Cite a source for that statement now.

He almost did, but his evidence makes a better argument for "Hurr durr, navicomputers suck balls" than it did for distance.

I suppose it could be interpreted that way, but I don't buy that navcoms suck that hard. I did also mention the Carthage/Dashor as well as the Prophecy, which were all able to make pinpoint accurate jumps.

Additional evidence for non-crappy navcoms are: 
the Galatea arriving in good position in La Routa Della Fortuna
the Mecross defending the PVD Hope against the SC Thunder,
The Sathanas that destroyed the Colly (the sath arrived in firing position)
fighters in general,
GTC Orff in Small deadly space
The Psamtik in the attack on the NTC Impervious and that other cruiser that i dont remember
The Vasudan cruiser and corvette that attacked the iceni, etc, etc.

All of these ships arrived on station where there needed to be. None of them showed up 9 clicks out of effective range (Taurus) or 22 clicks out (Bastion), and I don't buy that it was just luck.

As such, I still think the evidence I listed in the other post, + this stuff, shows there's a limit on jump distance, or perhaps at certain distances jumps become inaccurate.

In that case, there is 'max' jump range and 'effective jump range' which, as this is all just extrapolating from events without a clear yes or no, I think is entirely possible.

Either way that backs up my original point. If the D.S. Jump node was near earth in BP, the tevs would've had a much easier time of winning, because in either scenario, (max range or.. effective range) distance matters.
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Offline Drogoth

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Re: Question about jump nodes
The GTVA could just jump it's entire fleet right above Earth and it's de-facto game over for the UAF (threat of orbital bombardment).

You apparently missed the part where the senior GTVA military officer defected and told them that wasn't actually going to happen because the GTVA couldn't afford to **** up the infrastructure that badly.

Which is why they bombed luna and blitzed the orbital infrastructure right? Besides, all they need is enough ships to blitz sweep first fleet off station, or to destroy them, and mission accomplished. They can hold a gun to the head of earth and force a settlement. And if there's no range on jumps then there's no reason for the Tevs to have not already done that. Pile ten or twelve destroyers and their escorts in for one massive push, steamroll opposition through sheer force of numbers, if it fails, whatever, jump drives will cycle fast enough for the ships to escape again.

Which is why I agree with Trashman, the military operations of the Tevs wouldnt make any sense if you could jump anywhere in system from anywhere else, why would they have not already done this? Why would they capture jupiter. Why not just repeatedly dump SSM's into earth orbit all day every day?
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Offline Timerlane

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Re: Question about jump nodes
BP canon indicates the presence of the Durga (and probably by extension, Vajradhara) uberbombers is the reason just dog-piling warships on Earth and Mars wouldn't work.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Question about jump nodes
Notice that I said 'implies' not 'states'. I already posted quite a bit of evidence for why that is implied, see my post above,

It doesn't imply anything of the sort. There are a half-dozen explanations I can come up with for any of your examples that do not require what you are saying, and worse yet, a half-dozen reasons why each of them makes even less sense with your stated reasoning then it does with most others. You're voodoo sharking now; the way you'd have it is stupider than not explaining it all.

If the range limit is true, then why are they jumping at such fringes of it? Why is it always trying to reach an object just beyond their jump range? Especially when they could simply cruise out at the end where they weren't being actively threatened to reach a single-jump no-cruise distance. Your theory grows ever more unlikely as an explanation the more it is examined.

Which is why they bombed luna and blitzed the orbital infrastructure right?

You want to arguing directly the Battuta's stated reasons, that's your problem. Hush.
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Offline Liberator

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Re: Question about jump nodes
BP canon indicates the presence of the Durga (and probably by extension, Vajradhara) uberbombers is the reason just dog-piling warships on Earth and Mars wouldn't work.
Unless that thing can one-shot anything up to a destie(and yes I read the tech entry), I just don't understand how 30 or 40 bombers could possibly be considered enough of a threat vs. an all in GTVA strikeforce consisting of all the ships we've seen fully stocked and staffed.  That's at least a dozen covettes, at least 3 destroyers, said destroyer's fighter complements and last, but not least, 20ish cruisers(?).  The math just doesn't work out unless those Durga's are a)virtually unkillable by fighter weapons and b)packing a lot more wallop than a boa with 3 banks of Helios..

On topic:
Upon further consideration, I think we should consider the intra-system subspace drives to be like the FTL on the Galactica.  Range isn't the issue, a set of proper coordinates are.  Sure you can jump from one end of Pluto's orbit to the other for next to no cost, but if you don't know EXACTLY where you are coming out, you could come out 10 or 15% of the distance traveled off your mark.  Nodes are different, they're ends of a tunnel(sort of), so you don't have to know your coordinates exactly.
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Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Question about jump nodes
After having found this in Pawns :
Quote
Not a problem, Wargods. We tracked her exit vector - that experimental drive doesn't have the range to take her back to Jupiter.
I have revised my posture toward BP canon regarding jump drives. My theory is this :
- Technically, range is involved in the jump procedure.
- It's been very long (probably since the T-V war or before) that we master the subspace technology well enough to direct enough energy output in our drives to cross an entire star system from end to end in a single jump, so intra-system distance has not been a concern since then.
- The Carthage's secondary jump drive is experimental, and plugged on a ship that wasn't designed for that. As such, it's probably limited by several factors, including the power output it can receive. Which explains the above statement.
- New sprint jump drives such as the ones equipped on the Atreus and Serkr probably don't suffer this limitation, being a generation ahead and equipped on ships with a much better power output.


In general (out of BPverse), I agree with Liberator's idea : navigation coordinates are the thing that matter in term of intra-system jump and accuracy of the jump, since power output isn't a concern anymore.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Question about jump nodes
The GTVA could just jump it's entire fleet right above Earth and it's de-facto game over for the UAF (threat of orbital bombardment).

You apparently missed the part where the senior GTVA military officer defected and told them that wasn't actually going to happen because the GTVA couldn't afford to **** up the infrastructure that badly.

They don't have to. The GTVA fleet is larger than the UAF fleet. Jump is as close to Earth as possible. Now the UAF have the problem, since Earth would be behind the GTVA fleet and nay miss shot = "uups. Did we jsut blew up Sidney/Moscow/NY?"

Not to mention once can easly overpower the enemy in any specific point.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: Question about jump nodes
BP canon indicates the presence of the Durga (and probably by extension, Vajradhara) uberbombers is the reason just dog-piling warships on Earth and Mars wouldn't work.

Not good enough reason.
Those bombers have to be launched, cross the distance, get a lock, fire and so on...
In that time a single destroyer can level several cities. And this is even if the destroyer jumps in close to the bombers.
If he jumps in on the other side of the planet..the ship has even more time to unleash the pain.

And another factor for having a s***load of ships attack en masse, is that you cna pulverize an enemy before he can react. 3 destroyers jumping in right next to a station can  destroy it before the bombers can even launch.
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Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Question about jump nodes
You're basically saying (while double-posting) that BP canon is bull****. Fine by you. It's still BP canon. Deal with it.
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Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

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MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
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MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
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MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
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Offline Liberator

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Re: Question about jump nodes
What he's saying is that, from a known tactical standpoint, 3 squadrons of bombers, no matter how potent the bombers are, are not sufficient reason to hold off from making things real in Earth orbit.  BP canon not withstanding, none of most of us have seen a single Durga jump in and kill a destroyer before her defenders can engage and obliterate it and jump out again before being destroyed herself.  30 bombers vs. 3 destoyers worth of fighters are 30 dead bombers, doesn't matter how tough.
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