[Aesaar]

Could definitely see Khatvangas being equipped on Tev warships.

[-Norbert-]

There is of course a chance that some UEF crews are taken into GTVA service as a show of goodwill and first step toward healing the rift. Those would be the natural selection for any UEF ship kept in service (of course mixed in with GTVA crews, of course each ship would need to have more GTVA than UEF personel just to be save).
That would certainly mitigate the issue of lacking experience, in part because the UEF people already know how to operate the ships and in part because the GTVA crew can learn directly from them, thus speeding up the learning process.

[Scotty]

That sounds expensive, annoying, and short-term.

[SaltyWaffles]

That sounds expensive, annoying, and short-term.

But worth it, for that short term. I think you're undervaluing the cultural/diplomatic/political benefits, here.

Plus, on the off chance of a Shivan incursion, its unique capabilities/loadout may prove to be particularly useful in some niche/role. They could even be relatively powerful ships that are expendable in ways that others aren't. Like the GTD Bastion in FS2, or the P-40's at Pearl Harbor (obsolete, but still very capable of defense/interception in sufficient numbers, while you phase them out for newer fighters).

[-Norbert-]

One way or the other, the GTVA needs to integrate the UEF citizens into their own population and way of thinking.
They can't just let them be as they are forever, or the Ubuntu ideology will sooner or later spread to GTVA terretory (of which the high council is scared big time). Neither can they just take all children away from their parents and indoctrinate them at a young age (apart from the moral side of things, there are also just too many families in Sol for that to be a realistic option).

The GTVA needs to show everyone that they did those horrible deed because it was the only way to preserve Humanity out in a hostile universe and any other way would have only led into the abyss.
I don't believe that this is the truth, or that the high council necessarily thinks so either, but it's certainly what they need to get across to the citizens, if they ever want to knit the two halfs of mankind back together.

Allowing a limited number of former UEF citizens to serve in the GTVA military and thus help preserving mankind, to me, seems a good way to do exactly that. Even a very small number of ex-UEF crew could turn out to be a very powerfull symbol (or propaganda tool, if you will) for the new unity, if handled right.

[Klaustrophobia]

I don't think that fence can ever be mended.  Short of some kind of sci-fi brainwashing device, you'll never convince a former enemy "we were doing it for your own good" when you don't even believe that yourself.  The admiral that was supposed to lead the strike and half of the force under him defected.  What does that say to the UEF about the GTVA's justification?  The best they can hope for now is the same as what happened with the Vasudans.  A truce of necessity, that can slowly grow back to a strong alliance. 

[qwadtep]

The 14th went through hell and saw things that would have shaken anyone's faith. You didn't see anyone defecting when the Temeraire jumped to Mars in the alternate universe as planned.

I don't think integration is that much of a problem. Ubuntu is a philosophy of understanding and the common man will probably accept the GTVA's position much more readily than the Elders once the they blew up a freaking star! propaganda starts flowing.

[-Norbert-]

A truce of necessity, that can slowly grow back to a strong alliance.

Which still makes a show of goodwill (or rather many) as necessary as for a true mending.
If only half the former enemy faction wants you dead and gone, rather than all of them, it's far easier to make a lasting truce.

And I wasn't taking about the short term anyway. If the rift will ever be healed completely, it will take more than a century I guess (probably more like 3+). People have a long memory for injustice and with the increase in Human livespan in the BP setting, comes the increase in how long a grudge can survive.

[CT27]

There is of course a chance that some UEF crews are taken into GTVA service as a show of goodwill and first step toward healing the rift. Those would be the natural selection for any UEF ship kept in service (of course mixed in with GTVA crews, of course each ship would need to have more GTVA than UEF personel just to be save).
That would certainly mitigate the issue of lacking experience, in part because the UEF people already know how to operate the ships and in part because the GTVA crew can learn directly from them, thus speeding up the learning process.

I think there's also economics to consider.  I assume, in a GTVA victory, that the GTVA would take control of a lot of Sol's military...thereby putting a lot of Sol people out of work.  Letting some former UEF military people serve in the GTVA military would partially alleviate unemployment problems.  I would guess there would be those who would rather potentially fight the Shivans alongside their former enemy rather than have their family starve.

[Scotty]

The GTVA wants integration (and the destruction of Ubuntu, as much as can be completed) not outright occupation.  I highly doubt they would disbar all active or reserve military personnel from serving, and doubt even more that the subject population is even large enough to be a blip.  If we go with a ballpark five thousand figure for crewman per frigate, double it for destroyers, and half it for cruisers, That'd be approximately 400,000 crewmen.  In the Sol system of the late 2300s, that's more than likely a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the system-wide population.  Hell, that's a fraction of a percent of just the Earth now.  I have a hard time believing that the active shipboard personnel of the UEF is much over one million at the largest, and that's even pushing it (merchant marine excluded).  If every single one of those crewman were barred from further service, and assuming a workforce of approximately half the population (for today, which is also probably low), the increase in global unemployment would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.02%.  In Sol of the future, it would be even less than that.

This all assumes that the GTVA wouldn't lay off shipyard workers, installation workers, and the like, because I have a hard time imagining a more stupid thing for them to do.

[General Battuta]

This isn't a judgment of your analysis one way or another, but bear in mind that only a tiny fraction of the military is active duty, deployed, and actually shipboard.

[QuakeIV]

This isn't a judgment of your analysis one way or another, but bear in mind that only a tiny fraction of the military is active duty, deployed, and actually shipboard.

The ground troops would probably be pretty numerous for instance.

[Mars]

The GTVA wants integration (and the destruction of Ubuntu, as much as can be completed) not outright occupation.  I highly doubt they would disbar all active or reserve military personnel from serving, and doubt even more that the subject population is even large enough to be a blip.  If we go with a ballpark five thousand figure for crewman per frigate, double it for destroyers, and half it for cruisers, That'd be approximately 400,000 crewmen.  In the Sol system of the late 2300s, that's more than likely a fraction of a fraction of a percent of the system-wide population.  Hell, that's a fraction of a percent of just the Earth now.  I have a hard time believing that the active shipboard personnel of the UEF is much over one million at the largest, and that's even pushing it (merchant marine excluded).  If every single one of those crewman were barred from further service, and assuming a workforce of approximately half the population (for today, which is also probably low), the increase in global unemployment would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.02%.  In Sol of the future, it would be even less than that.

This all assumes that the GTVA wouldn't lay off shipyard workers, installation workers, and the like, because I have a hard time imagining a more stupid thing for them to do.

I estimated 1.1 million UEF crew, not including space stations and the like.

[Aardwolf]

So, the GTVA has these two big issues it's worried about:

1. Economy
2. Shivans / UEF ideology will make us weak



Well, this doesn't seem so hard!

1. UEF Kadmos get. The GTVA must have something they could give the UEF in exchange.
2. Declare a cease fire immediately. Seriously, did they miss the whole "great destroyers" memo?




Waiiiiiiiit... ****, they did miss the memo.

FS1 Alpha 1: got the memo (second half of FS1 Endgame cutscene), but he's in Sol. Possibly became one of the first Fedayeen.
Bosch: didn't get the memo (at least not until the Shivans boarded the Iceni), and any insight he got at that point wouldn't have made it back to the GTVA.
Bei Jr. and Sr.: got the memo (Universal Truth), but defected to the UEF.

[Drogoth]

Shouldnt Bei Jr's report have been in the Orestes' data banks?

Also I always kind of just assumed Alpha 1 was spouting some theories.

[crizza]

In BP the FS1 Alpha1 was nagari sensetive, so it wasn't not just some wild theory...

[Aardwolf]

Shouldnt Bei Jr's report have been in the Orestes' data banks?

I was referring specifically to the dialog between "Shiva" and "Vishnu"

Also, what crizza said.

That said, I don't entirely care for BP [re]interpreting the Ancients cutscenes as "audiovisual hallucinations" ... I preferred to think those were snippets from the Ancients' records, and that the fact that they were shown before the Ancients reveal was just for storytelling / so that they could have some cinematics between missions.

[General Battuta]

Part of the fun of the FreeSpace canon is the room for multiple interpretations. BP took them one way, no reason they couldn't go another in another story.

[-Norbert-]

Seriously, did they miss the whole "great destroyers" memo?

There is a difference between not getting the momo and not believing it.
I think there is sufficient doubt about the source of the memo (both in terms of truthfullness and motive) to make the message itself dubious enough to not just swollow it as fact without further prove.
The behaviour of the Shivans at the end of the second incursion (blowing up Capella instead of pushing on to eraticate the GTVA) hints at far more going on than just "destroying the destroyers".
And in my opinion it's also not exactly serving the balance between the two mirror universes to allow the Sanctuary to acompany the 14th battlegroup back to their own universe.

[NGTM-1R]

The ground troops would probably be pretty numerous for instance.

Doing what? The UEF doesn't have much need for an army. I don't doubt they have one, but suggesting it's larger than their navy when it doesn't have a clearly defined role or need for it like the navy does seems shakey.

The support structure for the UEF's space forces almost certainly outnumbers ship crew by several times, though.