Author Topic: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance  (Read 39647 times)

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Offline CT27

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
I agree that keeping all capital vessels of the UEF in service would be a logistical super-challenge for the GTVA.

However, I don't think it would be a huge challenge to start producing some of the UEF's better secondary armaments.

Besides replacing the Stiletto with the Paveway, what other secondary weapons of the UEF would the GTVA be wise to keep?

 

Offline The E

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Slammers.
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I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline niffiwan

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
It's that simple. The GTVA simply don't need the UEF warships for anything else than scrap, not on the short term, not on the long term.

History suggests that there at least one use for them - targets for testing new weapons on :)
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Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Agreed, but that's nothing you couldn't do with some large pieces of scrap metal too, so my point still stands ! :p

And yes for the secondaries, although not necessarily in their current form, the technologies and concepts will most likely be salvaged and re-adapted to GTVA needs. The GTVA has demonstrated with the Kayser, shields and beam canons that it is very adept at adapting other technologies to its needs.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 05:53:33 am by MatthTheGeek »
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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Well, testing on an actual ship gives you information about the degree and nature of structural damage taken that you don't get from a lump of steel.
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Offline headdie

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Well, testing on an actual ship gives you information about the degree and nature of structural damage taken that you don't get from a lump of steel.

i am sure they can find a suitable Fenris or Aten for that
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
I agree that keeping all capital vessels of the UEF in service would be a logistical super-challenge for the GTVA.

However, I don't think it would be a huge challenge to start producing some of the UEF's better secondary armaments.

Besides replacing the Stiletto with the Paveway, what other secondary weapons of the UEF would the GTVA be wise to keep?

Slammers has been said.  Darts aren't bad.

For primaries, the Cavalier is a beast of a weapon (and energy based).  Maybe UX Accelerators (ammo is a big concern).  Warship weapons, the Khatvanga (Point Defense Turret).


MatthTheGeek: Scrapping is a waste, and given that UEF metallurgy is probably fairly different, it might not even be worth doing.  Stripping them of anything useful, sure, but actual scrapping is expensive, and the scrap might not be worth enough to make it worthwhile.  It would probably be more economical and more practical to just leave the ships floating somewhere in case you find a use for them.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 10:46:12 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline The E

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Also, consider this: Unlike Ships of today, which will rust and decay due to contact with corrosives if not maintained properly, a ship in space can be mothballed rather easily. Put up some sort of radiation shielding to stop the hull being irradiated by the sun, vent the atmosphere and put them in some stable orbit somewhere, then get them out again when you need the metal or have a plan to rebuild them.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Well if irradiation of the sun is such an issue, you can just dump it far behind Pluto's orbit. Pretty sure the radiation there is somewhat irrelevant.

 

Offline Black_Yoshi1230

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance

Slammers has been said.  Darts aren't bad.

For primaries, the Cavalier is a beast of a weapon (and energy based).  Maybe UX Accelerators (ammo is a big concern).  Warship weapons, the Khatvanga (Point Defense Turret).


The Rapier and Cavalier are 2nd-generation Prometheus derivatives, I guess the Alliance may understand how they might benefit from those weapons (comparing what techniques the Feds used to make them, compared to the GTW-5 Prometheus S).

We haven't seen UX Accelerators in action (but I'm guessing they're not going to consider it because the Maxim already suits anti-hull needs, unless they consider how most of the UEF ballistics have a hell of an anti-shield punch, don't take my word for it)... and god forbid I keep insisting (despite not in any official missions), the Sidhe. Come on. It murders bombers frighteningly efficiently.


Back to the original intention of the topic (dear god):

I guess Bastion Epsilon will make an appearance in a Fedayeen-related mission. Then they get told in some way about project you-know-what. Then the Court Jester shows up in his own ship to mock the Elders and the Emperor shows up in a behind-the-Alliance's-back Vasudany Colossus. (And someone gets Kurtwood Smith to make another announcement of it.)
« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 11:20:56 am by Black_Yoshi1230 »
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Offline Apollo

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Maybe because a superdestroyer would probably cost as much and require as much time for construction as a standard destroyer and its battlegroup?  The Colossus took 20 years to build and the Vasudans were doing around half of the work.

Exactly. A superdestroyer is a bad idea because of the amount of time and money it takes to produce one.

Let me be clear: I have never once said that the GTVA should build a superdestroyer. I brought it up in one of my posts and then dismissed it because of its cost.

I don't think the GTVA has any particular need for the Solaris class, given the investment in R+D, planning, yard space, and actual work required. It doesn't fill a niche that's empty, and the effort involved might as well be used to build a new ship.

OK. You know better than me how much that would cost.

Aesaar, I apologize for being so thick about the Solaris. I was failing to consider anything you were saying, and I know how annoying that can be.

Anyway, I see this thread has moved away from our really long argument, which is probably a good thing.

So, on the current subject: Depending on how much power it drains, the UEF Heavy Turret might make a good replacement for the Terran Turret 2. It has good DPS (100 for shields and hulls) and enough speed to actually hit something, unlike its GTVA counterpart.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
It is actually a damn fine blob turret...but I suspect ships will be mounting fewer and fewer of those going forward. Turrets are getting more numerous and more specialized.

Maybe it'll find a niche in the civilian market!

 
Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Currently blobs and AAA are the only decent bomb interceptors on GTVA ships, so getting rid of them would be a bad idea until pulse turrets can be made more accurate, no?
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Offline Apollo

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Well, there is an accurate, anti-torpedo version of the TerPulse in WiH's table files. It does really crappy damage, though.
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
For good reason, given how it's used.

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
It is good at shooting down bombs.
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
That's the point.  IIRC, PDTerPulse is used on sentry gun/mines (not sure what they are), so if they were to be mounted of actual warships, you could probably fit quite a few of them on.

The TT2 is actually pretty good as far as blob turrets go.  I'm surprised it isn't used on more Capella-era warships.  Well, not from a gameplay POV.  Replacing a Deimos' or Aeolus' THTs with TT2s is a pretty big improvement in performance.

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Yeah, it's useful against warheads, and it does pretty good hull damage.The UEF Heavy Turret would be much more effective against fighters, but it fires slower than the TT2, so I guess it could be a worse choice for shooting down bombs.
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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance

Slammers has been said.  Darts aren't bad.

For primaries, the Cavalier is a beast of a weapon (and energy based).  Maybe UX Accelerators (ammo is a big concern).  Warship weapons, the Khatvanga (Point Defense Turret).


The Rapier and Cavalier are 2nd-generation Prometheus derivatives, I guess the Alliance may understand how they might benefit from those weapons (comparing what techniques the Feds used to make them, compared to the GTW-5 Prometheus S).

We haven't seen UX Accelerators in action (but I'm guessing they're not going to consider it because the Maxim already suits anti-hull needs, unless they consider how most of the UEF ballistics have a hell of an anti-shield punch, don't take my word for it)... and god forbid I keep insisting (despite not in any official missions), the Sidhe. Come on. It murders bombers frighteningly efficiently.


Yes, the Sidhe is an excellent weapon in many regards. It's fantastic for dogfighting and almost ideal for interceptors--since they can close the distance better than any others, they can get within effective range of a lumbering wing of Shivan bombers and kill all four of them in a matter of seconds with primaries alone. It would make the Draco actually practical (beyond the stupid ROF penalty for using linked primary banks being removed in the ai-profile table), as that extra chunk of speed would actually translate to better interception performance. The Sidhe also does considerable hull damage against smaller warships, as well.

As for the Maul, Rapier, Scalpel, and Cavalier:

Maul--yes, if practical. It's more energy efficient than the Prom S, does more damage, and is less technologically sophisticated in some ways (no advanced fire control system).

Rapier--depends on how much it costs, compared to the Prom S or Kayser. It's not nearly as demanding in terms of energy, and it's more flexible/versatile than the Kayser for sure. It doesn't have that great of damage, but it's basically a 4-damage increase over the Balor per shot, at the same rate of fire (though not cycled, which is good, as it makes it a better dogfight-oriented weapon from the Balor) with greater range and velocity, at the cost of modestly higher energy consumption.

Scalpel--Not sure, but probably yes if practical cost-wise. It's got the advantage of being an effective shield breaker as well. However, the energy consumption on that thing is monstrous.

Cavalier--if not too expensive, then god yes. It's got very reasonable energy consumption, great range, acceptable rate of fire, and unparalleled hitting power on a per-shot basis (for a conventional energy weapon). I once tried equipping Cavaliers onto both banks of a Perseus, and it wrecks Shivan craft (save perhaps the Dragon, who is still ludicrously hard to hit with anything).

Now, the UX Accelerator: I know ammo is an obvious logistical concern, but what about restricting it to elite squadron and SOC use? It's performance is exceptional--it takes less than one of its 4-shot bursts to kill even heavy fighters or bombers, has a very fast velocity and excellent range, great hull and shield damage (can't remember about subsys damage), and tolerable energy consumption. It doesn't need to be mounted in large numbers to be devastatingly powerful--one or two is still very effective.

As for the missiles in general--several of the UEF missiles are basically more refined versions of GTVA ones, with a few exceptions. The Harpoon is probably better suited for use against Shivans, where the extra punch is more useful than the slightly faster lock-time. The Trebuchet and the Grimler is sort of a toss-up: extra damage might make the Grimler more useful for taking out the tough Shivan heavy bomers and heavy fighters more efficiently, and the range reduction isn't as crucial these days due to a more modern (with a better general speed) fighter force. Importantly, the Grimler has a faster refire delay, which means you can lock-and-fire several targets in a row without any delays beyond the aspect lock, whereas the Trebuchet has a refire delay that lasts a few seconds past the aspect lock time.

The Dirk is probably a good choice as a replacement for the Hornet, as it is a better weapon for attacking bombers than the Hornet (which is largely garbage against fighters in all but the best hands); the big range boost helps a lot. It also provides a decent anti-turret weapon that can significantly outrange the SAAA.

The Shrike versus the EMP Adv...seriously, there isn't even a contest. At all. The EMP Adv was completely impractical from the beginning (sort of like the Infyrno in that you have a very narrow margin of error between successfully deploying it within range of the enemy AND yourself). It is very short ranged, slow, and is almost guaranteed to get yourself caught in the blast.

Dart is a good missile overall, but nowhere near the Tornado. After the Trebuchet, the Tornado is undoubtedly the GTVA's best missile. To be honest, if it was cheaper to just produce more of the Tornado than replace Hornets with Dirks, it'd make the Dirk just plain obsolete.

Hellfire versus Tempest--actually, I don't really know about this one. I'll have to go and look at the stats again. The Tempest always feels more effective, but it seems like it shouldn't be.

Currently blobs and AAA are the only decent bomb interceptors on GTVA ships, so getting rid of them would be a bad idea until pulse turrets can be made more accurate, no?

For the AAA, yeah. But the blobs? I'm skeptical. Pulse turrets are actually pretty decent against warheads; though somewhat inaccurate, they have good range, good rate of fire, much better velocity, and each shot does substantial damage. So even if TT2's are a bit better at warhead intercept, STerPulse's can do (roughly) almost as well on top of good point defense against fighters/bombers and a light secondary anti-ship armament.

If you want a dedicated, effective warhead interceptor, why not just use a Maxim? Not only does it have much better range and velocity (and vastly better ROF), it doubles as a light anti-ship weapon and modest anti-turret/subsystem one, too. As far as energy requirements go, even if you have to lower the ROF to be roughly equal, it's still worth it easily. 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 12:10:48 pm by SaltyWaffles »
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Re: Possible evidence of Fedayeen-Medjay Alliance
Because it's ostensibly ammunition-based?
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.