[karajorma]

Well, I think there's something wrong with accepting someone as self-proclaimed part of a group in general if their belief system doesn't line up.... But in modern america whee everyone is a 'christian' this becomes much more difficult. If they are clearly a bunch of loonies, then I'll consider them pretty definitely not christian. I can't believe one thing and then call myself a Buddhist and expect you all to play along with it.

But how does their belief not line up? Seems like you're basing them not being Christians on a very small subset of their belief system. In terms of the most important beliefs, they're probably indistinguishable from people you would call Christian.

So if these guys aren't Christians, who else isn't? Mormons? Jehovah's witnesses? Catholics? Where do you draw the line?

[Luis Dias]

He can draw the line wherever he wants, however we should also be aware that he does not have any zilch of an authority to do so for others (this has been a traditional problem inside major religions, the discrediting of variations of the same religion, which can take the form of excomunnication and so on). If they call themselves christians and if they seem to be honest about their intentions, then they are so, period. That's almost like a brute fact. If they are following Christ in a completely different manner than other people, then that's just another fact.

To me, that's somewhat besides the point. What matters is that people become aware of what happens when you start taking woo too seriously and disregard actual scientific medicine: you let your own children die and then lose the rights to be parents of your other children.

[mjn.mixael]

I've already said it's a complicated issue that divides the world and so you guys have, naturally, asked me to give a blanket statement that would work in all cases. Sounds like you are trying to argue me into a corner.

However, I will say this. I'll start asking questions when people inside the religion start dying or getting hurt in ways not related to outside forces or martyrdom. In general that's when religions start becoming cults.

EDIT: To note, that's what the authorities have done with this family.

[Luis Dias]

You're right about that, I don't think you should be "argued into a corner" here. There's always magical woo inside every major religion (even budhism), but as long as most people do not live by it* and think that by any reason they should neglect basic concerns and duties because their deity will provide for them, it's absolutely fine and should be absolutely tolerated and respected**.


* I mean things like exorcism, magical healing, and so on;

** By respected I do not mean being free from occasional derision and comedy, as anything else in life.

[General Battuta]

You're right about that, I don't think you should be "argued into a corner" here. There's always magical woo inside every major religion (even budhism)

What about Battutism :colbert:

[An4ximandros]

 We train rigorously to meet and kill the phantom enemy, Sire.

[Luis Dias]

Battutism is just intolerable.

[Apollo]

You're right about that, I don't think you should be "argued into a corner" here. There's always magical woo inside every major religion (even budhism)

What about Battutism :colbert:

And the Mighty Battuta spake all these words, saying,

I am thy Doctor-General, which have engineered the greatest feats of writing and game design in all the history of man. I command thee to observe my laws to the best of they ability, and any who dost not follow them shall be struck down with malaria.

• Thou shalt place no men before the Doctor-General.
• Thou shalt not make unto thee any shoddy imitations and treat them as the Doctor-General.
• Thou shalt not take the name of thy Holy Doctor in vain; for the Doctor-General will not grant him passage to his libraries.
• Remember the day of the Doctor-General's inauguration, for it is a holy day.
• Treat thy brother scholars with respect.
• An eye for an eye is the Holy Doctor's way.
• Asexuality is the Holy Doctor's way.
• Honesty is also the Holy Doctor's way.
• Thou shalt always keep a thesaurus at hand to better comprehend the Doctor-General's terrifying vocabulary.
• Thou shall not covet the work of any brother scholar, lest thou suffer from a malaria of unspeakable potency and duration.

[yuezhi]

you can't preach in here, this is Nukelear land!

[General Battuta]

Somebody better redact #7

[Apollo]

Somebody better redact #7

The Doctor-General has spoken. Thy will be done.

[Luis Dias]

And the Mighty Battuta spake all these words, saying,

I am thy Doctor-General, which have engineered the greatest feats of writing and game design in all the history of man. I command thee to observe my laws to the best of they ability, and any who dost not follow them shall be struck down with malaria.

• Thou shalt place no men before the Doctor-General.
• Thou shalt not make unto thee any shoddy imitations and treat them as the Doctor-General.
• Thou shalt not take the name of thy Holy Doctor in vain; for the Doctor-General will not grant him passage to his libraries.
• Remember the day of the Doctor-General's inauguration, for it is a holy day.
• Treat thy brother scholars with respect.
• An eye for an eye is the Holy Doctor's way.
• Asexuality is the Holy Doctor's way.
• Honesty is also the Holy Doctor's way.
• Thou shalt always keep a thesaurus at hand to better comprehend the Doctor-General's terrifying vocabulary.
• Thou shall not covet the work of any brother scholar, lest thou suffer from a malaria of unspeakable potency and duration.

As I said, intolerable.

[deathfun]

Somebody better redact #7

The Doctor-General has spoken. Thy will be done.

Anyone else think about Cave Story here?

[yuezhi]

the what?

[Lorric]

*confused*

[BloodEagle]

Somebody better redact #7

The Doctor-General has spoken. Thy will be done.

Anyone else think about Cave Story here?

Not until you pointed it out. 

[S-99]

No award when they had 9 children. You can lose a couple and still outproduce the rest of us. Hell, having 7 children end up in care where other people have to look after them is actually a viable reproductive strategy.

I disagree. It's not the middle ages or something where survival is cut throat and nasty to get by on needing to have a bunch of kids to make sure your blood line survives (nor are they living in a third world country).

It's the modern day, where you can have 20 kids and maintain all of them in good health. Your pocket book and tax payers won't like you. But, if half your brood die out due to parental stupidity (when we live in a day and age where we can do a lot for sick people in hospitals), you'll probably end up in jail on several charges for a long time with one of the lesser being negligence.

Darwin award because stupidity is leading to ineffectual parenting.

[Luis Dias]

Well they can "outproduce" the rest of us, but sure as hell I'm betting 90% of those survivors are probably ending up being full blown atheists for sheer fear of survival. "Wait a second mom, I heard this prayer **** before, I'm gonna try my luck with the medic, mkay?"

[deathfun]

Well they can "outproduce" the rest of us, but sure as hell I'm betting 90% of those survivors are probably ending up being full blown atheists for sheer fear of survival. "Wait a second mom, I heard this prayer **** before, I'm gonna try my luck with the medic, mkay?"

Medics are not doctors
Doctors fix you
Medics comfort you while you die
/Red vs Blue reference

[karajorma]

I disagree. It's not the middle ages or something where survival is cut throat and nasty to get by on needing to have a bunch of kids to make sure your blood line survives (nor are they living in a third world country).

It's the modern day, where you can have 20 kids and maintain all of them in good health. Your pocket book and tax payers won't like you. But, if half your brood die out due to parental stupidity (when we live in a day and age where we can do a lot for sick people in hospitals), you'll probably end up in jail on several charges for a long time with one of the lesser being negligence.

Darwin award because stupidity is leading to ineffectual parenting.

You don't seem to understand how the Darwin Award works. The Darwin Award is granted for stupidity that results in you removing yourself from the gene pool, either by death or giving yourself the inability to have children. It's not granted to people who caused someone else's death through their stupidity. If some people have another definition, it's not the one used by the people who came up with the idea of having a Darwin Award.

But even if you don't use the official definition, even if we strip the Darwin Award down to its bare minimum, you're still wrong. The basic point of the Darwin Award is that their stupidity is meant to result in them having less children and thereby result in a selection pressure against them and people like them. As time goes on, they weed themselves out of the human race and their stupid genes are not passed on. If they still have 7 children, their genes are passed on. Whatever selection pressure exists from them going to jail for being bad parents is going to be fairly small in comparison to the sheer number of children they have.

Arguing that what they've done is not a viable strategy is like arguing that cuckoos must be extinct cause they are also bad parents.