Author Topic: America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!  (Read 47083 times)

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Offline Zeronet

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
We could actually discuss the MBTs instead of just posting pics of them :rolleyes:
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Offline LtNarol

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet
We could actually discuss the MBTs instead of just posting pics of them :rolleyes:
ummm....lets see....they're big, they're bad, and they kick @$$?

  

Offline Zeronet

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Actually smaller tanks could be better. The British Army is testing a plastic tank, which is a lot lighter than most and they are experimenting with Chameleon features and armor that repairs itself.

http://www.qinetiq.com/markets/defence/future_concepts_and_technologies/case_study_plastic_tank/index.asp
« Last Edit: July 11, 2002, 05:35:50 pm by 419 »
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Offline Stryke 9

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!

 

Offline Grey Wolf

America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
OK, I have a few comments to say on the current subject.

We'll go for Vietnam first. We have one side saying that it was intentional killing of civvies, one side saying collateral. Here's a question for both sides: How can you tell who is a civvie and who is an enemy fighter when they're both attacking you? In Vietnam, they ingnored the villages filled with women, old men, and children. Then those same women, old men, and children attacked the US fighters. Upon the first shot, they are legal targets.

Next, Israel. I have a slightly different view here. On one side (Palestine), we have people committing acts of terrorism. On the other side (Israel), we have the military oppressing an entire people on the basis of the actions of a minority. It's a messy situation, and I'm not going to take sides there, I'm just saying this: There is no clear-cut, black-and-white group of people to blame there.

In conclusion, I'm going to leave you with a quote:
Quote
War is hell.


EDIT: Damn, took too long typing my reply and the subject changed.....
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Offline CODEDOG ND

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Well how about this then? :D


•AN-94 ABAKAN

This post cold-war weapon of revolutionary design may have a superficial resemblance to the AK-74, and indeed it uses the same ammunition and magazine. The function of the weapon, however, is something completely new and different. What makes this rifle unique is that although its fully automatic rate of fire is only 600 rounds-per-minute, it has a 2 round burst setting that fires at  1,800 rpm. This, combined with a "delayed blowback" system, allows both rounds in the 2rnd burst to be fired before any recoil is felt. Needless to say this results in a drastic improvement in accuracy. Although officially adopted by the Russian military as its main battle rifle, it is doubtful that it will replace the AK-74 in mass production any time soon.




•GROZA

The Groza Assault Rifle is a highly adaptable rifle designed to fulfill many different roles for the Russian Interior Ministry Special Forces troops. Its modular design allows for 4 different configurations:  assault rifle, assault carbine, silenced assault rifle, and assault rifle/40mm grenade launcher combo. All necessary parts for modifying the weapon come in one kit. These four configurations all fire 9.39mm SP-6 ammunition, but a variant called the "Groza-1" was developed for the Spetsnaz which fires the AK-47 7.62x39mm ammunition.



•9A-91

The 9A-91 is a truly unique weapon. Though its dimensions are smaller than most sub-machine guns, it delivers the full power of an assault rifle. The 9x39mm subsonic ammunition it fires is capable of penetrating most body armor, and is designed to do maximum damage to "soft targets". It's short barrel does have a negative effect on long-range accuracy, but in a CQB operation it is an extremely deadly and effective weapon.





•FN-FAL PARA

This rifle of Belgian design is both an esthetic and functional classic, and has been one of the most widely used battle rifles of the 20th century. Its countless variants have been adopted by over 70 countries, including Britain, Australia, Canada, and Germany. It has some shortcomings,   including high recoil, weight, and length. But it more than makes up for these with extreme reliability, functionality, and ease of use. One of its more innovative features is an adjustable gas regulator, which allows an operator to direct more or less gas into the system, in order to balance less recoil with better function under adverse climate conditions. It fires NATO standard 7.62mm ammunition, and is fed by a 20 round magazine. The PARA variant features a folding stock.



•BIZON

The Bizon was designed in part by the legendary Victor Kalashnikov, and has for years served as the standard sub-machinegun for the Russian military and tactical units. Its design is based on the AK-47, but its action is blowback instead of gas operated. Its distinguishing characteristic is the 64 round helical magazine (that's a spiral in laymen’s terms). It is very stable even at a fully-automatic rate of fire, and  has preformed effectively in the field, particularly in Spetsnaz and Russian Special Forces operations, including the ongoing conflict in Chechnya where much of the fighting has been CQB.




•PKM


The PK general purpose machine gun was originally developed in the 1950's as a replacement to WW2 era soviet machine guns. During the Cold War, the PK-series machine guns were widely distributed all over the world and used in many conflicts. Modifications made the weapon lighter and more accurate, and the PKM variant entered service in 1969. The PKM machine gun fires conventional, armor-piercing, incendiary, and tracer bullets. The PKM machine gun is simple in design, easy to operate and maintain. Many believe it to be unrivalled in the world in terms of reliability and efficiency which has been proven by many years of their employment in all climatic conditions.




•M60

The M60 universal machine gun entered service with the US military in 1950, and its initial design borrowed heavily on WW2 era German machine guns. The M60 has seen heavy action since its inception, particularly in the Vietnam War. Although many soldiers have sworn by "the pig" as it is known, others cite a variety of reliability and fragility problems, particularly with the firing pin. There have even been lawsuits filed against its designers over design flaws which resulted in injury or death. The E3 variant includes a lighter barrel, but this means that the barrel can only fire 100 rounds at a rapid rate before the barrel must be changed or cooled. These and other problems have led to the US military's recent adoption of the 7.62mm M240D as a replacement for the M60.




•PSG-1

The Heckler & Koch PSG-1 sniper rifle was designed with imput from some of the most successful German snipers from WW2, as well as the British 22nd SAS, the German GSGN, and various other elite special operations and police units. The PSG-1 is known as a "counter-sniper" rifle and is used primarily by antiterrorist units and law-enforcement special-weapons teams. Its superior design and reliability, along with its elegant appearance, make the PSG-1 the  world standard for long-range tactical rifles. The rifle comes standard with a Hensoldt 6X fixed-power scope with illuminated reticule. It also features an adjustable butt plate and cheek rest, which allow for a personalized gun fit for almost any physique.


•M-98

The Barrett Firearms Company have long been recognized as the world leader in heavy caliber semi-automatic rifles. One of their latest creations is the Model 98, designed around the receiver of a traditional bolt action rifle with its heavy receiver. Unlike traditional bolt action rifles, however, the M98 uses a tapped-gas engine. A very efficient muzzle brake comes standard on the weapon, and helps to effectively reduce recoil. The entire stock is made from a fiber glass-reinforced polymer, which results in a relatively lightweight weapon. It is fed from a 10 round box magazine, and fires a .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge.
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Offline CP5670

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Quote
Although I admit this thread is in a relative shambles based on its original intent :)


That's pretty common around here though. :D

Quote
Fair enought but remember who trained members of Al Quaeda and the Taliban to fight the Soviets.


Exactly, that was indeed a very stupid move on the US's part, but at least we should try to correct the mistake now instead of leaving it that way. :p

And when you get down to the fundamentals, today's world really makes no distinction between "civilian" and "military" targets if they are equal parts of a social structure.

 

Offline vyper

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Quote
Originally posted by Zeronet
Actually smaller tanks could be better. The British Army is testing a plastic tank, which is a lot lighter than most and they are experimenting with Chameleon features and armor that repairs itself.

http://www.qinetiq.com/markets/defence/future_concepts_and_technologies/case_study_plastic_tank/index.asp


This is so cool! Imagine the speed! Imagine the possibilities! LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE!!! :D

*hits self with mallet*

Right, sorry about that...
It is pretty cool though.
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Offline Sandwich

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
No, it's just true and irrefutable that the Palestinians aren't getting slaughtered wholesale in Jordan, and that they aren't fighting a war of liberation against jingoistic, racist invaders who have driven them from their land and impoverished their people in Jordan.

Jordan may not want tons of refugees, but all in all it's Israel that's killed thousands of Palestinian civilians, not Jordan.


:rolleyes: Slaughtered wholesale would be accurate if we were, well, slaughtering them wholesale. But we're not, so don't spout crap, m'kay?

Oh, and - "...killed thousands of Palestinian civilians..."? Where the heck do you get your news from, Radio Al-Aksa? Simple equation for ya:

Human being + gun pointed at me + bullets flying at me = immediate threat. Civillian or not is like asking what the color nine smells like - totally irrelevant question. If I see a person with a bomb strapped to him/her, or with a gun shooting at innoccent bystanders, I will shoot him/her dead, regardless of whether he/she was a civillian, "undercover" millitary, senior citizen or child: THREAT.

Now when Palestinian civillians take up arms and start shooting at soldiers, they will be shot back at. Period. And I don't understand why it's so hard for the world to grasp such a simple concept.

EDIT: Almost forgot - Israel's Merkava Mk. 4 MBT is the best desert MBT. No question. :D
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Stryke 9

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Nobody likes my pretty machine gun emplacement...:(

 

Offline Styxx

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich
EDIT: Almost forgot - Israel's Merkava Mk. 4 MBT is the best desert MBT. No question. :D


Bah, that's just because development of the Osório was discontinued... :D
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Offline Sandwich

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Quote
Originally posted by Styxx


Bah, that's just because development of the Osório was discontinued... :D


Hmmm... never heard of it before, but dang! is it ugly! :p
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Styxx

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Quote
Originally posted by sandwich
Hmmm... never heard of it before, but dang! is it ugly! :p


Ugly?! Come on! :D

http://www.inventabrasil.hpg.ig.com.br/osorio.htm

The first prototypes were being viewed as potentially the best MBTs of their time (back in 1988, I think), but the US virtually put the company to bankrupcy by imposing the M1 to all potential clients of the Osório. The Brazilian military industry kinda died after the 80's... We don't really have the need for a large military, and with the US pushing their own products (through threats of economic embargos and such) stops our industries from having a good international market.
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Offline CODEDOG ND

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
I can speak only spanish, but I could figure enough of the words to understand it.  Looked sweet, too bad they aren't going to make it.  :(

I like they way it looks.  And it has pretty good range, looks like it has more range than the Soviet tanks.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2002, 07:44:08 pm by 251 »
It's a fact.  Stupid people have stupid children.  If you are stupid, don't have sex.  If you insist on having sex.  Have sex with animals.  If you have sex with an animal.  Make sure the animal is smarter than you are.  Just encase of some biological fluke you and the animal have offspring, they won't be as stupid as you are.   One more thing.  Don't assume the animal is protected.  If the animal has a condom, or if female some interuterian device, insist they wear it.  Help stop this mindless mindlessness.  Keep your stupidty to yourself.  This message was brought to you by the Committee of Concerned Citizens that are Smarter than You are.

 

Offline Stryke 9

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
So... what you're saying is that they've got all these nice, relatively new tanks lying around... that nobody wants... and they can't seem to sell... hmm? ;7

Think they'll go down to $700? 'S all I've got...

 

Offline Styxx

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
So... what you're saying is that they've got all these nice, relatively new tanks lying around... that nobody wants... and they can't seem to sell... hmm? ;7

Think they'll go down to $700? 'S all I've got...


Well, it's not that nobody want them... It's more that the US doesn't want them to sell the tanks. ;)
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Offline Stryke 9

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Either case... nobody else is gonna buy them, so they might be more reasonably minded towards the price tag...:D

 

Offline Top Gun

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Quote
Originally posted by Grey Wolf 2009


We'll go for Vietnam first. We have one side saying that it was intentional killing of civvies, one side saying collateral. Here's a question for both sides: How can you tell who is a civvie and who is an enemy fighter when they're both attacking you? In Vietnam, they ingnored the villages filled with women, old men, and children. Then those same women, old men, and children attacked the US fighters. Upon the first shot, they are legal targets.

Well in that case what the hell was the US doing there when the Majority of the people wanted communism? what right did they have to invade? Now we can bring up the subject of imperialism because I think that war fitted the criteria for it quite nicely.

 

Offline Sandwich

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
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Originally posted by Styxx


Ugly?! Come on! :D



Compared to the Merkava, it's ugly. :D

http://www.airshow.mod.gov.il/eurosatory/merkava.htm







She even flies..... :D

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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Kitsune

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America, Happy Fourth, now wake up and smell the roses!
Quote
She even flies...


Man, when that thing comes down I do NOT want to be nearby...  Just feel sorry for the little critters who may be living in burrows around there.  Groundhog pancakes...
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