Author Topic: OT - Right up your alley, CP!  (Read 5534 times)

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Offline Sandwich

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OT - Right up your alley, CP!
Ladies and Germs, I present: The Million Dollar Math Problem! Let the quasi-algebraical quantum hyperstringing begin! :lol: :wakka: :wakka: :lol:
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Blue Lion

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OT - Right up your alley, CP!
And we never saw CP again.....

 

Offline CP5670

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Oh this! The Riemann Hypothesis is probably the most famous and most important unsolved math problem today; I have heard of it many, many times, and have done some very basic investigations into it. Basically, the object is to prove why exactly all of the zeta function's non-trivial zeros (i.e. non-integral - the negative even numbers are also zeros) seem to lie on the critical line y=½+ix. Seems that the non-differentiable points (the points in question that equal zero) reach some sort of minimum for Re(x)=½, since values close to that, both higher and lower, do not reach zero. Extremely fascinating stuff; I might go into this field professionally later on. I would consider it a great achievement of humanity if anyone is able to prove this. :nod:

BTW the Riemann zeta function z(a) is defined as the following:

 ¥
å 1/xª
x=1

It has values for all numbers in the complex plane except for a vertical pole at a=1. This function has many, many cool properties and next to the gamma and hypergeometric pFq functions, is probably the most important special function around.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2002, 04:18:55 pm by 296 »

 

Offline LtNarol

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OT - Right up your alley, CP!
Quote
Originally posted by Blue Lion
And we never saw CP again.....
already disproven, such a terrible hypothesis :p

(j/k btw)

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Basically, the object is to prove why exactly all of the zeta function's non-trivial zeros......{incomprehensible mathematical stuff here}


Oh, thaaaat! That's easy: God made it that way. :D
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline CP5670

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OT - Right up your alley, CP!
Sure, but why? :p

 

Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Quote
Originally posted by sandwich


Oh, thaaaat! That's easy: God made it that way. :D


No I didn't :D

 j/k here, people. no need to go ballistic.

Carry on with the incomprehensible mathstuff :)
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Offline Martinus

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Sure, but why? :p


He wanted to give you something to do. He likes maths people too you know. :)

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Sure, but why? :p



Oh, come on - if He made everything relatively easy to solve/comprehend, what would all of the scientists do, twiddle their thumbs? (hmmm, interesting mental picture...)
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline CP5670

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Yes, that is what I mean; let's find out why this hypothesis is true! :p :D

Here is something that the NYTimes article linked from there says: :D (G.H. Hardy was one of the experts in this field and one of my favorite mathematicians)

Quote
Hardy, wrote his biographer, Constance Reid, was convinced "that God — with whom he waged a very personal war — would not let Hardy die with such glory."

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Yes, that is what I mean; let's find out why this hypothesis is true! :p :D

Here is something that the NYTimes article linked from there says: :D (G.H. Hardy was one of the experts in this field and one of my favorite mathematicians)

 


hehehe :)
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline CP5670

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OT - Right up your alley, CP!
sandwich asked that I put a few screens up, so here's what the function looks like:



x is going from 0 to 5 here. Looks a bit like the 1/x function here. Notice the pole at x=1.



The negative portion of the above graph. x varies from -5 to 0, and the y value has been restricted between -0.01 and 0.03 to show the zeros at each of the even negatives.



This is a plot of the function along the line x=1/2 and a variable imaginary portion. (x goes from 0 to 30i and y goes from -1.5 to 1.5) The important zeros can be seen here; note that they appear to be irrational.



This is a 3D plot of z=|z(x+iy)|, with x going from 1 to 4 and y from 0 to 40. The depressions in the hills correspond to the x=1/2 line; the value of the function goes down to zero in each of those ditch-like areas. The x=1 pole is the black thing in the corner.


It is fairly easy to compute values for all positive even integers and negative odd and even integers - some examples are the following:

z(-2)=0
z(-1)=-1/12
z(0)=-1/2
z(2)=p^2/6
z(4)=p^4/90
z(6)=p^6/945
z(½+i 14.134725200497455...)=0 (this is one of those nontrivial zeros)

Unfortunately, analyzing anything other than these integers (excluding positive odds, which are also hard) is much more difficult.

And yes, I spend all day and night with this stuff. :D
« Last Edit: July 09, 2002, 06:06:25 pm by 296 »

 

Offline Sandwich

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*shakes head*

Well, I guess I'm a visually-oriented person, considering that I "understood" those graphs far better and faster than I ever would have studying all that Greek stuff. :D
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Galemp

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I know! I know the answer! The answer is forty-two!

*thinks*

Damn. Desn't work. Oh well, time to continue searching...
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Offline Blue Lion

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Quote
Originally posted by GalacticEmperor
I know! I know the answer! The answer is forty-two!
 



 You never know, it could be

 

Offline Dark_4ce

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OT - Right up your alley, CP!
You know, I watched a program on these people who solved these unsolvable math problems. Like that dude who solved Fermat's Last Theorem. It took him 7-8 years, tens of thousands of sheets of paper, the works of a Japanese mathematician who blew his brains out after giving up on his own crazy theories, and locking himself up in his room for the whole time. And in the end, he figured out an equation. He said it felt like eternal bliss, but I doubt his wife would say the same. :D

But the funniest by far is the story of that one guy who wrote 600 pages of equations to PROVE that 2+2=4. Damn. Some people just have a lot of time on their hands. I suggest we all just forget about math, and leave it to the calculators. :D
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Offline TheCelestialOne

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Ok, for all you non-math guys/girls
I got a riddle that all of you (with a bit of experience) can solve. Its not CP's level of mathematical expertise :rolleyes: .

How can you prove that 1+1 equals 2?

(The awser is not in 1 line...;7)
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Offline Borealis

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
x is going from 0 to 5 here. Looks a bit like the 1/x function here. Notice the pole at x=1.


[color=sky blue]Its been a while since I've done any math not related to chemistry or population studies so I'm a bit rusty.  Am I correct in assuming it does the paradoxical thing of approaching in reducing increments as it gets closer to x=o so it never actually reaches the axis?  [/color]


Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
This is a plot of the function along the line x=1/2 and a variable imaginary portion. (x goes from 0 to 30i and y goes from -1.5 to 1.5) The important zeros can be seen here; note that they appear to be irrational.


[color=sky blue]I've never seen anything like that.  The oscillations are completely asymetrical then it nosedives.  I think they may have found the God they were waging a personal war with...j/k[/color]

 

Quote
Originally posted by sandwich
*shakes head*

Well, I guess I'm a visually-oriented person, considering that I "understood" those graphs far better and faster than I ever would have studying all that Greek stuff. :D


[color=sky blue]You're not alone.  My gut reaction to that was to want to attempt graphing it for a better understanding but then I saw with great relief that graphs had already been posted.  It wouldn't have been quite as pretty as those.[/color]  :doh: :D
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Offline Stunaep

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well, thank god,now I finally have something to read when I have trouble sleeping.

well, time to stop spamming.
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Offline Styxx

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Quote
Originally posted by Dark_4ce
You know, I watched a program on these people who solved these unsolvable math problems. Like that dude who solved Fermat's Last Theorem. It took him 7-8 years, tens of thousands of sheets of paper, the works of a Japanese mathematician who blew his brains out after giving up on his own crazy theories, and locking himself up in his room for the whole time. And in the end, he figured out an equation. He said it felt like eternal bliss, but I doubt his wife would say the same. :D


The thing they don't know is, the solution to Fermat's Last Theorem is either much simpler than that, or Fermat didn't really know the answer in the first place. The guy that solved it probably tried to work all his way around it using the constructs he knew to be proven (some even devised much after Fermat's death), while Fermat certainly realized a very simple answer for it, or was just putting senseless thoughts on paper. Mathematicians have a strong tendency to ignore common sense, you know. ;)

And I have a much better (and useful, in my opinion) problem for you to solve: Is P = NP? :)
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