[General Battuta]

Also, all this 'walk before you can run' business, I think you're building up FRED as harder than it really is. My missions in BP2 were my first pieces of FRED work and I can say without any particular ego that they were fairly cutting-edge at the time. Same goes for Spoon and WoD.

[Lorric]

Also, all this 'walk before you can run' business, I think you're building up FRED as harder than it really is. My missions in BP2 were my first pieces of FRED work and I can say without any particular ego that they were fairly cutting-edge at the time. Same goes for Spoon and WoD.

Well if it was easy, everyone would be turning out cutting edge stuff and WoD style total conversions.

[General Battuta]

Not at all. The hard part of FRED is sitting down and doing it. The systems required to make complex missions aren't tough to learn as you put a little time into it, look at existing work, and have someone to ask questions.

The reason people don't turn out more material is because they don't have the time and the dedication.

[Lorric]

Not at all. The hard part of FRED is sitting down and doing it. The systems required to make complex missions aren't tough to learn as you put a little time into it, look at existing work, and have someone to ask questions.

The reason people don't turn out more material is because they don't have the time and the dedication.

How long did it take you?

[General Battuta]

BP2's dev cycle (after we tossed out the alpha) was 18 months. It was a team effort, but the FRED work proper was done by two people. I think Spoon's development time was similar.

[Lorric]

BP2's dev cycle (after we tossed out the alpha) was 18 months. It was a team effort, but the FRED work proper was done by two people. I think Spoon's development time was similar.

Thanks.

I think I'm kind of barking up the wrong tree here though. I was thinking to find out if the learning process was similar in time to mine. And if it was considerably faster for you then I'd be able to say that it comes easier to you than me, which I've always suspected. And if not, then I'd be surprised.

But it doesn't really matter I suppose. I'll go back to the post before.

Not at all. The hard part of FRED is sitting down and doing it. The systems required to make complex missions aren't tough to learn as you put a little time into it, look at existing work, and have someone to ask questions.

The reason people don't turn out more material is because they don't have the time and the dedication.

For me it's kind of the other way around, I'm good at staying on task once I get started. But I can still get stalled for a long time when I can't figure something out. You say "take a little time" what does that mean? It can take me like well over an hour to get a simple SEXP to work properly. The first time. Once I know how to do it, then I can repeat it as often as I want. So the idea of something complex...

I don't have someone to ask questions unless you count the forum itself. The last time i asked questions, I did get help, but it felt like it was being given grudgingly (not always, at times). I've basically had to figure it all out alone. There isn't someone I can just chat with about FRED. Though I have since noticed others seem to get help without that side, and there's been a lot of talk here in this thread. Though this thread wasn't about FREDding to begin with.

FREDding, time goes by faster for me than anything I've ever done in my life. It's shocking to me at times how fast time is obliterated when I'm FREDding. This isn't because it's super fun, though it does have it's rewards, but (I think) because I'm giving it everything I've got.

[Luis Dias]

Just do it man, stop letting fear take the best of you.

[Lorric]

Just do it man, stop letting fear take the best of you.

I'm not scared. I was dismayed at one point in the thread. But I'll almost certainly be "pulling the trigger" once I've finished watching the Ace Combat 5 Let's Play.

[Gregster2k]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet but Ace Combat Zero is also a great watch as well, since it only has ONE wingman with you, who asks you questions which you can answer with YES or NO, and it should be noted that not answering at all is treated by the game as an "answer."

ACZ also features a "reputation system" which is based on what targets you destroy.

Destroying EVERYTHING that is destroyable pulls your reputation more towards being a bloodthirsty money-seeking mercenary who wants money and power above all else.  NPCs in the game, including your wingmen, will comment on this (in fact enemy pilots will scream at you about what a jerk you are).  Destroying only mission-critical targets and sparing wounded enemies will pull your reputation more towards being a "knight" who values getting things done without unnecessary bloodshed.  Striking a perfect balance between the two gets you a reputation of "soldier" who does what they deem is necessary to get the job done.

Your wingman's behavior will also subtly change to match your own.  The more bloodthirsty you act, the more bloodthirsty THEY act...

[Mobius]

You forgot the enemy aces! They also change depending on your level (mercenary, soldier or knight) and at least three playthroughs are needed in order to face them all.

A similar system could easily be implemented in FreeSpace using campaign variables. Has anything like this ever been attempted?

PS
In ACZ, the ultimate enemy is always the same regardless of your level, and his code name is... MOBIUS!!1!1

[Phantom Hoover]

Having a few small scenes which are determined by the player's actions does go a long way towards making your story feel reactive.

[General Battuta]

Yeah, while I generally think large scale branching isn't worth the time unless you go full Alpha Protocol (the traditional win path/fail path is particularly egregious), I think having in-mission decisions as a mode of player expression can be really valuable.

[Lorric]

Yeah, while I generally think large scale branching isn't worth the time unless you go full Alpha Protocol (the traditional win path/fail path is particularly egregious), I think having in-mission decisions as a mode of player expression can be really valuable.

What is Alpha Protocol?

I am indeed going to split to a winning path and losing path, with splits within those. I hope the campaign editor can handle that. However, there isn't going to be any point in the campaign where you're screwed, so it's not a true losing path. Unless you've failed. If you still have a mission in front of you, you can win the campaign.

[The E]

What is Alpha Protocol?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Protocol

It's a third-person stealth shooter RPG by Obsidian. It's main feature is that every decision you make in it, be it in dialogue or in gameplay, is important in determining how other characters react to you, which in turn influences how the story plays out. It's arguably the game that is most reactive to what the player does; Unfortunately, its actual gameplay mechanics (aka the shooty bits) are quite clunky, and bugs are everywhere.

[Lorric]

There are no briefing icons in my missions.

Lepanto has been doing some beta testing for me. He mentioned the briefing icons. Basically what I said is:

"Ah the briefing. It seems like so much work for so little gain. I also don’t like giving away ship types and things in the briefing. Most briefings you have no need of that stuff to understand them. I tried making those briefings when I first started out and found it extremely annoying. They’re so much harder to make than what they should be, it’s ridiculous. I’m surprised everyone else seems to bother with them."

But I also said I might try again to implement them. And I did.

Either things have gotten easier since FRED 3.6.12, or more likely I just didn't get my head around it the first time somehow, but I've tried it again, and it's really quite easy. I've updated two missions already. All will be brought up to the standard. I'd likely never have gotten around to it otherwise. No wonder everyone has them. I've been marvelling basically forever that everyone puts up with the difficulty I thought came with these briefings. For one thing, I didn't think you could move the icons. Imagine trying to make a briefing where you can't move the icons and you'll have some idea of why I didn't want to bother with them.

And this concludes another episode of why Lorric does not think FREDding is easy and is scared of things getting too complicated. But at least the briefing icons are in fact easy and quite quick too. So if anyone else happened to get put off by the briefing icons, there you go.

[mjn.mixael]

I'm surprised you were going to try and go without briefings... that's prime real estate for story/character development and a perfect place to set mission expectations and then later crush them for massive damage.

[Lorric]

I'm surprised you were going to try and go without briefings... that's prime real estate for story/character development and a perfect place to set mission expectations and then later crush them for massive damage.

It's the icons I didn't have. I still had the text.

[Mobius]

I like this approach or, at least, the philosophy behind it. Sometimes briefings give away too many details about missions, like the ship classes used by the enemy, and turn out to be "prophetic", if you pardon the term.

Typical situation: the Shivans are believed to attack an allied ship, and the ship icons used during the briefing clearly indicate that there will be Nephilims and Manticores as the bulk of the Shivan attack force. How can the GTVA know that in advance?

[MatthTheGeek]

There are things called "reconnaissance" and "long-range sensors". You probably never heard of them.

[NGTM-1R]

Typical situation: the Shivans are believed to attack an allied ship, and the ship icons used during the briefing clearly indicate that there will be Nephilims and Manticores as the bulk of the Shivan attack force. How can the GTVA know that in advance?

That would be what setting the briefing icons to "unknown" would be for. Because you can do that. And while  didn't always remember to, to my amusement, the option is very much there to click on it and display a questionmark.

Hell, set it to display Sathanaseseseses on every icon if you want. Should give them a good scare.