Author Topic: SDn Sariel (WIP)  (Read 10250 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bryan See

  • Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
  • 210
  • Trying to redeem.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
While waiting for my SC Raguel hi-poly renovation to be finished by Betrayal, I've begun work on a Shivan battleshipdreadnaught, which is more or less inspired by a Ravana and a Moloch, but slightly bigger than a destroyer, although smaller than the Sathanas and Amritaya juggernauts; it is designed more than a match of the TBs Horizon and the Shivans' first battleship. The middle and front model parts seems to be fairly detailed. However, the rear part needs to be worked. I would do it myself, but I know using sub-division modelling to increase poly counts only make it inefficient (I'm sure Esarai and Betrayal will do it, with the latter finishes the Raguel first).

I haven't got a name for this Shivan battleship yet, but I can make a few guesses at the moment. In the meantime, you can vote for the best name above. The poll for the Shivan ship name will open for at least 30 days. Once the 30 days are over, I will pick the name with the highest votes gathered to formally name this model. It is now called the SBs Sariel, and there's no need for the poll anymore - so I deleted it.

The planned armanent is not known at the moment, but it will be armed with two BFReds, VLS torpedo launchers (capable of launching subspace/anti-cap torpedo strikes), missile batteries, and several deadly anti-capital and anti-fighter beam cannons. It is capable of making shock-jump attacks like the GTVA's Titan destroyer, and may be protected by a defensive shield similar to the Lucifer superdestroyer but weaker.


BTW, I think Woomeister and his Inferno team will like it so much that I hope this will be included in the second chapter of Inferno: Nostos :) Sorry for that. I'm joking really. It looks like a symmetrical and larger version of the Ravana with three arms (from my Raguel) and a middle section; all made by me. The rest are taken from the HTL Ravana model, flipped and stretched.

Update (July 12): It is now an original design, instead of relying on other meshes made by other people.

Update (August 5): Due to its size over a battleship, but smaller than a juggernaut, the Sariel is now a Dreadnaught, and hence, its designation, the SDn Sariel.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2014, 11:00:36 am by Bryan See »
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
FreeSpace: Reunited - Shattered Stars

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

 
Re: Shivan battleship WIP
Looks good so far, I definitely welcome any new Shivan ships that people develop. As for name, among the possibilies, the Sariel seems like a decent choice to me.
I'm all about getting the most out of games, so whenever I discover something very strange or push the limits, I upload them here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/JCDentonCZ

-----------------

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress to more pain."
- George Orwell

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Shivan battleship WIP
It's a good start, a good concept, but at this point, there is nothing in the model that actually sells its size. Take a look at the Sathanas HTLs, and how they break up the big shapes in order to give the impression of size and massiveness; While this is something that the texture has to do the heavy lifting on in many ways, the model has to do its part too; calling the front or the neck parts "fairly detailed" is premature at this juncture.

Also, and this is a more general note, expecting people to pick up and finish your models or use them in a campaign isn't a good way to build interest in your work. When you're saying " However, the rear part needs to be worked. I would do it myself, but I know using sub-division modelling to increase poly counts only make it inefficient (I'm sure Esarai and Betrayal will do it, with the latter finishes the Raguel first).", it can easily be interpreted as "I know there are issues that need to be worked out with this model, but I'm not even going to attempt to fix them myself", which leaves me at least with an unfavourable impression of you, your skills, and your work ethos.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is, don't just put things like "I'm sure Esarai and Betrayal will finish this" or "Woomeister will like this so much that it's sure to find a place in the next Inferno" in your posts when you have absolutely no idea whether any of these things are true. You don't know whether Esarai or Betrayal will have the time or interest to work on this. You have no idea whether there's room in whatever Woomeister is planning for Inferno for this ship.
I understand the desire to build excitement for your work. But let it build naturally, based purely on what you, and whoever you're actually and actively working with on the project can do, not based on what a dream team of people you wish to work with can do.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline 0rph3u5

  • 211
  • Someone should label the Future: Assembly Required
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Shivan battleship WIP
I can't shake the association with the SCv Bryn which has a visual style that makes it hard to integrate with other shivan ships ... but that is a common problem with user made shivan ships (1 2 3 4 5 )
"When you work with water, you have to know and respect it. When you labour to subdue it, you have to understand that one day it may rise up and turn all your labours into nothing. For what is water, which seeks to make all things level, which has no taste or colour of its own, but a liquid form of Nothing?" - Graham Swift, Waterland

"As you sought to steal a kingdom for yourself, so must you do again, a thousand times over. For a theft, a true theft, must be practiced to be earned." - The terms of Nyrissa's curse, Pathfinder: Kingmaker

"...because they are not Dragons."

 

Offline Lepanto

  • 210
  • Believes in Truth
    • Skype
Re: Shivan battleship WIP
I like the overall model so far, though I do agree that it needs more detailing. To keep the overall look of recent Shivan HTLs consistent, I'd advise basing your armor/greeble details on other recent Shivan HTLs, like Betrayal's Scylla.

Please, please, though, tone down your expectations of what other people are willing to do to help your own projects. If you want help from the community's more experienced modellers, then ask politely, but don't outright assume that other modellers will help you with their projects, or that people will use your stuff in their campaigns. Your Raguel shows that you've got the skills to make good Shivan models, but keep your expectations realistic.
"We have now reached the point where every goon with a grievance, every bitter bigot, merely has to place the prefix, 'I know this is not politically correct, but...' in front of the usual string of insults in order to be not just safe from criticism, but actually a card, a lad, even a hero. Conversely, to talk about poverty and inequality, to draw attention to the reality that discrimination and injustice are still facts of life, is to commit the sin of political correctness. Anti-PC has become the latest cover for creeps. It is a godsend for every curmudgeon and crank, from fascists to the merely smug."
Finian O'Toole, The Irish Times, 5 May 1994

Blue Planet: The Battle Captains: Missions starring the Admirals of BP: WiH
Frontlines 2334+2335: T-V War campaign
GVB Ammit: Vasudan strike bomber
Player-Controlled Capship Modding Tutorial

 

Offline Nyctaeus

  • Betrayal is his middle name
  • 211
  • Your local priest of cheeki breeki!
    • Minecraft
    • Exile
Re: Shivan battleship WIP
Especialy, when optimisation of the Raguel required redoing most of the oversmoothed and oversubdivided flat parts of the ship. Of course, arms and other details will remain the same, but I wish I could say the same thing about armored hull parts. Of course I will finish the Raguel, because I always finish what I started, but I will never take up similar job again, as this is unprofitable effort for me.

As for the Battleship, I like it's spiky, slender, shivan design but I think you should make something smaller, and requiring less skills. You need to practice and gain experiance, before You start working on serious project. Community will provide feedback for you, if you show some humility for people here and work you have to do.
Exile | Shadow Genesis | DA Profile | P3D Profile

Proud owner of NyctiShipyards. Remember - Nyx will fix it!

All of my assets including models, textures, skyboxes, effects may be used under standard CC BY-NC 4.0 license.

 

Offline Bryan See

  • Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
  • 210
  • Trying to redeem.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Shivan battleship WIP
It's a good start, a good concept, but at this point, there is nothing in the model that actually sells its size. Take a look at the Sathanas HTLs, and how they break up the big shapes in order to give the impression of size and massiveness; While this is something that the texture has to do the heavy lifting on in many ways, the model has to do its part too; calling the front or the neck parts "fairly detailed" is premature at this juncture.

Also, and this is a more general note, expecting people to pick up and finish your models or use them in a campaign isn't a good way to build interest in your work. When you're saying " However, the rear part needs to be worked. I would do it myself, but I know using sub-division modelling to increase poly counts only make it inefficient (I'm sure Esarai and Betrayal will do it, with the latter finishes the Raguel first).", it can easily be interpreted as "I know there are issues that need to be worked out with this model, but I'm not even going to attempt to fix them myself", which leaves me at least with an unfavourable impression of you, your skills, and your work ethos.
Basically, what I'm trying to say is, don't just put things like "I'm sure Esarai and Betrayal will finish this" or "Woomeister will like this so much that it's sure to find a place in the next Inferno" in your posts when you have absolutely no idea whether any of these things are true. You don't know whether Esarai or Betrayal will have the time or interest to work on this. You have no idea whether there's room in whatever Woomeister is planning for Inferno for this ship.
I understand the desire to build excitement for your work. But let it build naturally, based purely on what you, and whoever you're actually and actively working with on the project can do, not based on what a dream team of people you wish to work with can do.
I like the overall model so far, though I do agree that it needs more detailing. To keep the overall look of recent Shivan HTLs consistent, I'd advise basing your armor/greeble details on other recent Shivan HTLs, like Betrayal's Scylla.

Please, please, though, tone down your expectations of what other people are willing to do to help your own projects. If you want help from the community's more experienced modellers, then ask politely, but don't outright assume that other modellers will help you with their projects, or that people will use your stuff in their campaigns. Your Raguel shows that you've got the skills to make good Shivan models, but keep your expectations realistic.
Especialy, when optimisation of the Raguel required redoing most of the oversmoothed and oversubdivided flat parts of the ship. Of course, arms and other details will remain the same, but I wish I could say the same thing about armored hull parts. Of course I will finish the Raguel, because I always finish what I started, but I will never take up similar job again, as this is unprofitable effort for me.

As for the Battleship, I like it's spiky, slender, shivan design but I think you should make something smaller, and requiring less skills. You need to practice and gain experiance, before You start working on serious project. Community will provide feedback for you, if you show some humility for people here and work you have to do.
Thank you, The E, Lepanto and Betrayal. I appreciate your advices and feedbacks. I know this Battleship is spiky as with all Shivan vessels, but I can agree that I should make something smaller, and requiring less skills. This include my GTS Hygeia and the GTT Argo hi-poly upgrades for the FreeSpace Upgrade project's MediaVPs (both of them are long neglected).

As for the naming, I know Sariel will be the better name for the Shivan battleship, but I have yet to know about the other names at the moment.
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
FreeSpace: Reunited - Shattered Stars

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

 

Offline cahdoge

  • 26
  • Is a lubricated bug a butterfly?
Re: Shivan battleship WIP
The idea of the model is quite nice.

If you reduce the spikes at the rear by half or even more it would actually look shivan
Understanding do you me?

 

Offline crizza

  • 210
Re: Shivan battleship WIP
Stunning...has something... like a dragon, dunno^^
Check out my blog:

http://geo.schulzbert.de/

 

Offline Bryan See

  • Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
  • 210
  • Trying to redeem.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
I've updated my p3d just now. Looks like the stretched and symmetrical version of the Ravana right now - it is noted that the practice of modifying existing meshes is not new - Woomeister and his team did for the Inferno mod.
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
FreeSpace: Reunited - Shattered Stars

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

 

Offline NeonShivan

  • Previously known as BTA
  • 29
  • Air quotes are the best quotes.
This method of modeling iirc is indeed out of date and not used anymore, yet I've seen it been done in a similar manner for mods for different games (ex. Maelstrom for Sins of a Solar Empire), if done right and mixed with various meshes I'm sure you could create a reasonably good looking Shivan ship. So far in my opinion the battleship looks pretty decent, I'm interested in seeing a final product.
In German even the most beautiful love letter sounds like an execution order -Mito

(•_•)
 <)  )/
 /  \ All the Single Ladies

( •_•)
\(  (>
  /  \ All the Single Ladies

(•_•)
 <)  )/
 /  \  Oh Oh Oh

Author of Dusk Wars - A modification for Freespace 2.

 

Offline Nyctaeus

  • Betrayal is his middle name
  • 211
  • Your local priest of cheeki breeki!
    • Minecraft
    • Exile
Such a... Monster.

I like the idea od making it similar to Ravana. Just clean the mess with geometry, and remodel a few parts. Overall concept is good. It will be cool if you make it not look like kitabashed from few Ravana hulls.
Exile | Shadow Genesis | DA Profile | P3D Profile

Proud owner of NyctiShipyards. Remember - Nyx will fix it!

All of my assets including models, textures, skyboxes, effects may be used under standard CC BY-NC 4.0 license.

 

Offline cahdoge

  • 26
  • Is a lubricated bug a butterfly?
For me it looks like a disguised Rahvana, so i like the previous version with less spikes more.

The main problem with shivan ships is that they are looking very different but shivan.
Understanding do you me?

 

Offline Bryan See

  • Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
  • 210
  • Trying to redeem.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
I've updated the p3d. The front should be the flipped SuperRavana front section without any mesh overlapping from the previous mirroring, plus the details of the front's end. In addition to that, there are details on the middle section. As for the SuperRavana's rear section and more details on the middle sections (the arms holding beam cannons perhaps?), I need to take time to figure out.

Once the model's ready for texturing and conversion, I'll personally see it finally goes eating Terran, Vasudan and Ancient ships up for breakfast :)
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
FreeSpace: Reunited - Shattered Stars

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

 

Offline Nyctaeus

  • Betrayal is his middle name
  • 211
  • Your local priest of cheeki breeki!
    • Minecraft
    • Exile
Get your Bevel to work and start deleting faces inside the ship. Geometry of the ship is still messy as hell. Final result will be quite funny. Also I would consider deleting middle pair of rear small beams if I were You.
Exile | Shadow Genesis | DA Profile | P3D Profile

Proud owner of NyctiShipyards. Remember - Nyx will fix it!

All of my assets including models, textures, skyboxes, effects may be used under standard CC BY-NC 4.0 license.

 

Offline Bryan See

  • Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
  • 210
  • Trying to redeem.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Sariel p3d updated once more. All faces inside the ship are deleted already, I've in fact reworked. In addition, I've kit-bashed model parts from the unused HTL Sathanas mesh by bobbtman. Now it's more than just a SuperRavana, but a hybrid of a smaller Sathanas.
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
FreeSpace: Reunited - Shattered Stars

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
I think it's becoming something of its own! :yes:

The front is still too much like a Ravana though.

  

Offline Trivial Psychic

  • 212
  • Snoop Junkie
In my opinion, the neck needs to be slightly shorter and somewhat thicker, particularly on the underside where the underside where it meets up with the main body.  Perhaps have something like a smaller iteration of the neck itself, but inverted and atop the existing one.  As well, I would suggest smaller iterations of the dorsal crest where the neck connects to the body, but on the two ventral faces.  I might also suggest that the forward two ventral spikes on the main hull be more outward-canted and curving forward instead of back.  Next, the dorsal sections of the body are a bit bland at the moment.  I feel it could use some breaking up.  Also, the deleting of the fighter-bay pylons as given the aft hull a considerably narrower profile as compared to the "head", which doesn't feel right to me.
The Trivial Psychic Strikes Again!

 

Offline Bryan See

  • Has anyone really been far as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
  • 210
  • Trying to redeem.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
In my opinion, the neck needs to be slightly shorter and somewhat thicker, particularly on the underside where the underside where it meets up with the main body.  Perhaps have something like a smaller iteration of the neck itself, but inverted and atop the existing one.  As well, I would suggest smaller iterations of the dorsal crest where the neck connects to the body, but on the two ventral faces.  I might also suggest that the forward two ventral spikes on the main hull be more outward-canted and curving forward instead of back.  Next, the dorsal sections of the body are a bit bland at the moment.  I feel it could use some breaking up.  Also, the deleting of the fighter-bay pylons as given the aft hull a considerably narrower profile as compared to the "head", which doesn't feel right to me.
Okay, I take this as advice, but where do I go from there? Any images on where it needs to be improved? I'd like to see them ASAP.
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
FreeSpace: Reunited - Shattered Stars

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

 

Online Colonol Dekker

  • HLP is my mistress
  • 213
  • Aken Tigh Dekker
    • My old squad sub-domain
I approve this model :yes:

Your friendly Orestes tactical controller
GO GO DEKKER RANGERSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
President of the Scooby Doo Model Appreciation Society
The only good Zod is a dead Zod
NEWGROUNDS COMEDY GOLD, UPDATED DAILY
http://badges.steamprofile.com/profile/default/steam/76561198011784807.png