[Lt. Spanks]

I have been working very hard over the past week to complete the foundation of the campaign I am making, covering a war of unification set in the early 22nd century.
At first I was thinking that i would make it as canon as possible, as i felt that would be what was best to do, but i ran into a problem while brainstorming.

Freespace 2 ships are understandably not modeled for realism. They are modeled to look awesome, and make the player feel like they are flying something truly lethal and tell them "Hey... I can blow stuff up! This is fantastic!".
I had two choices when considering what kind of ships i was going to use for such an early time period.
Either create my very own boxy, boring, under textured models and replace that feel of piloting a truly great aircraft with, "Hey... I'm flying a box shooting cool weapons and its kinda cool." or, use ships that the community so generously provides. But in going with option two, I feel as if i don't truly capture that rawness and simplicity of early space combat that I have in my mind. It's not that I don't think my story is good enough to present it with such models, but it could just be so much better with some of the very high poly models I am looking at.

So, with this in mind, I decided to make it non-canon and use all of those cool ship designs and models that are at my fingertips. I have sort of created this alternate history from very near in our future up until the end of the 22nd century and i think the best way to express that and tell this story is to make it non-canon.

But not completely non-canon... I plan to delve very deeply into the political phenomena that helped to construct the GTA. Most of the political things I do might follow canon to the letter, but models and weapons probably won't, for instance there will most certainly be flak guns, as I think it's ridiculous that they wouldn't exist. You might see a heavy bomber that nobody would dream of seeing until post-Capella, because i think that Freespace ships are way too simple for their time. Some things will be canon, others won't be.

Your thoughts?

Thanks,
Spanks

[wardog300k]

Interesting...

[Black Wolf]

Everything that follows is purely my own opinion, so add all the usual caveats (It's your campaign, other people think differently etc. etc.)

Personally, I really dislike when campaigns do this sort of thing. As a bit of a Freespace purist, I guess, and someone who knows the canon pretty well, I find it jarring when I come across things that just don't fit. The changes that were made to the Great War setting were among the few problems I had with the otherwise superb Bem Cavalgar (in that case, messing about with the weapons available, particularly adding beams to the Shivans).

I guess I just think that there FS Universe, while not perfect, IMO does have a pretty sizable scope for storytelling without messing around with it too much. I'd you feel like you can't do what you want with FS, why do the quasi Freespace thing at all, when you could make your own backstory that would fit so much better, and can be made so much more flexible where your story needs it to be.

Anyway, that's how I feel. Others will certainly feel differently - I know for a fact that my feelings on Bem Cavalgar were far from universal, for example. But you did ask for thoughts.

[Lepanto]

Design-philosophy-wise, I'd say go for it. IMO, some archaic features of FS gameplay could use a reimagining.

Campaign-scope-wise, though, you may want to limit your ambitions. Trying to do a megaproject right out of the gate, with a large modelpack and lots of missions, will probably drain you of energy well before you can complete it. Maybe try out your idea with a limited minicampaign, and see how you (and HLP) like the universe and gameplay you come up with.

[Lt. Spanks]

Thanks for the feedback so far...

Posted by: Lepanto
« on: March 14, 2015, 07:14:02 pm » Insert Quote
Design-philosophy-wise, I'd say go for it. IMO, some archaic features of FS gameplay could use a reimagining.

Campaign-scope-wise, though, you may want to limit your ambitions. Trying to do a megaproject right out of the gate, with a large modelpack and lots of missions, will probably drain you of energy well before you can complete it. Maybe try out your idea with a limited minicampaign, and see how you (and HLP) like the universe and gameplay you come up with.

I do agree Lepanto, and I was considering doing this sort of mini-campaign/trailer thing to test the waters before i commit myself to a full campaign.

Posted by: Black Wolf
« on: March 14, 2015, 06:33:01 pm » Insert Quote
Personally, I really dislike when campaigns do this sort of thing. As a bit of a Freespace purist, I guess, and someone who knows the canon pretty well, I find it jarring when I come across things that just don't fit. The changes that were made to the Great War setting were among the few problems I had with the otherwise superb Bem Cavalgar (in that case, messing about with the weapons available, particularly adding beams to the Shivans).

And this is where my original problem persists. I feel like this era has remained so untouched because it is so difficult to produce without throwing away a little, or even a lot, of canon. No flak guns? No beams? No already present FS2 models? It is a little bit intimidating to work with such little technology and make the campaign something other than just two ships hammering at each other for fifteen minutes with little lasers while you fly around and blow up fighters.

[wardog300k]

You could increase turrets damage,speed or ROF,so it doesn't last fifteen minutes,or you could lower ships hull integrity,either way ypu'll have much faster ship to ship combat.

[procdrone]

Well. Im nofused with no flak guns too... Hey COME ON, we have them today! But yea low tech campaign is a bit hard to pull at. Maybe try to liven it up with few more capital ships? They are always fun to watch as they engage. FS1 fleet mainstay were cruisers, so hm...


And yea, go for a little one for the first time. Its hard to pull yourself together THAT long for completion of a standard campaign, without anyone's help.

[Lorric]

It wouldn't bother me personally. Wouldn't stop me from playing. And flak, yes, you could rationalise it with there simply wasn't a flak weapon worth putting on the capital ships at the time of FS1 compared to the other weapon choices.

This wouldn't be anything like as difficult to adapt to as say Battlestar Galactica having seen the original. I could not get into the new BG when it came out. Only years later when I tried again and made an effort to drop the associations with the old one and just treat it on its own merits for what it was did I manage to enjoy it.

Go all in with stripping away the associations to Freespace ships and weapons as possible. Change the names of the ships and weapons and give them techroom entries to wipe the Freespace associations away. I would even say don't be afraid to change the classes either. So you could have say a Zeus as a heavy fighter. Or use a dumbfire model for an aspect seeker weapon. Grab what you want and use it how you want. Make it yours and enjoy yourself!

[Lt. Spanks]

Posted by: wardog300k
« on: March 15, 2015, 09:46:28 am »

You could increase turrets damage,speed or ROF,so it doesn't last fifteen minutes,or you could lower ships hull integrity,either way you'll have much faster ship to ship combat.

That brings up something interesting... I don't want cap-ships too seem too indestructible, nor do I want them to get melted like butter when the bombers arrive... capital ships are capital ships for a reason, although capital ships are a very new concept in the late 22nd century. I guess I will have to find a good balance between how much damage capital ship turrets do, how much armor they have, how much damage bombs do... this is turning out to be a very ambitious project

[wardog300k]

Maybe you could have some pretty damn powerful anti-capital lasers,if you use regular hull integrity values,around 500 damage per shot should be good(36 hits would be needed to take out a Fenris),but make them unable to shoot fighters,and for AAA defense you could use standard Terran Turret and THT.

[Lt. Spanks]

Perhaps... perhaps...
Lots of those...

I'm hoping that by next weekend i will be able to post some sort of teaser... No missions, but it will have pre-war stuff, the combatants, and other cool information...

Thanks for all the awesome feedback!
-Spanks

[Droid803]

Another idea instead of "blocky" early ships would be perahsp to make cylindrical ones as bridging the gap between the current (read: 2015) cylindrical segmented space-station/rocket-like craft to the full-fledged space-cities like Orions (and to a lesser extent, even a Fenris).

I think it could be interesting to have a early interplanetary/interstellar "warships" like that carrying "fighters" strapped externally to the outside via only dockpoints, with the "line" ending up with something like the Flagship-class from Fractured Space (which can be pretty big but still has plenty of exposed "ship guts" because of its construction method) and then have the first real full-fledged fenris-like space cruiser appear which is by comparison big, bad, and nigh-invulnerable in comparison because it's actually like one (mostly) solid slab of metal. Would be pretty cool.

Just kind of going full stream of conciousness mode following a few of your comments in the first post.

Feel free to disregard.

[Lt. Spanks]

I do like that very much... the problem is i just don't have the modding, nor texturing experience for that. 
I wish I could be a model wizard and just take that picture and make a .pof of it. Looks so cool! 

[Droid803]

I didn't mean to that level of detail. I'd warrant you could make something look pretty decent just from a bunch of bevelled cylinders linked up with a few boxes/extrusions slapped on.

[The Dagger]

Well, SolCommand has some pretty good models that you might use. You'd have to convert them into FSO though.

[Lt. Spanks]

Thank you Dagger for the link this kind of stuff is exactly what I am looking for.
Is there any site that provides models such as this that simply need to be converted into FSO?

Other than the one you just gave me of course

[The Dagger]

You could try Blend Swap or Turbosquid but I don't know those much. Turbosquid has some free stuff but most is paid. I don't know any others. Good luck!

[Lepanto]

Modeling and related work are hard work and hard to learn (IMO), especially if you're new. You might be better off just using community-made ships for your first release, and maybe upgrading to custom assets at a later point.

[Mad Bomber]

It wouldn't bother me personally. Wouldn't stop me from playing. And flak, yes, you could rationalise it with there simply wasn't a flak weapon worth putting on the capital ships at the time of FS1 compared to the other weapon choices.

I think of it this way: Logistics were so incredibly strained by the T-V War that no amount of shipping ammo anywhere made sense, because the Vasudans would just raid/steal/destroy it. Which is why no-maintenance, energy-sipping weapons like the ML-16 were the main gun despite their disadvantages, and why cheap ordnance like the MX-50 (basically a homing shrapnel bomb) and Fury (probably easily manufactured on board an Orion) wound up being so common.

At least, that's my headcanon and I'm sticking to it 

[Deora11]

By the 22nd century; I'd imagine more research would go into more effective propulsion systems and heavier chassis designs (like Orion sized vessels).

Before the war, hardly any funds would be spend on war-time assets due to space exploration and refine designs. So, when war comes we'll fall back on the basic form of ranged weaponry we know: ballistic weaponry.

Though requires ammunition, their range is infinite, IMO far more devastating, easy to construct and maintain, and requires very little or possibly no power to fire (kinda helps if a ship is losing or has lost power). I'd somewhat imagine ships of that era to be like Battlestars in terms of weaponry, though not on a scale that large.

After a 14 year war, I'd fully understand if they brought in more efficient weaponry, but only because resources were incredibly strained by that time. Though rather weak, the ML-16 required no ammunition, so it made sense to use it when resources were low, but allow me to point out something. If fury missiles are cheap and can probably be produced on an Orion, imagine how easy it would be to pump out bullets. All vessels capable of holding fighters would also be capable of constructing this ammunition.

I'm just pointing out a few things to consider, don't act on them. I myself would also employ energy based weaponry due to its benefits, and fighting a war makes those benefits extremely useful. Both sides have pros and cons, but I'd prefer a Battlestar style Flak wall over lasers any day of the week; aesthetically more cooler and terrifying, plus far more effective and devastating (and if you miss, don't sweat it. I'm sure one of the other 900'000 rounds will kill it, and maybe the buddy next to him).

Somewhat irrelevant, apart from time period constraints.
Having large turrets back then would also seem rather extreme, because they'd take too long to build, easier targets, and once taken out, reduces a large amount of firepower. Having numerous amounts of small CIWS turrets seems more reasonable, same as artillery and flak. I'd design vessels with WW2 style firepower in mind.

Anyhow.......