[CP5670]

Apparently only 2 of the dead were Israelis; all the rest are from abroad. I wonder what the responses will be from those respective nations. At least one of them was an American woman.

That's interesting; now maybe there be less of this pacifist nonsense come from the rest of the world.

[Stryke 9]

Who's pacifist? A good chunk of the world is rooting for one side or another. The US is producing much of Israel's munitions, the Arab nations are supporting the Palestinians. I don't see how much more involved the world can get without dividing off into alliances, a la WWI, and having at each other for real. If you're asking for World War 3 and the hard rain, be patient. No doubt, it will come someday, and you can die miserably off in the parasite-infested, exploding trenches of some foreign nation happy.

[aldo_14]

You know...I normally try to stay reasonable on-the-fence... I hate the terrorists, but I also hate the force used against them, because it justifies (in their minds) thier actions - NOT that i'm oppossed to killing terrorists in any way....

but when you see something like this, when it happens to people who are basically in exactly the same situation as me except for the country they study in... it begins to hit home harder.

And to be honest, I hope they kill them all.  Every single terrorist, every bombmaker, every person that sells them their C4, or timers, or whatever  should be dragged screaming in the streets and shot.

Because I don't see any hope of peace, and chance of the same thing as happened in Ireland, and can happen (bar the idiocy of ETA) in Catalonia / the Basques....

[beatspete]

The dispute in the middle east has gone on for so long, it's hard to understand which side is in the wrong.  You see the suicide bombings in the news, but you also get reports of who palestinean villages being destroyed by isreali forces.  I can't see a clear end in sight either, both sides think they have rights to the land (which i beleive is what all the argument is about) and its not fair for an external force to decide who gets it.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by aldo_14
And to be honest, I hope they kill them all.  Every single terrorist, every bombmaker, every person that sells them their C4, or timers, or whatever  should be dragged screaming in the streets and shot.

I always held the (probably foolishly idealistic) view that to kill the terrorist is somewhat hypocritical. In any case it merely serves to strengthen the resolve of other extremists and rarely acts as a scare tactic which is usually the point.

Reading news like this makes me feel depressed and useless.

[beatspete]

Originally posted by Maeglamor


I always held the (probably foolishly idealistic) view that to kill the terrorist is somewhat hypocritical.  

True, killing isnt the answer.  Put them in prison for the rest of they're lives, but setting out to kill them is just lowering youself to they're irrational (in general) standards.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by beatspete


True, killing isnt the answer.  Put them in prison for the rest of they're lives, but setting out to kill them is just lowering youself to they're irrational (in general) standards.

Perhaps, but what do you do when they are released from that prison by a supporting regeime so that they can continue on with their murderous plans? You. Take. Them. Out.

[Martinus]

...and that may be the reason why you will never end the war. Even if you were to kill every palestinian terrorist you still have their allies to deal with. Any other state you enter into conflict with will then know that ultimately you will have a 'no compromise' position. They will have few reservations about carrying out extremely violent acts and you'll have even more determined ennemies to deal with.

[Shrike]

Originally posted by sandwich
Perhaps, but what do you do when they are released from that prison by a supporting regeime so that they can continue on with their murderous plans? You. Take. Them. Out.

You realize that argument can be used to support suicide bombers as well, right?  

What do you do when they are enlisted by an occupying regime so that they can continue on with their oppressive plans? You. Take. Them. Out.

See why I'm sick of the whole Isreal thing?  So many of the arguments used by either side can be applied to the other by changing a few words.  Every time something like this is brought up it just worsens the cycle.

[Snakeseyes]

Every nation deserves to have a place they can call HOME.

The Israelis did, and so the Palestinians. And I don't believe that anyone can disagree with that.

[Snakeseyes]

And why I can't edit my post? I have this problems 2 days with the board.

[CP5670]

True, killing isnt the answer. Put them in prison for the rest of they're lives, but setting out to kill them is just lowering youself to they're irrational (in general) standards.

Like I said, everyone is a terrorist, and everyone is at the same level of "moral standards" as far as that goes. Of course killing them makes you a terrorist as well, but that doesn't matter at all as long as you have the power to do so. You may be "lowering yourself to their standards," but that is not at all what is wrong with these terrorists in the first place; it is just that they are against the civilized world, and we show hostilities to them in return. Neither side is or can be any more "right" or "wrong" than the other. Therefore, keep killing them until they are all dead.

Who's pacifist? A good chunk of the world is rooting for one side or another. The US is producing much of Israel's munitions, the Arab nations are supporting the Palestinians.

I was thinking more of Europe, from where I have not been hearing anything but calls for peace lately. (in the mainstream, at least)

[Bobboau]

Originally posted by Shrike
You realize that argument can be used to support suicide bombers as well, right?  

What do you do when they are enlisted by an occupying regime so that they can continue on with their oppressive plans? You. Take. Them. Out.

how is killing a mother and child in a pizza parlor on his birthday going to get the people out of you're (from there perspective) land, if they were atacking military and\or political instalations you may have a point,
but the Isralis are shooting at the people shooting at there famelys, there defending themselves
the palistinians are shooting at people in parks, and schools, people not directly atacking them, they are placeing ther famelys around them as human sheilds and when someone gets killed they use it to further there political needs, that is why they are the bad guys
I don't live there so I can't say for sure, but as far as I know there generaly arn't people rileing everyone into a homosidal rage at the Israili funerals and recruting people into killing themselves in an atampt to cause as much pain to the palistinians as posable.

CP5670

Like I said, everyone is a terrorist, and everyone is at the same level of "moral standards" as far as that goes.

please tell me you were being sarcastic

[Bobboau]

Originally posted by Shrike
You realize that argument can be used to support suicide bombers as well, right?  

What do you do when they are enlisted by an occupying regime so that they can continue on with their oppressive plans? You. Take. Them. Out.

See why I'm sick of the whole Isreal thing?  So many of the arguments used by either side can be applied to the other by changing a few words.  Every time something like this is brought up it just worsens the cycle.

[vyper]

UPDATE: Well, I've talked to the person I was primarily worried about; she's fine. She wasn't even on campus at the time - Thank God.

Good stuff Sandwich:)

Its terrible anyone was hurt though, and the international reaction to both this event and Israels response will be interesting.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by Snakeseyes
And why I can't edit my post? I have this problems 2 days with the board.

We are working on fixing this problem, no need to ask about it on every thread.

[Kellan]

Maeg: All news makes me feel depressed and useless, because all news is a litany of human suffering that one can watch whilst sitting down in the evening, say "isn't that terrible" and go to sleep thinking that you know and care about the rest of the world.

Without doing anything, naturally.

It's terrible, as always, that someone - anyone - who is not militarily involved has been killed in the Middle East. I don't have anything to say; I'm getting jaded again like I did before.

The only thing I would say (because I can't just say nothing, you know me) is that all these generalizations have to stop. Bobboau, your posts make it sound like every single Palestinian is a terrorist bent on the annihilation of Israel and the creation of new Death Camps, and every Israeli an innocent defender. Such black/white moral divides don't exist anywhere; nor have they ever existed.

CP's posts on the other hand make it sound like every single human act is one of an ill-defined 'terrorism' - which is an amusingly absurd idea. I don't suppose that I'm committing an act of terror now except in the most obtuse way imaginable - say, some of you are easily upset and my comments in this post cause you terror ( ) or if the pollution caused by the electricity the computer is using can be considered environmental terrorism.

[CP5670]

please tell me you were being sarcastic

Think about it; there is no way to determine any moral standards from a truly objective point of view, and thus morals have no meaning whatsoever when we move out of the individual and into the society. This is not a fight of "good" and "bad;" it is one side against another and nothing more. But I am heavily in support of Israel/US/etc. anyway because they have the science and technology.

CP's posts on the other hand make it sound like every single human act is one of an ill-defined 'terrorism' - which is an amusingly absurd idea. I don't suppose that I'm committing an act of terror now except in the most obtuse way imaginable - say, some of you are easily upset and my comments in this post cause you terror ( ) or if the pollution caused by the electricity the computer is using can be considered environmental terrorism.

Technically, yes, I could say you are commiting henious acts of terrorism as you are writing that. (and there probably are people in the world who do really think you are by using electricity ) Who is to say whether or not you "really" are a terrorist? Until "terrorism" has been given a mathematically precise meaning (which to my knowledge it has not), this is how things stand.

On a side note I just got an upgrade for Mathematica 4.2 in the mail and it seems to be able to simplify productlog functions; w00t!

[Kellan]

Originally posted by CP5670
On a side note I just got an upgrade for Mathematica 4.2 in the mail and it seems to be able to simplify productlog functions; w00t!

Words can't express the joy I feel for you.

Go back to your consumption. Consumer.

[CP5670]

I take it you are dropping the argument, then? Too bad, I wanted to keep going.

Words can't express the joy I feel for you.

cool!