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Author Topic: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]  (Read 34649 times)

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Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Did you actively seek decisive engagements? I.e., did you relocate  your fleets to the same regions that your enemies seemed more active in, in relatively equal numbers?

Unless you repeatedly offer battle in terms that your opponent would be willing to take, you won't be getting any massive VP additions.
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Offline Enioch

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New York Times - 23 October 1921
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 07:38:31 am by Enioch »
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So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Lorric

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Very cool. I thought it was a shot of a real paper until I started reading. :yes:

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Inspired by the NYT Titanic Issue.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Mika

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Quote
(Also, it's 2016, the digital age. Don't you think that saying "It's probably an anime series we never heard about here in Europe" is just utter nonsense? I live in Europe, Enoich lives in Europe, we've both clearly heard about kancolle. Don't apply your own ignorance on a subject to a whole continent. It's super silly.)

Well, I thought referring to Dirty Harry set the seriousness tone of my post.

I also do enjoy reading through the battles and the story. I don't particularly mind seeing the ship girls (mmm-mm, plenty of scrubbing of those decks), I just find it a weird antropomorphization subject.

I'm probably also laughing for partially different reasons. I'm not sure if you did it intentionally, but the way you described the situation in the Japanese colonies is pretty much straight out from the Soviet Union propaganda play book, and having learned to read through those "news" sort of does make some of the descriptions hilarious too  :lol:
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

  

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
I also do enjoy reading through the battles and the story.

Good. That's the point. :p

Quote
I'm probably also laughing for partially different reasons. I'm not sure if you did it intentionally, but the way you described the situation in the Japanese colonies is pretty much straight out from the Soviet Union propaganda play book, and having learned to read through those "news" sort of does make some of the descriptions hilarious too  :lol:

I will neither confirm nor deny that Soviet propaganda was the inspiration for some of what you've read here. :nervous:

And I will neither confirm nor deny that, as a historian and archaeologist, I am more than familiar with what that sort of propaganda usually disguises.

What I will say is that in this alternative universe (emphasis on alternative) the JA actually works. Maybe because it's  as far from a communist state as you can get. Maybe not.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 04:26:12 pm by Enioch »
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Cool newspaper page  :yes:

Well, I thought referring to Dirty Harry set the seriousness tone of my post.
I'm afraid that reference just went over my head, so I didn't really got the tone you meant the post in.
Urutorahappī!!

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Offline Enioch

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The Earth Moves; the Mountain Comes to Rest


In June 1923, the Akitsushima finished her working up cruise. The ship's performance was deemed most satisfactory; her sister ships were more than a year away from completion at the time, but the Admiralty were sure that they'd prove to be a credit to the navy and, perhaps, a replacement for the venerable Izumis.



In July, the R & D department unveiled a project they had been working on for several years.

Back in 1906, the German inventor Christian Hülsmeyer had submitted a patent for a system he called a telemobiloscope: a means by which to estimate the direction and distance of a large object based on the principle of electromagnetic wave reflection. The system was originally primitive and vulnerable to interference from other sources, including ships' wireless sets, which had led to the Germans rejecting it.



The Japanese doctrine, on the other hand, being considerably more focused on firing control supremacy, was ripe ground for the young scientist. Japan had acquired the plans to the telemobiloscope for a pittance after the project was shelved in Europe and, after the end of the German-Japanese wars had also invited Hülsmeyer as a consultant.

What emerged after nearly ten years of often interrupted research, was the Improved TeleMobiloscope System (ITMS) (より良い遠隔船識別子 - Yoriyoi enkaku-sen shikibetsushi in Japanese), a prototype of which was presented by the Japanese R & D board to the Admiralty in July 1923. The system included one emitting and two receiving systems, placed some distance apart; with a modified analog plotting table, it was possible to accurately estimate the direction and distance of a specific ship-sized target from a distance of several kilometres.



The Admiralty were impressed. The system clearly had promise; if improved, it could help considerably in acquiring and tracking targets in less-than-optimal conditions.



It was interesting that, during the tests, the new gadget managed to detect the Russian cruiser Pallada, which had arrived in Sasebo on a goodwill visit. With the Akitsushima ready, and with morale high after the new R & D advances, the Admiralty was quite dismissive of the Russian ship's capabilities. Almost insultingly so.



In August, the R & D department delivered again. It had always been difficult to coordinate the fire of two or more ships on a target, as it was near-impossible to distinguish between splashes of high-caliber guns and adjust the firing solution accordingly. With the introduction of shell dyes, this problem was eliminated (at least in daytime, clear-weather operations).





In August, the Navy began a major reconstruction program of her light cruiser forces. The Itsukushimas were majorly rebuilt, with double turrets fore-and-aft, and a much-reinforced torpedo armament, of eight above-water torpedo tubes. The Akitsushimas were refitted with modern director systems.

This proved to be a mistake.



For in late August, the ITMS prototype was delivered to the Admiralty, several months before the expected date. Now the entirety of the Japanese fleet had to be refitted with this device to maintain their fire control lead, and the Admiralty had just wasted several million yen refitting ships that would have to immediately re-enter drydocks when complete.



Several faces met desks.

And rose again, in fright, as the world moved.



On September 1st, 1923, what would come to be known as the 'Great Kanto Earthquake' shook the Japanese islands for what many believe was as long as ten minutes. It was followed by a tsunami that ravaged coastal regions. The death count rose to six-digit numbers, in what would be the greatest natural catastrophe of modern Japanese history. Fires burned for two days; in the aftermath, thousands were left homeless and died of typhoid and other infectious diseases. Tokyo was, effectively, flattened.

The Imperial family were, thankfully, out of danger, at Nikko; but, to their credit, the Princes quickly returned to the stricken areas to oversee disaster relief.

Japan suffered a mighty blow at the time; however, at the same time, the Kanto Earthquake allowed the rebirth of the stricken areas as truly urban centres. In the years to come, Tokyo was rebuilt, from the ground up, as a modern city, with modern sewage, a transportation system and a planned road network; new construction was also heavily regulated to conform with strict criteria for withstanding earthquakes.

The Navy, once again, made their ships available as disaster relief centres. Thankfully, the light cruisers in drydock had not been seriously damaged by the quake; many Admirals had nightmares of what would have happened had a heavy, capital ship been under construction at the time.



Still, there was little to do but try to contain the damage and nothing of note took place until November, when the Silent Service was reinforced with more modern vessels...



...and US disaster relief arrived, in massive transport convoys. Several submariners of the Japanese Navy couldn't help but take notes...



In December, the US Dreadnoughts USS New York and USS Texas arrived in Yokosuka in what was to be known as the 'Christmas visit'. The Japanese Admiralty welcomed the allied ships (one of them a decorated war veteran) and their crews; the visit was a great success in fostering better relations all around, although it was difficult to ignore the way the Nagato loomed over her US counterparts. In an open-air officer party that she hosted, an American Commander, whose name is lost to history, commented that "She looks like a d--n bear, growling down at wolves." The press jumped at the moniker and Nagato quickly became known affectionately to officers and laymen alike as the 'Bear'(Ussuri) of Japan.


Picture not relevant in any way shape or form









Taking its cues from the rebuilding frenzy taking place in Japan, the Navy invested in infrastructure. Naval bases in Kamerun, Polynesia, Sumatra and Tanganyika were further expanded; and, in return, Africa's wealth poured into the stricken Japanese islands.



And again, the US merchant marine came to the aid of the Japanese. New loading methods were introduced and implemented - methods of how to pack that much more cargo in a limited space.





(Methods that, of course, the Silent Service, being the nasty, piratical, moral-less, brilliant little people that they were, immediately took to heart for packing more boom into their metal fishes)



A glimpse of the world-wide naval forces in early 1924. Note that Japan leads the minor Powers in budget, but spends almost half of what the US and Great Britain do on her Navy.



In closing, we must mention that February also marked a date of great sadness for the Japanese Navy; and of great import to Japan as a whole.

The Ikoma the old hero of the German wars, was becoming well and truly obsolete. She was now too slow to catch up to the cruisers that had, once, been her prey. She was too undergunned and underarmored to pose a threat to enemy Dreadnoughts. And she was built so cramped that she could only be rebuilt by paying as much as a new capital ship would cost the Navy. Her time was forever past.



It was time to lay the old warhorse to rest. But neither the Navy nor the people of Japan would allow the old ship, the 'Floating Mountain', to be scrapped. On her own, she held more battle stars than the next two ships in the fleet combined; she had kept Japan safe in her moment of need and she would not be discarded. The question was, what to do with her?

A proposal was put forth by the governors of the Osaka prefecture and the Prince Regent gave it his blessing. On the 26th of February 1924, the Ikoma was formally decommissioned and struck from the Navy's record. She was sold to the Osaka prefecture administration for the nominal fee of twenty-six thousand yen, which would barely cover the fuel costs of sailing her from Sasebo to Osaka.

There, in the shadow of her namesake mountain, the old battlecruiser was placed in permanent drydock, at the center of a newly-planted grove and consecrated as the Honden of a new Shinto shrine, housing what was formally acknowledged by Imperial writ as the protective and apotropaic Kami of the ship; a Kami that was formally adopted into the Imperial family. The shrine of Ikoma-Jingū is, today, one of the most well-known landmarks of Osaka, a National Treasure of Japan and receives thousands of visitors every year.

Such was the passing of the Floating Mountain.


« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 03:43:04 am by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
OH MY GOD BEARS

EVERYTHING IS BETTER WITH BEARS IN IT.

 

Offline crizza

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Was Ikoma the "Teufelsschiff"?
Check out my blog:

http://geo.schulzbert.de/

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Yup.

Very much so.

Spoiler:
The title will be taken up by her grandchildren
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 
Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Ikoma really has earned her place as a shrine - the floating mountain becoming a small mountain itself  :yes:

Also welcome Nagato - I hope the japanese bear will feared as much outside of Japan as Ikoma.

Did you actively seek decisive engagements? I.e., did you relocate  your fleets to the same regions that your enemies seemed more active in, in relatively equal numbers?

Unless you repeatedly offer battle in terms that your opponent would be willing to take, you won't be getting any massive VP additions.
My wars were mostly against the British who willingly brought half of their fleet (still more than what I got) to my doorsteps and even a convoy escort sometimes ended up being a huge fleet fight. Nothing much came out of these battles cause of the very similar characteristics of our battlewagons. Trying to approach the enemy line to get more damage done usually ended up with the ships leading the attack getting shot to pieces - same if a British ship tried to be a hero. So we traded long range fire until it was dark and half of the ships were out of ammo.
One exception was after 3 years of war, when both fleets somehow ended up crossing each other at close range during the night. A wild torpedo carnage followed. Lots of B/BC died but the British lost more and 2 months later the war was over.
Here goes scripting and copy paste coding
Freespace RTS Mod
Checkpoint/Shipsaveload script

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Ikoma really has earned her place as a shrine - the floating mountain becoming a small mountain itself  :yes:


A fitting end for the 'demon ship', eh? :p

Quote
Did you actively seek decisive engagements? I.e., did you relocate  your fleets to the same regions that your enemies seemed more active in, in relatively equal numbers?

Unless you repeatedly offer battle in terms that your opponent would be willing to take, you won't be getting any massive VP additions.
My wars were mostly against the British who willingly brought half of their fleet (still more than what I got) to my doorsteps and even a convoy escort sometimes ended up being a huge fleet fight. Nothing much came out of these battles cause of the very similar characteristics of our battlewagons. Trying to approach the enemy line to get more damage done usually ended up with the ships leading the attack getting shot to pieces - same if a British ship tried to be a hero. So we traded long range fire until it was dark and half of the ships were out of ammo.
One exception was after 3 years of war, when both fleets somehow ended up crossing each other at close range during the night. A wild torpedo carnage followed. Lots of B/BC died but the British lost more and 2 months later the war was over.

I assume these are early wars? When predreads are still relevant?

If so, then that's par for the course, I'm afraid. At the time, capital ships can only be sunk via torps or turret explosions - otherwise they can take absurd amounts of damage at long range. Which is why the Japanese 'surprise attack' trait is so powerful early game, because it can get torpedoes into those Bs when they can't avoid them.

If you're talking about mid-to-lategame wars, with BBs in the battleline, then that's...strange, I suppose.

Also, if you're fighting the British, you'd better have planned for it for years before pushing that button.  :P




'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Damn Royal navy, you scary. 15 BB 7 BC

And rest well, you scary abyssal of a ship. o7
Urutorahappī!!

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Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Individually, their BBs are not that good. They average 35k tons or so (or less) and are relatively slow, underarmored barges. Nagato can wipe the floor with any two/three of them. But they have tonnage and number of guns, which would overwhelm anything through sheer volume of fire and force a blockade, which is a 150+ VP bleedout per month.

And how the Royal Navy win most of their wars. If challenging the Brits, you need to have a plan for unconventional warfare (either massive unrestricted submarine warfare, or raiders all over the world sinking their ships). An ally helps.
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
I've been meaning to ask, how does research work exactly?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
You assign a part of your yearly budget to it (up to 10%).

Then there are big categories, like 'torpedo warfare', 'ship design', 'turrets and gun mounts', 'naval guns' etc, that you assign priorities to, from 'Low', to 'Med' to 'High'.

And, based on your spendings and priorities and random events that may accellerate or delay or completely reset your progress in a field, you gain advances.

So, you can get your eggheads to focus on a specific category (i.e. 'get me more durable ships', 'get me bigger guns' etc), but you can't really know what they're actually working on before you get the 'Our scientists report progress in X' or 'Our scientists report they're having trouble with Y' messages. Which I find very realistic, as, like reality, you can't plan ahead based on your knowledge of the tech tree (although, admittedly, some things tend to appear before others) and you (playing the role of a military man) can't really comprehend the problems the theoretical department might be encountering.

And guns take a lot of research. In this playthrough, they've been at 'high' priority since game start.


'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Do advances in say, fire control, stack with each other? Or would buying the most advanced type of firing control from another nation just instantly make the previous discoveries obsolete?
Or does that vary with the type of tech? Cause there seem to be the type that requires radical refitting of ships and the type that just brings a gradual improvement over time.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
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Offline Enioch

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Re: Enioch's naval shenanigans - RTW as Japan - [Image Heavy!]
Do advances in say, fire control, stack with each other? Or would buying the most advanced type of firing control from another nation just instantly make the previous discoveries obsolete?
Or does that vary with the type of tech? Cause there seem to be the type that requires radical refitting of ships and the type that just brings a gradual improvement over time.

Well spotted!

There are advances that require a refit- and in these cases, buying the latest tech renders all previous ones obsolete. Director is ALWAYS  better than central firing. Torpedo protection IV is ALWAYS better than Torpedo protection I.

And, in these cases, getting the latest tech renders everything else obsolete.

On the other hand, gradual improvements stack,  and there is no 'best' tech here. You can have director systems without a 12 foot rangefinder,  but they'll still work. And they'll  work even better once you get those enhanced optics. And whoop, once you get the analog firing computers, they'll  work even better.

TL;DR: there is a 'best tech' among techs that are directly reflected in shop design, and getting that renders all previous ones obsolete. But there are always stacking techs that you can gather up to improve a certain aspect of your ships.

« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 04:09:32 pm by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

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Offline Enioch

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In early May of 1924, the R & D department followed up on their previous successes with the introduction of the revolutionary Type 12 APC shell. With improved ballistics, these new shells could better preserve their kinetic energy and armor-piercing capabilities over longer distances and would integrate beautifully with the new ITMS long-range targeting systems.



And, in September of the first year, they submitted a design for high-displacement destroyers, inspired by the lessons learned during the Franco-American-Japanese war. These new designs were still inferior to the French fifteen-hundred-ton destroyers, but they were a step in the right direction.





The Admiralty immediately ordered twelve of these new Harukaze-class destroyers, as a testbed for future light ship construction.

These ships were better than anything Japan had put to water before. Unlike their successors, they weren't gunships per se and they still mounted single-gun platforms; but they were noteworthy because, for the first time, they bore the excellent Japanese 5-inch / 55 caliber Type 3 guns, with electric training and aiming mechanisms, increased elevation and (for the first time world-wide) a destroyer-scale Director fire control system. Unfortunately, the ITMS systems were still too bulky to integrate in this design, but the Japanese optical rangefinders were still more than sufficient to make these ships competitive in a gun duel, despite their relatively few gun mounts.

They also bore a massive torpedo broadside, with two triple centerline torpedo mounts (because Japanese), a mine rail and were designed to reach a modest but satisfactory 34 knots.





During this time, tensons with the British were at an all-time low. The weakening of the French presence in Southern China, the discretion the Japanese had shown vis-a-vis the British holdings during the war and some trade concessions granted to British industrialists in Japanese holdings contributed to a climate of relative friendship between the two nations (for a given value of 'friendship', that's still old Albion we're talking about). The British were happy to sell their designs for light superimposed 'B' mounts to the Japanese, for a pittance.



During the same period, the relations between the US and Japan took a turn for the worse. The Republican victory of 1924, with the election of Calvin Coolidge as President, caused a gradual shift away from the Democrat policies of the previous years; this included a hardening of the US stance in the Pacific. The Uchida - Roosevelt Pact would still be respected, but would not be renewed; and while the new US government did not directly antagonise the Japanese, it also did not seek to improve relations in any way.





The end of the year was marked by a glorious Japanese victory in the London winter Olympics; and by the introduction of improved double-bottom designs in the Japanese Navy: a further testament to how important survivability was deemed by the Admiralty.





Better harbour facilities and supply depots were also constructed in the Japanese African holdings, including the newly-acquired Madagascar.





The new year was  a relatively quiet one for the Japanese. Small improvements in machinery design and armor arrangement were the most important news until March...



...at which point Military Intelligence slapped the blueprints to the new French Cosmao-class cruisers onto the metaphorical Admirals' desks. And there was much cold sweat running down the backs of Japanese Admirals.

The Cosmaos were not exceptional in armor (in fact they were rather under-armored, for their size) or broadside; and the French clearly had not developed miniaturised Directors for use in their light forces. But they had a blistering top speed of 31 knots, fast enough to outrun any Japanese cruiser or battlecruiser. If these ships were employed as raiders, there would be absolutely nothing the Japanese could do to counter them, barring sending DDs in suicidal pursuit.



And, on that matter, the Admiralty received another nasty shock when the first Harukazes left the slipways and it was discovered that the ships had problems surpassing 33 knots.

Well, at least the British came to the rescue...
 




...with the sale of their designs for the BL 17-inch Mark 1 guns.

Only one prototype of these guns had ever been produced and it was deemed unpractical for use by the British Navy, because of the impossibility of mounting it onto a competitive 35k-ton dreadnought design. The Japanese, whose doctrine leaned toward fewer, bigger capital ships had no such problems and snapped up the deal. Their modifications of the British design would result in the vaunted Type 94 and Type 94/B Japanese guns of later years.





October marked further developments in ship design; and the Silent Service were thrilled at the news that new submarines would be able to reach greater depths with a shorter diving time.
 

Note: Image photoshopped, from a later point in time because I forgot to screencap the 1925 design. This is the design in question; the weight budget is very generous because it incorporates weight saving techniques discovered later down the line. Originally, I was about 200 tons below budget.

In October, the Admiralty laid down the order for the Mikasa - the next-generation Super-Battleship of the Japanese Line. Based on the Nagato, this 52k ton monster was built to rule the West Pacific and the Indian Ocean uncontested.

It bore eight 17-inch guns, in an ABY, 323 layout. The guns were able to fire over the horizon, with a maximum theoretical range of ca. 35,000 yards and were controlled by a combination of the finest optical and ITMS systems of the time. It was sheathed in 15 inches of Japanese steel, with a 3.5 inch deck and equally tough turrets; interestingly, the ship's armor scheme was not designed to protect it against its own guns. That was deemed impossible, given the 17-inchers exceptional penetration capabilities - at any range under 20,000 yards (the limit of non-ITMS-assisted targeting for the ship), the superheavy shells' flat trajectory and penetration rendered any belt armor utterly irrelevant. Instead, the ship was designed to be invulnerable to American, French and British 14'' and 15'' inch guns at the 12-20,000 yard range.

Its secondary battery was comprised of 10 6'' guns, tied to a secondary director system, perfectly suited for fending off destroyers that got too close for comfort. It was capable of 25 knots - a knot slower than the Nagato, but able (and designed) to receive engineering upgrades when they would be made available.

The more impressive part of the new battleship, however, was its state-of-the-art uderwater protection. The torpedo belt and 'blisters' added to the sides of the ship were backed by several layers of watertight compartments and bracing, beyond anything attempted in naval engineering in the past. In fact, counting 'pure' TDS elements alone (and not supports and frames that also contributed structurally to the ship), more than two thousand tons of the ship's final displacement were dedicated purely to protecting her from torpedo attack.



But the works on Mikasa were, at the time, top secret. Partly to ease international tensions and partly to draw attention away from its construction projects, the Admiralty agreed to co-sponsor the 1924 November Regatta and International Navy Meeting. Mighty ships from all world Powers were gathered in Sasebo, where officers and diplomats were given the chance to socialise; the Regatta started from Sasebo and finished near Ikoma-Jingū in Osaka. It was a grand event that enhanced Japan's standing in the international scene and was perceived as a gesture of goodwill by most Powers.



Also this. Because R & D deemed it necessary to give the Mikasa more penetrative power.



Nope. No, I'm having too much fun. Just...one...more...turn...
« Last Edit: September 02, 2018, 03:49:43 am by Enioch »
'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent'  -Salvor Hardin, "Foundation"

So don't take a hammer to your computer. ;-)