Author Topic: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****  (Read 18018 times)

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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
I think there will be an arc regarding the shroooomtech which will probably span at least half the season, only for it to prove itself as something that cannot work. The sister ship which was already on the verge of getting it right did something very wrong and possibly found out by themselves why shroooomtech cannot work.

As I see it, it's basically a mcguffin to get Michael on board and working despite being a convict, nothing much more than that.

 

Offline Mikes

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
My take: The superduper teleportation shrooms will shortly take the whole ship to a) another part of the galaxy or b) another dimension entirely where the actual show will then commence to start.

You forgot option C:  The protagonist is already on shrooms, and the show really starts when the bad trip concludes.

Option D: They all died on the shuttle and the Discovery is how their brains interpret the afterlife ............... uh wait, this sounds familiar... argh nooooooooooooooo not again!  :shaking: :eek: :banghead:

 

Offline Turambar

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
This technology seems like something Picard and the crew would come help out with, only to discover that the technology is

A) uncontrollable and thus unusable
B) doesn't do what they say it does
or
C) a fraud by someone trying to scooby doo some colony

And at the end of the episode they just say "well that was a good try but we won't end up doing that"
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Offline technopredator

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
Wow. I strongly disagree.

Assume spoilers from here on out, I'm not going to use the tag.

 It felt like it was made by people with no real understanding of why Star Trek works, and no respect for the setting or the universe. Had it been in the Abramsverse, that would have been one thing, but given they made such a big deal about how it was in the prime universe, I was deeply disappointed with the very little effort they made to ground it in a franchise with a half century of history. They made bizarre decisions like having a blue guy on the bridge who clearly wasn't Andorian, and then explicitly mentioning Andorians later. Why make up a new species? Take your throw away chances to ground yourself in the universe. The federation trial at the end and the portrayal of Klingons were particularly out of character - why didn't they have hair? Why make them klingons if they're not going to look like Klingons? Or at the very least, improve the look - the new klingons look more complicated, and the quality of the makeup is better, but they're so complex that you can't really see the actor under way all the makeup, so they not only can't emote to the audience, but it's hard to tell them apart because your brain can't see the faces properly.

Even aesthetically, nothing looked even vaguely like it was ten years before ToS. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a purist. I don't want it to look like it's straight out of the sixties. But some nods would have been nice - some physical controls instead of touchscreens, some indication in the klingon ship design, anything.

Even if you just try to forget about all the previous Trek iterations, it's a struggle to care about any of the characters. The only two that had any impact on me were Michelle Yeo and the Admiral who turned up in episode two, both of whom were dead by the end of the episode. And as far as the main character goes... if anyone thinks Sonequa Martin Green's character made any sense through the episode... I just don't get it.

The Klingon bad guys motivations were unclear, but what they did manage to get across was that the empire was in disarray, and that unifying would be difficult... Except it wasn't. It basically took zero effort besides turning on that light thing, and a 2 minute speech, and by the end of the episode 23 of the 24 were basically committed to the martyr guy. Sure, give me a complicated, internally divided antagonist faction, or give me a monolithic, unified faction. But don't pretend to be one, then just flip to the other and claim to have told a story.

Some reviews suggest it picks up after episode three. I'm hoping. I'll grudgingly accept the aesthetic stuff if they tell a good story. But I'm not hopeful off that start.

I strongly agree with Black Wolf, I saw the 3rd episode today and yeah it sucked for me, they have technology that not even Voyager had, if they did Voyager would had been a 3 episode miniseries traveling at 90 LY/1.3s, WTF? A lot of quantum BS, everything and anything is possible, really? I'll keep watching maybe what they're doing makes sense at some point, if not I'll stop
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 08:43:49 am by technopredator »

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
The Cracked.com review mentions some of the other problems I had with it. Including the dumb mutiny (how the hell did she imagine it would work?), that Burham screws up her own plan by actually acting on emotion MORE than a normal human would and the problem I had with the first three minutes of the show where the crew have managed to set themselves up as the gods who came from nowhere and saved the village.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
After watching the first three episodes back-to-back:

1.  The placement of this show in ST canon looks pretty loose.
2.  I don't care about #1.
3.  A show with entirely a single-protagonist focus is new to the ST universe and so far I quite like the concept.
4.  The Klingon makeup is utterly hideous, but it further distances the show from various other Trek.

I agree that Discovery doesn't really seem to fit well with existing Trek, but its an entirely unique take on the universe; it's much closer (not just in art) to the new Trek films, but I don't see that as a bad thing since I actually like the new films.  And considering that not a single Star Trek series has really gotten good until at least season 2 and often well into 3, I'm inclined to give it a chance.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
And considering that not a single Star Trek series has really gotten good until at least season 2 and often well into 3, I'm inclined to give it a chance.

I assume you're ignoring the original show when you say that.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
And considering that not a single Star Trek series has really gotten good until at least season 2 and often well into 3, I'm inclined to give it a chance.

I assume you're ignoring the original show when you say that.

I don't consider much of any of the TOS-era to actually be "good," a few of the films aside (2, 4, 6).  For the period it was made and originally re-aired, perhaps it was, but by more modern Trek standards it doesn't even begin to compare.  I know that's blasphemy for a Trek fan; come at me :)
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Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
TOS didn't have hologram projectors or touchscreens or heads-up displays on the main viewscreen.....TOS canon was never defined in a way that would lend itself to that sort of discussion.

These things, IMHO, are due to TOS being very obviously a product of its time and its inherent limitations. I can't accept the notion that a TOS prequel series must look less advanced than TOS when our own observable reality is, in many ways, more advanced than TOS was.

TOS' canon was loose, but not that loose. They did go through the galactic barrier at warp 10ish on occasion and the speeds were ill-defined as a result, but otherwise it was relatively consistent I'd say. At the very least  we should see holograms and such in a sufficiently retro way if that makes sense. I'm thinking along the lines of USS Franklin from Beyond. I liked that wee ship, it looked sufficiently retro and dated to be a ship from ENT era.

I don't understand what's so hard about trying to remain faithful while adding some modern inspirations here and there like the pseudo-holodeck in Star Trek Continues or the modernised retro Starships of Axanar.

I'll agree that as far as aesthetics go, TOS is very much a 60s show, but the stories and plots are timeless. The only episode of TOS that really gives it away as being a product of its' time is that one with the stupid hippies (God I how wished they'd just vaporise the ****ers).

ENT at the very least had keyboards and that submarine look. It didn't always work, but at least the set creators tried and imho I think they did a good job of making NX-01 interiors look plausibly less advanced than Kirk's Enterprise. It was a compromise, but a good one.

I gotta ask this, why are you assuming that Lorca in particular and Discovery and Glenn in general are indicative of what the rest of Starfleet is like? We know that Shenzhou was different, much closer to what we think a Starfleet ship should be like, and from those two examples you are saying that all of Starfleet must be like Discovery? This doesn't compute for me.

Shenzhou definitely felt more like a Navy ship to me too, but that's a matter of opinion I'll admit.

Hmm, yes, constant action where in the pilot two fleets are staring at each other intently until Burnham screws up. Where Georgiou is trying to use tried-and-true Starfleet methods of non-aggression. Where in the third episode we get taken on an excursion to Alien-land, where Lorca is explicitly characterized as more warmonger-ish than any other Starfleet captain we've seen.

Perhaps not constant action yes, but certainly more stabby stabby pew pew than there ought to be. I agree about Georgiou. Apart from using an enemy corpse as a weapon, I much prefer her to Lorca.

Lorca is operating Discovery like a warship, yes.

It feels like a warship though, with or without Lorca, for the reasons I mentioned such as the uniforms and the somewhat formal and wooden way the crew behaves.

In DS9 we had the Defiant which was an actual warship, yet it still felt like a Starfleet vessel. I am perhaps projecting a bit here, but it seemed to me that if you were to compare Defiant and Discovery you'd find that Defiant still very much feels like a Starfleet ship with guns, whereas Discovery feels more like a warship. I feel like on Defiant you still have the benevolent Starfleet types and O'Brien and Bashir cracking wise, maybe some nihilistic Garak for a few chuckles.

And that's the other thing Discovery needs a bit more of, are the lighthearted moments, the odd joke here or there. In fact I'm pretty sure one of the reasons I enjoyed DSC episode 3 more was that there was a bit more humour here and there.

EDIT: I always though Voyager had the strongest 1st season of the Treks, even for its' flaws.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
Fair enough, but let me ask you this:

What is your opinion on Captain Jellico and Admirals Nechayev and Ross? Are they proper Starfleet officers?
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Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
Jellico and Ross, yes, Nechayev no. But I take your point nonetheless.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
My heart sank pretty early when I realised they were doing the whole Vulcan first officer AGAIN.

Why does every single Trek show (apart from DS9) feel the need to do the whole Vulcan / human conflict? We had it in TOS, we had it in TNG but with Data as the emotionless character trying to fit in with humans. And then in Voyager and Enterprise. Why do we need it yet again?

And it's not like they even did anything interesting with it this time. A human trying to be Vulcan is going to play pretty much the same as Spock did it with only tiny variations.

Even if they are contractually obliged to have an emotionless character couldn't we have had something new? Maybe a Vulcan captain and human subordinates (although that would require an alien to smash the Transparent Aluminum Ceiling)? Or perhaps something really out there like a half-Vulcan / half-Betazed ship's councillor.
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Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
There's probably Troi fanfic to that effect. ... :shaking:
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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
There's probably Troi fanfic to that effect. ... :shaking:

Lwaxana-Sarek fanfic.

...

You didn't say what generation of Troi would be involved.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
My heart sank pretty early when I realised they were doing the whole Vulcan first officer AGAIN.

Why does every single Trek show (apart from DS9) feel the need to do the whole Vulcan / human conflict? We had it in TOS, we had it in TNG but with Data as the emotionless character trying to fit in with humans. And then in Voyager and Enterprise. Why do we need it yet again?

And it's not like they even did anything interesting with it this time. A human trying to be Vulcan is going to play pretty much the same as Spock did it with only tiny variations.

Even if they are contractually obliged to have an emotionless character couldn't we have had something new? Maybe a Vulcan captain and human subordinates (although that would require an alien to smash the Transparent Aluminum Ceiling)? Or perhaps something really out there like a half-Vulcan / half-Betazed ship's councillor.

I am pretty sure we are not watching the same show. If you think Burnham is emotionless, or that her retreating into stoicism is a source of conflict for anyone except Burnham herself, you must have seen completely different episodes than what were aired.
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Let us begin to feel again
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
I am pretty sure we are not watching the same show. If you think Burnham is emotionless, or that her retreating into stoicism is a source of conflict for anyone except Burnham herself, you must have seen completely different episodes than what were aired.

She's trying to be emotionless. Which is not really that interesting.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
I like how episode 4 tied down no. 3 and what it did with pinky (ripper), especially how it denies violent processes any footing, slowly building up basic generosity and curiosity as primary important traits. I can already foresee the "So awesome but unusable tech" trope coming online, a very TNG-esque dillema between material / productivity necessity against basic humanity, compassion, empathy with an alien life. Even in here, how Michael manipulates Saru in a cold manner is well placed and also foretells the arc that Michael still needs to go through. It meshed well with the overall theme.

As this board has said from the very beggining, if they are going to make this show about how the values of what we aknowledge the Federation to be about are slowly coming online in a particularly stressed situation, then good. And this episode seems to point to that direction, so, ok. I bite. Lemme see what you have next, Star Trek.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
The only thing I really disliked (and I really, really dislike it) about episode 4 was the security officer committing suicide by tardigrade. Make her aggressive, sure, make her fully on-board with Lorca and make her antagonistic towards Burnham based on her dislike of vulcan ideals, that's all good, but don't make her stupid.
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Online Det. Bullock

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Re: Star Trek Discovery -- This is the good ****
The only thing I really disliked (and I really, really dislike it) about episode 4 was the security officer committing suicide by tardigrade. Make her aggressive, sure, make her fully on-board with Lorca and make her antagonistic towards Burnham based on her dislike of vulcan ideals, that's all good, but don't make her stupid.

Lorca seems to like people that obey orders blindly, I wouldn't be surprised if she was there precisely because she's that particular brand of stupid.
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Offline Black Wolf

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Star Trek Discovery -- This is a bad show
So, got around to watching episode 4. It's bad guys. This show is a bad show. The makeup is bad - that albino Klingon didn't look starved, he looked like his makeup artist gave up about three quarters of the way through and just airbrushed some dark smudges on. The costumes are bad. The writing is either stupid or hacky. "Who saved us?" says the little girl, while she and the crowd looks up in awe surrounded by flaming wreckage falling from the sky. That is a cliched scene and ****ty writing. And why did Discovery fly away? Surely the people on the ground needed some help that Discovery could have provided. A medical bay maybe? Or protect from anything else that might show up for the next three days while they fixed the shield? They established the timeline at the start of the show - nearest ship is 84 hours away, and there's a six hour countdown, which ended when they showed up, so the nearest help is still 78+ hours away.

And what the hell was the security chief doing? That tardigrade just killed an entire ships worth of humans and Klingons, but you have a slightly bigger gun, so you'll be fine?

The continuity with the rest of the canon is bad. The presentation of the Federation and the Klingons is completely different to what has been established. Nobody's even asking if the tardigrade is sentient? It's clearly uncomfortable, but nobody cares at all. Sure, greater good, and yeah, Lorca is supposed to be this militarist, but nobody - even Burnham - really even raises these issues? In a Star Trek show? That's not how the Federation works. And the Klingons? A crew of established religious zealots devoted to Kahless are willing to give up their honour wholesale and betray their ideals because this guy brought hem food? Starvation makes people do crazy things, but these are Klingons. Honour is their whole cultural thing, especially, you would think, for these particular Klingons. Why? Why? If you don't want the Federation to act like the Federation, don't do a Star Trek show. If you don't want the Klingons to look or act like Klingons, use another race! Any other! The show could work at any point in the timeline, and use any species they want.

I could rant all night about this stupid episode. "You've got blood on your face" "And on your hands!". Really writers? Really? The whole scene where that guy threatens to quit is just ridiculous. And then Lorca decides to pipe the distress call through the entire ship. What, to motivate people? He thinks they're just chilling out, slacking off? All that can possibly do is unnecessarily raise stress levels on the ship. Why did red headed nerdy girl just stand behind Burnham when they let the Tardigrade out? At that point, you should have assumed it was a murder machine. She just went on her first away mission to see the hundreds of corpses this thing made while it tried to kill her, and just a few days later she's this chill about it maybe killing her? No. That's stupid. That's bad character development. Why did she say that the Glenn and Discovery only had spores in common when that is obviously not true at all? They were the same class of ship. They probably had almost everything in common. And why the **** do bits of Discovery need to spin around? Surely that's enormously inconvenient for everyone involved?

It's a shame. I like Star Trek. I like sci fi on TV. But this is bad Star Trek and a bad TV show and episode 4 is where it proves it.

Bad.

Show.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 08:45:25 am by Black Wolf »
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