Author Topic: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.14.3 (combined launcher/installer)  (Read 170876 times)

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Offline wesp5

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
Instead, before the screen talking about FS2 we could have one with two options. The first one is just screenshots/logos from Fate of the Galaxy, Diaspora, TBP etc and says "I'm just here for the Free stuff" and the other one has a picture of those games and a big one of FS2 and says "I have Freespace 2 / want to buy it. Give me everything!

I completely agree with this! Also I already know a bit about FSO from working on TBP, but the first time Knossos launches I get these dozends of mods and must actually search for the one I am looking for. There should be a big seperation of the standalone FSO games and the mods! Furthermore TBP only appeared after refreshing the mod list, why is that? And I recommend to list the mods according to their full names and not leaving "the" out when sorting!

Also I think there should be a more obvious link here in the forum to find and install Knossos. Like in the Getting Started thread or similar...
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 08:05:57 am by wesp5 »

 

Offline ngld

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
@karajorma: I agree completely with what mjn said. We made it possible to skip the FS2 installation since we wanted to avoid those issues. I guess the wording wasn't the best.
@mjn: I think the screenshots in the second post here are still mostly accurate. Since this would be a purely cosmetic change (we already have the skip button) changing the template alone should be enough.

@wesp5: That's planned. I want to implement a filtering system which allows you to hide certain stuff like engines (FSO), FS2 mods, etc. If retail isn't installed, all FS2 mods will be hidden by default but can be made visible by enabling them in the filter menu.
Unfortunately, that's going to take a while since I have to solve a few other issues first. Just know that it's on my TODO list.

There's already a link to Knossos in the navbar at the top of the page. More links never hurt, I guess.  :lol:

EDIT:
Furthermore TBP only appeared after refreshing the mod list, why is that?
That might be due to the fact that TBP is still private. That won't happen once it's released.

And I recommend to list the mods according to their full names and not leaving "the" out when sorting!
Argh, really? We already had that discussion. Ignoring articles like the for sorting is common practice (take a look at Steam if you want a related example) and the whole thing was even requested by others a while back.
I'm not going to make this a setting that people can turn on and off. We have a search goddamnit! I somehow get the feeling that noone's using that.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 08:20:26 am by ngld »

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
Hmm, i thought that's kinda what we did already... apparently not. I haven't seen the install screens since we originally built them.

Anyway.. I was annoyed that you felt you needed two long paragraphs to convince us. :p  No argument here, we just didn't think to do it that way.

I was more about convincing of the importance of doing this sooner rather than later. I knew it was always something that you guys knew we needed. I was just worried it had gotten forgotten about (It's pretty easy to forget since you never see it again after Knossos gets installed).
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
We have a search goddamnit! I somehow get the feeling that noone's using that.

:lol:  I am!!!

Although... for some feedback...  :nervous:

It's a bit slow, especially when you've cleared the search bar and are waiting for everything to appear again (aside - are you hiding entries, or removing them from a list? I should look at the code to find out... ;7)
It's also a bit slow when typing, perhaps delay activating the search until 1 sec has passed without keypresses, or at least 3 chars have been typed (I have NO idea how hard that might be :) And having said that the Steam search bar doesn't do either & it remains snappy. Of course, it's not filtering images either, just a text list...)
A "delete" button might be useful to clear all search results, I've seen that in similar applications, e.g. in Steam you have a (x) appear at the right hand side once you've populated the search bar
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
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Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline mr.WHO

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
I'm not sure if this is the right place, but could someone from FSO team contat Avast anti-virus team - it keeps blocking my FSO.exe for about 1-2 hours saying that the file is rare and potentialy dangerous, so they need to check it for possible virues. After 2 hours the file is whitelisted, but every time FSO is updated in Knossos I have to go through the same waiting for Avast.

 
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
I made an exception for my Freespace 2 folder for Knossos (K:\Games\Freespace2\*) so it stops that. I use Avast myself.

 

Offline ngld

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
@niffiwan: Weird. For me the search is pretty much instant. If you want to take a look at the code, it starts in search_text in html/templates/kn-page.vue, goes through knossos/web.py (as every JS->PY interaction) and finally reaches perform_search in knossos/windows.py. The actual filtering is implemented in search_mods in knossos/windows.py like every other mod list filter. It updates the mod list and calls updateModlist in html/js/main.js to display the new list. That function also calls updateModlist in html/templates/kn-page.vue which only updates the mod list in that template and nothing else in this case (it also handles tab switching and showing the welcome page during the first run). The rendering (removing and adding DOM nodes) is handled by Vue.js.
Yes, this whole chain has to run on every keypress and is overly complicated. I want to move search_mods from Python into JavaScript code which should simplify this whole thing but requires a few changes in related code (like transferring the complete mod list from Python to JS at least once). The reason things are this way is that this whole thing changed a lot. The search_mods function existed at first (back when Python was also responsible for rendering the UI) and everything kind of grew around it.
The delete button sounds like a good idea and should be fairly easy to implement since it will only require changes to html/templates/kn-page.vue.

@mr.WHO: They can try but I wouldn't expect that to help much since there's no reason for Avast to trust random people on the internet. Besides, you can do it, too: https://www.avast.com/false-positive-file-form.php

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
What about other third-party AV/Internet Security software?

 
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
They'll complain if they're having issues.

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
So I downloaded Knossos just now and I have some questions:

  • Should it be started in admin mode?
  • When I start Knossos it asks me where I want to install the stuff, but suggests not a Freespace2 folder, but a Freespaceopen folder.
    Does that mean it has to be a seperate folder from my current FS2 one, or can I put my existing FS2 folder in that field without destroying my current installation?
  • Will Knossos be able to recognize my currently installed stuff, or will I have to reselect or even re-download everything again?

 

Offline ngld

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
  • No
  • Yes. Knossos uses a different folder structure which means you'll need a new folder for it. Please don't select Knossos' program directory or any other directory in C:\Program Files for that matter.
  • No. As mentioned before, Knossos uses a different folder structure and doesn't support mod.ini files. As a result, you'll unfortunately have to reinstall all your existing mods.

 

Offline -Norbert-

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
Thanks.

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
If I suggest, if the access to Program Files is restricted to admin only, how does Knossos launcher work in that mode? Let's say a FS2 installation resides in that folder, assuming that Steam is used.

 

Offline ngld

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
You shouldn't use an existing FS2 installation as your data folder (as has been pointed out several times already).
Copying the retail files from an existing FS2 installation works even if it's in Program Files since then Knossos only needs to read from there and not write.
As you can see, there is no problem even if the user installed FS2 through Steam.

 
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
But I haven't seen that info in the OP yet. Given that you come across "you need a clean install" like every 2 or 3 threads it should be added IMO in a way that you can't click the DL links without seeing it, unless you're blind.

 

Offline ngld

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
If you select an FS2 directory, Knossos itself tells you "Please don't use an existing FS2 directory. It won't work!". So it should be pretty self-explaining...

 
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
Theoraticly I agree 100%. But judging from the amount of these posts (as you noted yourself), it aparently isn't for some reason. Also, it's one of the things that people might should know before switching from regular (or no install for new users) to Knossos, as it seems to be the point where most people struggle.

 

Offline ngld

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
I've reorganized the OP a bit. Let me know what you think. I tried to emphasize that Knossos is different from any other launcher and not make it too boring. I might've overdone it a little.  :nervous:

 
Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
Seems OK to me. On the other hand, Knossos telling you "Please don't use an existing FS2 directory. It won't work!", is quite clear too...

One detail (maybe I overlooked it)- does Knossos also install FS itself for you once you select the GOG-installer? That being said, I think the obvious "You need to buy FS2" is missing.

Maybe some Knossos-FAQ might be helpful at some point; I think most of the other "I have problems with Knossos" posts were also rather similar.

 

Offline ngld

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Re: PUBLIC BETA: Knossos 0.12.3 (combined launcher/installer)
The "you need to buy FS2" is intentionally missing since Knossos works fine with TCs (and those don't require retail). However, it will refuse to install FS2 mods until you provide the retail files.

Knossos detects an existing FS2 installation if the user used the GOG installer, Galaxy or Steam to install it and will ask the user if it's fine to use that installation. If the user declines or nothing was detected it allows the user to select an existing FS2 installation directory or the GOG installer. The last two options work on all supported OS.

I've thought about writing an FAQ before but couldn't come up with anything that wasn't explained within Knossos or the release post. (Even the stuff about folder structures and mod.json is explained in various help texts on the dev tab.)

I guess by now we have enough questions to actually consider them frequent. I'll try and collect a few then add them to the OP.