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Already wanting to know more: clicky (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/01/05/february-cover-revealed-xcom-enemy-unknown.aspx)
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interesting.... trying to to unleash my 10yr old fan boy, but very interested
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SQUuuueeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...or something like that.
Definately keeping an eye on this
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A strategy game aimed at a console, I dread to think how it will turn out
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Well, Game Informer is a console-focused magazine, even though they technically cover a few PC games, so hopefully the new X-COM will be PC primarily, and consoles also instead of the other way around. After all, X-COM is a PC game and Firaxis is primarily a PC game company.
EDIT: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/01/05/xcom-enemy-unknown-announced-new-xcom-strategy-game-from-the-creators-of-civilization/
See? PC game magazine, they didn't even bother mentioning that it would be multi-platform. At least that's what I'm going to think about the information.
And I would like to echo TrashMan's sentiments above.
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This is very important.
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I demand more information. Anybody actually get GameInformer?
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I do, but I don't have that issue yet.
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Information. (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/09/first-screens-and-details-of-xcom-enemy-unknown.aspx)
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This is very important.
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Information. (http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/09/first-screens-and-details-of-xcom-enemy-unknown.aspx)
combining nice eyecandy and reassuring statements, the best way to calm down us irrational fan boys
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Firaxis is undeniably streamlining aspects of the game and removing no small amount of micromanagement, but from what I've seen I wouldn't call it "dumbing down" the game so much as getting rid of tedium and uninteresting mechanics.
That actually makes me nervous. Aside from having to re-equip soldiers before every battle, I don't really remember too much uninteresting micromanagement.
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Ditto.
Ever time I heard "streamlining" and "consoles" it never amoutned to anything good in the end. Never.
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That actually makes me nervous. Aside from having to re-equip soldiers before every battle, I don't really remember too much uninteresting micromanagement.
Base inventory management.
I also seem to remember the science and build interfaces being kinda clunky, though the actual management part did carry weight.
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I'm not liking that either, I'll have to wait to see what they are doing to avoid me getting annoyed with the lack of some of that "micromanagement" as they call it.
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Forum ate my post...
Apparently GI came out today, some points cribbed from other sites:
- Destructible terrain
- No action points, each soldier will have 2 movements per turn eg. move & shoot, move move.
- cover system, behind environmental objects
- aliens from the first X-Com are in: mutons etc.
- Perk system for soldiers
- Only 1 main base with satellite coverage and hangers only in different countries for interception
- abstracted ammo
- combat options like suppressing fire and overwatch are in
- research and manufacturing will exist.
- soldiers can panic, get wounded etc.
I'd link Spoony One's Betray song, but I cna't go to you tube at work....
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*insert facepalm macro*
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The no action points thing might not turn out to be terrible, depending on how they implement it. The perks system for soldiers, if done right, could play a nice role here so it doesn't feel dumbed down. As for the bases, whenever I played either UFO: Enemy Unknown or Terror from the Deep, I'd always have one main base where I'd keep the soldiers, do research, etc. Then I'd set up radar outposts with hangars for interceptors and cargo bays so I can move crap around, I never saw the need for more than one big base - so these news don't really worry me all that much. We can go into nerd rage all we want, these people are building a modern game they want to sell in a modern world. Even though I love the original UFO to bits, I find that expecting the game mechanics to stay untouched and identical to a 1994 game is totally unrealistic.
I'm not saying that they won't ruin it, mind you - but I am saying that we definitely do not have nearly enough information to tell just yet. So, fingers crossed it won't suck..
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Oh teh noes, they are not making exactly the same game as several years ago. THE HORROR!
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Oh teh noes, they are not making exactly the same game as several years ago. THE HORROR!
Exactly right. Several years? Try over 17 :)
They never said they're doing a modern graphics reskin of the original UFO, but rather a re-imagination. There's really no point in getting all pissy when the game isn't being made exactly like the original, without having any real understanding of how the new system will actually turn out. Which will only be possible, to a degree, when they release way more info, trailers, possibly a demo. I'd reserve any judgement until then.
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I'm not saying the game will suck, I'm saying the game will fail to be tactical and deep with this "streamlining".
The game doesn't have to be a copy, ti has to be decent (after all, I liked Duke Nukem Forever. I support Jagged Alliance: Back in Action. I'm not the one to be blinded by nerdrage and false expectations)
But this?
No Action points/time units? That's one of the key elements that differentiates soldeirs and weapons. Some weapons take a lot of TU's to fire. Some don't. Amount of reaction fire depending on the TU's left? Things like that. Gone.
At least UFO: Aftershcok still had it - TU's were still there, but everything was going on simountaniously. It might have been real-time, but the tactical depth was there.
Abstracted ammo? Only 1 base? Yeah, we can't have console players straing themselves with such "usueless" clutter.
For a "spiritual Sucessor" it seems to be drifting away quite far.
I'm gonna wait for more info, but what I'm seeing isn't filling me with confidence.
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Being like the NMA community is not a goal worth aspiring to.
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For a "spiritual Sucessor" it seems to be drifting away quite far.
I'm gonna wait for more info, but what I'm seeing isn't filling me with confidence.
Spiritual successor != Remake. Streamlining != a bad thing. Personally, I found the original UFO games to be unplayably complex and needlessly complicated. I'd like to have a crack at this franchise with some easier-to-grasp mechanics.
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For a "spiritual Sucessor" it seems to be drifting away quite far.
I'm gonna wait for more info, but what I'm seeing isn't filling me with confidence.
Spiritual successor != Remake. Streamlining != a bad thing. Personally, I found the original UFO games to be unplayably complex and needlessly complicated. I'd like to have a crack at this franchise with some easier-to-grasp mechanics.
Some people enjoy those "incredibly complex" mechanics.
And "streamlining PR talk" almost always end up runing things. Exceptiosn are too few to even mention. I cna't recall the last time I found the "stremlined" game better than its' predecessor.
I'm more pissed at the name of the game and being called a sucessor to X-Com than the actual game. It feels like false advertising and an insult to my intelligence.
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Yes, the lack of time units does mean they're changing the mechanics quite a bit and that it won't play like X-COM. It does not automatically follow the game will be dumbed down. It sounds to me that they're replacing the entire combat system with a new one they're making from scratch. It could end up bad, but it could end up great. We don't know yet, and I don't see a point of subscribing to "not like UFO so it's dumb" thinking model just yet.
I didn't find the original game's mechanics too complex to grasp, but parts of it were tedious. Base management, mostly. Having too much stuff in your cargo bays you don't want to sell, so you build more cargo bays in a different base, and in the mean time you can't unload some stuff from your transport craft to give your soldiers a new toy you developed, etc. There was some clunky micromanagement there that could have used a revision. As for combat, it could very well end up bad. I can even agree that most "streamlined" remake games end up dumbed down. I just can't agree that you can decide this will be the case based on a few bullet points. I'm willing to give this one a benefit of the doubt.
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Perk system?
mmm... this smells like teen spirit.
no wait that's not it, smells like you'll have 8 soldiers each of them with a special gun/ability and that's it.
OH BOY, UFO franchise is AGAIN looking at a difficult terror mission ahead.
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I'm more pissed at the name of the game and being called a sucessor to X-Com than the actual game. It feels like false advertising and an insult to my intelligence.
Because nothing should ever change, ever, ever, ever.
I'll grant, the changes listed aren't the ones I would have made to the mechanics, but as a long-time fan of the original UFO Defense, I don't see any deal-breakers in there as yet. My knee-jerk reaction is to gripe about the one-base-plus-hangars system on the Geoscape, but with the benefit of hindsight, I (and many others, based on a whole lot of forum lurking) had a primary base for research and training, supported by satelite bases to ensure sufficient interceptor coverage. With what little we know about the tactical combat system, the action and perk systems make it sound like there will be a d20 system vibe to the experience.* That's a pretty strong foundation with which to start, and considering how Firaxis has consistently crafted some of the best strategy games since the bloke who came up with Chess, I think it's a bit early to be blasting this one as a betrayal to the franchise.
Being like the NMA community is not a goal worth aspiring to.
Said like a person who never actually visited NMA, during the Fallout 3 debacle. That community raised a lot of valid concerns and criticisms about Fallout 3. The developer shoved the franchise into a different genre; the writing staff was not nearly the same caliber as the previous games had benefited from; the underlying technology was out-dated when development began, etc., etc., etc. Despite their portrayal, the NMA community made a really strong argument that trading Black Isle for Bethesda was an enormous step down for the Fallout franchise.
Of course, that doesn't apply in the slightest, in the case of X-COM. Firaxis is a top-notch developer, and strategy games are their specialty. While they may be changing the game mechanics, they're not shoving the franchise into a different genre entirely, and they've enough history with that genre to make a strategy game worthy of the X-COM name. They could still royally screw it up, but with only that tiny list of changes and Firaxis' track record by which to judge, it's way too early to make that assumption.
* - Actually, has there ever been a tabletop adaptation of X-COM? If not, then now that I think about it, d20 Modern seems like it was built for such a project.
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Yes, the lack of time units does mean they're changing the mechanics quite a bit and that it won't play like X-COM. It does not automatically follow the game will be dumbed down. It sounds to me that they're replacing the entire combat system with a new one they're making from scratch. It could end up bad, but it could end up great. We don't know yet, and I don't see a point of subscribing to "not like UFO so it's dumb" thinking model just yet.
I didn't say the game will suck or that the game will be dumb.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
I am saying that simplyifying reduces depth.
And there WILL be simplyfiying because the game is for the consoles.
I can even agree that most "streamlined" remake games end up dumbed down. I just can't agree that you can decide this will be the case based on a few bullet points. I'm willing to give this one a benefit of the doubt.
I haven't "decided" anything.
I'm being catiously pessimistic, but hopefull. OR is that a crime these days?
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I'm more pissed at the name of the game and being called a sucessor to X-Com than the actual game. It feels like false advertising and an insult to my intelligence.
Because nothing should ever change, ever, ever, ever.
Did I say that? Did I? :wtf:
I'm going to murder the next guy to start throwing strawmen by arguing thing I never said.
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* - Actually, has there ever been a tabletop adaptation of X-COM? If not, then now that I think about it, d20 Modern seems like it was built for such a project.
I came across this a while ago: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18206/x-com-tactical (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18206/x-com-tactical).
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I'm more pissed at the name of the game and being called a sucessor to X-Com than the actual game. It feels like false advertising and an insult to my intelligence.
Because nothing should ever change, ever, ever, ever.
Did I say that? Did I? :wtf:
Yes, you did. You said it in numerous places, including the post where you quoted the list of changes. You said it when you suggested that changes to the ruleset are a betrayal. You said it when you suggested that every game to ever be "streamlined" was ruined in the process. You said it in the very bit that I quoted previously, when you said that because there were going to be changes, calling the game X-COM would be, "false advertising and an insult to my intelligence." Your words, not mine.
If you reread your own posts, it won't be that difficult to see where we've gotten the impression that you think all change is bad. You've either radically changed your opinion from your previous posts to this one, or you're conveying your opinion really poorly with overwrought rhetoric and unnuanced word-choice. If you've got a nuanced opinion about the game, then you need to use language that reflects that, or you don't really have any grounds upon which to ***** about people mischaracterizing your feelings.
* - Actually, has there ever been a tabletop adaptation of X-COM? If not, then now that I think about it, d20 Modern seems like it was built for such a project.
I came across this a while ago: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18206/x-com-tactical (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/18206/x-com-tactical).
Mmmm.... That's certainly worth a look. Might have to badger a few of my old RPG buddies into a couple of games to see how well it plays.
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The only thing about this change that worries me is the opening of doors.
(Because as anyone who has played X-com knows, doors are creations of the devil.)
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*click-whirrrr*
PYOW! PYOW! PYOW! PYOWPYOWPYOWPYOW!
ArrRRRAaaRRrrgh!
Albert Bumblederp has died.
Rusty Shackleford has panicked.
Peanuts McGruffin has panicked.
Pierre Lefludeaux has panicked.
HIDDEN MOVEMENT
*click-whirrr*
HIDDEN MOVEMENT
I don't want to take my turn anymore. D:
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I'm more pissed at the name of the game and being called a sucessor to X-Com than the actual game. It feels like false advertising and an insult to my intelligence.
Because nothing should ever change, ever, ever, ever.
Did I say that? Did I? :wtf:
Yes, you did. You said it in numerous places, including the post where you quoted the list of changes. You said it when you suggested that changes to the ruleset are a betrayal. You said it when you suggested that every game to ever be "streamlined" was ruined in the process. You said it in the very bit that I quoted previously, when you said that because there were going to be changes, calling the game X-COM would be, "false advertising and an insult to my intelligence." Your words, not mine.
Since when does "change X is not good" = "all change is bad?"
Did I every say I want a complete copy of X-Com/UFO? Dear Lord, no. I haven't. It might be a fine game but there's plenty of things one can improve...like the interface for example.
And yes, I do still stand by my words. Change is nice and well, but not all change is for the better. Sometimes NOT changing something is (ironicly) a change in itself (compared to similar re-imaginings).
There's a limit to how much you can change and still claim that A is a legitimate sequel or "spiritual successor" of B.
Words carry meaning. Names carry expectations. It's that simple.
Now if you're done with this BS, maybe we could discuss....ya know... the game itself.
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Expectations aside, I wouldn't mind changes as long as they don't needlessly impose further limits on what you can do in game. I think I'll be reserving judgment until at least I see some game play, though. Deus Ex: Human Revolution was a good prequel to the original Deus Ex; there's no reason why this game can't be good too.
Apparently GI came out today, some points cribbed from other sites:
- Destructible terrain
- No action points, each soldier will have 2 movements per turn eg. move & shoot, move move.
- cover system, behind environmental objects
- aliens from the first X-Com are in: mutons etc.
- Perk system for soldiers
- Only 1 main base with satellite coverage and hangers only in different countries for interception
- abstracted ammo
- combat options like suppressing fire and overwatch are in
- research and manufacturing will exist.
- soldiers can panic, get wounded etc.
I can't lie, I'm really looking forward to real suppressing fire. Hopefully the AI will be a bit brighter, too. One of my least favorite things about the first game that really was never addressed in any mods was that the AI never really did much except randomly pace around.
Also hopefully more BFG variety, maybe we'll have more to look at than the same gas station completely surrounded by identical warehouses (srsly wut) next to identical single story houses.
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Expectations aside, I wouldn't mind changes as long as they don't needlessly impose further limits on what you can do in game. I think I'll be reserving judgment until at least I see some game play, though. Deus Ex: Human Revolution was a good prequel to the original Deus Ex; there's no reason why this game can't be good too.
Good analogy, and my thoughts exactly, after considering the rest of the thread.
Although... the bit about "- abstracted ammo" has me thinking "Invisible War" more than I'm comfortable with. The no action points thing makes me nervous too, but could work fine, depending on how they work it.
Edit :bump::
I've been thinking more about the "two-moves" thing, and I had an idea of how it could work. Picture this:
(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3188/xcommockupcopy.jpg)
Imaging that stick figure is your guy. The blue radius represents how far you can move, and shoot twice (or maybe you won't be able to move at all), either auto or aimed. The green radius is how far you can move and shoot once, either auto or aimed. The yellow radius represents how far you can move if you don't feel like being able to fire at all.
After all, isn't that generally how you play X-COM, just without needing to worry about reserving TUs? I don't know how snap shot would work though, maybe there would be another radius if you want to be able to do that?
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Interview (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/features-interview-xcom-enemy/727640)
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Hey that looks quite awesome I must say, I'm starting to like it very much now...
Will have to check the entire video later, must go now :C
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Oooh, seeing it in motion in glorious!
Also: Shotgun
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/753/plugincontainer20120307.th.jpg) (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/753/plugincontainer20120307.jpg)
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After watching the interview and reading up on it a little, I'm not too sure if the tingles I'm feeling are fear of the sanctity of the original, or nerdy arousal. :confused:
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Can't it be both?
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I can't help but feel a little nervous when I only see five or so soldiers in gameplay at a time. Must... not... jump... to... conclusions...
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I can't help but feel a little nervous when I only see five or so soldiers in gameplay at a time. Must... not... jump... to... conclusions...
Apparently you're limited to four at the beginning and can research expanded squad size as you go which is uh kind of dumb
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Apparently you're limited to four at the beginning and can research expanded squad size as you go which is uh kind of dumb
I can see reasons for it, you only have a single base this time so, transport. Supersonic VTOL transport able to reach anywhere in the world quickly and still land in any semi-large open space.
This ain't your father's Skyranger, mainly because we had to fill in most of the cargo bay with fuel tanks.
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mod support and unique PC UI?...oh yesss (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/16/xcom-enemy-unknown-will-support-mods-and-have-a-standalone-pc-tactical-ui/)
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Shut up and take my money.
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mod support and unique PC UI?...oh yesss (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/16/xcom-enemy-unknown-will-support-mods-and-have-a-standalone-pc-tactical-ui/)
I like that human. He understands.
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Even though there are some things about this new X-COM game that have me concerned I'm trying to stay positive since the originals are some of my favorite games ever and this is one of a few new games that I feel at all excited about. But just the fact that we are getting a new "real" X-COM game in this day and age is a miracle ;)
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Even though there are some things about this new X-COM game that have me concerned I'm trying to stay positive since the originals are some of my favorite games ever and this is one of a few new games that I feel at all excited about. But just the fact that we are getting a new "real" X-COM game in this day and age is a miracle ;)
I have to be the party-pooper and remind you of existing X-COM franchise games:
UFO: Enemy Unknown
Terror from the Deep
Apocalypse
Interceptor
Enforcer
So yeah, it is a wonder we get a new official X-COM game...
...because the franchise sucks. No seriously, one of the games is a classic, another one is just a fiendishly difficult and unfun remap of the original, the third is butt-ugly pioneer that came out two years early and splits opinion. Interceptor and Enforcer are legitimately terrible. Alliance became vapourware. It's like the Predator franchise of computer games.
:P
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Viewed purely as a fast-paced shooter, Enforcer is fun. (I actually completed it at all the difficulties, so it held my attention okay.)
Viewed purely as an X-Com game, it's the Antichrist.
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Hey buddy, I like Apocalypse. Man I wish Alliance had gotten made though.
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Me too, that footage of the sandcrawler thingy...
Makes me quiver.
I got the X-Com boxset many moons ago. AAAAAAAAAAAND, the very VERY VERY first game i played using INTERNETZ was this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM_(Email_games))/ :yes:
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Owww, let me enjoy this moment of unreasonable hope!
After all, those footage videos and interviews are indeed promising summed up all together.
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I had totally missed this interview that shows more in-game footage that the previous one did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxeoaeVG1Iw
I want it, nao.
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One of the recent PC Gamer's, the one with the Guild Wars 2 cover story, had an interesting article on remakes and finding a balance between nostalgia and progress. He talked a bit about this new XCOM, as well as Back in Action and Panzer General.
I've had money saved for this for several months now. If it doesn't pan out, I spend it on something else.
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Panzer General.
There's a new Panzer General? Really?
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Something like that, yeah. IIRC it is an older remake from a couple years ago. The two had different names, I think the other was Panzer Command; don't know which is which though.
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Base Dev Doc (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-xcom-enemy/730331)
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http://kotaku.com/5912253/xcom-enemy-unknown-invades-earth-in-october
comes out on October 9th for the U.S., followed by a October 12th international release date.
The PC version of Enemy Unknown will also be bundled into the collector's edition. If you just want the no-frills version of the new XCOM for PC, you'll have to buy it digitally from a digital distribution hub like Steam.
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RPS goes hands on (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/05/22/hands-on-safety-off-xcom-enemy-unknown/). and it looks like the lead dev wasn't lying when he talked about losing 24 guys in one campaign. Although Adam sounds like he'd be on track to lose more than that.
There's a new Panzer General? Really?
A month isn't much of a delay, right?
http://www.slitherine.com/games/panzer_corps_pc
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Wait... so... what? Am I going to have to buy a physical copy to get the preorder bonuses? By XCOM Enemy Unknown being bundled, do they mean the original one?
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i'm pretty pumped
(http://img.waffleimages.com/695bf8b899b8da629a5cc4eda7b12165c7405546/Don__t_mess_with_humanity_by_Jaekyu.jpg)
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i'm pretty pumped
Same here. X-COM is beyond due for a modern remake.
I've really enjoyed the original. The gameplay's really good, the atmosphere is fittingly paranoid and terrifying, but the mouse-only interface has had me tearing my hair out in frustration at times. Not even keyboard shortcuts! (unless I really derped and somehow missed them)
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oh god
when soldiers panic, their will sapped by the death bolts crackling through the air or the sheer horror of seeing a chrysalid and what it does to a man, when they panic they really do panic. Screaming, sobbing, pleading for evacuation – they’re as doomed and vulnerable as ever an elite squad has been. And it’s not just the fear in their voices, it’s the burning trees that provide the only light at a midnight UFO recovery and the intestines looping from the ruptured remains of a civilian caught up in the whole nasty mess.
(http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-circlefap.gif)
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"That's it man, game over man, game over! What the **** are we gonna do now? What are we gonna do?"
(http://downloads.2kgames.com/2kgames/uploads/images/community/xcom_eu_e3hr_001_blog-15281-cropped.jpg)
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So the in-game preorder stuff is only available in the physical copy...?
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I soo want ot love this game...but after seeing all the gameplay vid, I'm just kinda dissponted they ditched some of the stuff I so loved about the old system. And this class specialization and cartoony graphics.
It screams "wrong" to me.
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I soo want ot love this game...but after seeing all the gameplay vid, I'm just kinda dissponted they ditched some of the stuff I so loved about the old system. And this class specialization and cartoony graphics.
It screams "wrong" to me.
Considering the original game's art direction, with a squad composed mostly of Colonel Guile I think the 'cartoony' look is par for course.
Though I suppose its likely you're just following SOP and being contrary for its own sake.
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the intro to the original xcom is literally a cartoon
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I soo want ot love this game...but after seeing all the gameplay vid, I'm just kinda dissponted they ditched some of the stuff I so loved about the old system. And this class specialization and cartoony graphics.
It screams "wrong" to me.
Considering the original game's art direction, with a squad composed mostly of Colonel Guile I think the 'cartoony' look is par for course.
Though I suppose its likely you're just following SOP and being contrary for its own sake.
No, I'm being contrary cause I like having to keep my ammo consumption in check.
I like having tons of TU's and the huge range of options it presents (like different TU costs to fire a weapon).
I like being able to for every soldeir to do everything if necessary
I'm not that fond of rigid classes (only a heavy can throw grenades, only a sniper cna climb on roofs, etc..)
I'm not fond of catroony proportaions (the heavy looks like it came from Gears of War, sniper is skin and bones, etc..)
And X-Com? It's an old game. With that kind of graphics you couldn't do much in the first place.
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I like being able to for every soldeir to do everything if necessary
Remind me again, what's your Psi strength in Scourge's playthrough?
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I like being able to for every soldeir to do everything if necessary
Remind me again, what's your Psi strength in Scourge's playthrough?
ಠ_ಠ That's kind of a low blow- Trash didn't have a choice in how he got rebuilt.
Buuuut..... Psi/MC strength is kind of a special case as far as specialization goes. One weak mind can compromise an entire squad by falling to the aliens at just the wrong time.
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Nother Dev Doc (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-xcom-enemy/730333)
Includes flying suits, Chrysalids and SpzKpfw I
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Oh, THE HYPE.
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Nother Dev Doc (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-xcom-enemy/730333)
Includes flying suits, Chrysalids and SpzKpfw I
Hmm cool another dev doc better click on the link and see some talking developer heaFOIHSFOEPSG H EFFUF****CKCK
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I like being able to for every soldeir to do everything if necessary
Remind me again, what's your Psi strength in Scourge's playthrough?
That would be a realistic limitation, as it is a physical/mental limit.
What isn't a realistic limitation is snipers not being able to throw grenades. No one else but snipers being able to use a grapling hook. No one else but assault being able to sprint. There is no reason for it besides "classes".
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Classes? Turns composed of a standard action and a move action? Feats earned through character progression? This is all sounding vaguely familiar (http://home.comcast.net/~blueflames/DnD35.png).
The joypad is the only system in place for external use at the moment though...
This is my chief concern of the moment. It could just be the games I'm playing, but it seems like every time I pick up a game that's ported from console to PC, the control scheme and user interface receive less than no attention. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if there was a working mouse-&-keyboard interface at this stage of development, instead of hearing, "Yeah, we're working on that....right now....ish."
I'm not fond of cartoony proportaions (the heavy looks like it came from Gears of War, sniper is skin and bones, etc..)
(http://downloads.2kgames.com/2kgames/uploads/images/community/xcom_eu_e3hr_001_blog-15281-cropped.jpg)
Either I missed that particular episode of Looney Toons, or you've somehow confused Firaxis' strategy game with 2k Marin's FPS.
I mean, these are dudes in armor. Compared to the Personal Armor in UFO Defense, Firaxis has kind of toned it down. Yes, the heavy weapons guy is in a bigger suit, presumably so that it looks like something that can realistically take a shot. Yes, the sniper is in something much less substantial, presumably so that he can worm his way around the battlefield more easily.
This is, incidentally, the part where I think you're *****ing for the sake of *****ing. If you wanted to say that the environments are too ****ing brown, like every "gritty" action game on the planet, then you'd have a decent point. You can look at WoW (http://images.mmosite.com/photo/2009/02/26/wowtier_dwarfS7BFkd0Fio.gif) and say it's too cartoony. You can look at those shoulder pads (http://lparchive.org/X-COM-UFO-Defense/Update%2015/1-xcom167.png) and say it's too cartoony. When you look at that burning sports bar, covered in smoke and soot (http://downloads.2kgames.com/2kgames/uploads/images/community/xcom_eu_e3hr_001_blog-15281-cropped.jpg) and call it too cartoony, you surrender quite a lot of credibility.
And X-Com? It's an old game. With that kind of graphics technology you couldn't do much in the first place.
Don't even try to start that. No, the technology was not available for super-high-fidelity imagry, but developers still had the capability of consciously choosing an art style. Microprose chose massive shoulder pads and huge, center-parted hair. They chose flying saucers, green-and-purple musclemen, and anthropomorphized snakes. Pong didn't have any room for visual artistic styling. MUDs didn't have any room for visual artistic styling. UFO Defense did, and they chose a style that comes across as vaguely silly today.
I like having tons of TU's and the huge range of options it presents (like different TU costs to fire a weapon). I like being able to for every soldier being able to do everything if necessary.
I'm not going to disagree about the old X-COM's ruleset being a strong one, but you're being way too reactionary and dismissive about the one Firaxis is building for their new XCOM. As long as there's consequences to movement (such as reaction fire), you have the same risk-reward analysis to make as you did in UFO Defense/Enemy Unknown, when determining where to move your soldiers. As long as there are a variety of possibilities available for the standard action, then you have the same opportunity costs to consider, when determining what to do with that standard action.
Let's stop for a second and honestly think about how a turn plays out with TUs. You'd spend a chunk on movement and either shoot during your turn, reserve some for reaction fire, or blow all your TUs on movement. On some rare occasions, you may start a turn with a target in sight and eschew movement in favor of firing additional shots. Because each weapon used a percentage of the soldier's TUs, rather than a fixed number of TUs, gaining more TUs was really just equivalent to increasing the character's movement speed and their ability to manipulate their inventory during combat. You didn't really fill your backpack with alternative weapons to swap them about, based on what TUs you had available, when you were ready to shoot; you adjusted your movement habits, so that at the end of each move, you'd have TUs reserved for the type of shot you wanted to take.
So, in the original X-COM, you'd consciously break your turn down into a move action and an attack action. Firaxis' version just has the core mechanic do that breakdown for you. A soldier who would have fewer TUs in UFO Defense can be represented by a soldier with a smaller movement range in the new system. A soldier with a weapon that fires a quicker snap shot in the old system can be represented by having a larger range available for a single-move in the new system. The only options lost, based on what's been explicitly told to us, is the ability to stand still and spend the whole round shooting (and I'm almost willing to bet that a full-round attack option is so assumed to be available that it just hasn't warranted an explicit mention yet) and the ability to have a soldier burn his entire turn faffing around with the contents of his inventory.
What about a TU-like system that has a wider variety of actions available? I've been playing quite a bit of Silent Storm lately, which offers units much more to do with their action points (time units) than move and shoot. The turns still neatly break down into a move action and a standard action, though, since a character taking time to plant a bomb, disarm a bomb, pick a lock, pillage a locker, or break line-of-sight and hide is typically taking that action in lieu of firing a weapon. What's it matter if you take that action burning the TUs you'd use to fire or use the standard action that you'd use to fire? It's the same opportunity cost, regardless of how that cost is conveyed to the player.
To your point about rigid class-based limitations, I can see both sides of the argument. Trained soldiers can figure out which end of a rocket launcher is the business end, without needing training specific to that weapon. At the same time, though, when certain units have unique capabilities, that increases the value of that unit in combat. Let's face it: In X-COM, if you needed a rocket launcher to proceed with whatever strategy you had in mind, the value of your heavy weapons guy was inversely proportional to his proximity to the next soldier capable of carrying that rocket launcher. If there's a rigid class structure that says only specifically trained soldiers can use rocket launchers, then you either make sure to bring multiples of them on your mission; you protect your heavy weapons guy like the mission depends on it, or you have to be prepared to rework your entire strategy, should your heavy weapons guy bite the dust.
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Either I missed that particular episode of Looney Toons, or you've somehow confused Firaxis' strategy game with 2k Marin's FPS.
I mean, these are dudes in armor. Compared to the Personal Armor in UFO Defense, Firaxis has kind of toned it down. Yes, the heavy weapons guy is in a bigger suit, presumably so that it looks like something that can realistically take a shot. Yes, the sniper is in something much less substantial, presumably so that he can worm his way around the battlefield more easily.
I don't like the design. The heavy weapons guy looks fat. His hands are wider then the girls torso.
This is, incidentally, the part where I think you're *****ing for the sake of *****ing. If you wanted to say that the environments are too ****ing brown, like every "gritty" action game on the planet, then you'd have a decent point.
No I wouldn't. "Gritty" and "generic" are two most mis-placed and mis-used and over-used complants ever.
You can look at WoW (http://images.mmosite.com/photo/2009/02/26/wowtier_dwarfS7BFkd0Fio.gif) and say it's too cartoony. You can look at those shoulder pads (http://lparchive.org/X-COM-UFO-Defense/Update%2015/1-xcom167.png) and say it's too cartoony. When you look at that burning sports bar, covered in smoke and soot (http://downloads.2kgames.com/2kgames/uploads/images/community/xcom_eu_e3hr_001_blog-15281-cropped.jpg) and call it too cartoony, you surrender quite a lot of credibility.
I'm not loosing anything. If our definition of cartoon is giant shoulderpads, then your definition is WRONG.
A stylized human looks cartoony.
Don't even try to start that. No, the technology was not available for super-high-fidelity imagry, but developers still had the capability of consciously choosing an art style. Microprose chose massive shoulder pads and huge, center-parted hair. They chose flying saucers, green-and-purple musclemen, and anthropomorphized snakes. Pong didn't have any room for visual artistic styling. MUDs didn't have any room for visual artistic styling. UFO Defense did, and they chose a style that comes across as vaguely silly today.
That style however WORKS with the old 2d graphics.
I like having tons of TU's and the huge range of options it presents (like different TU costs to fire a weapon). I like being able to for every soldier being able to do everything if necessary.
I'm not going to disagree about the old X-COM's ruleset being a strong one, but you're being way too reactionary and dismissive about the one Firaxis is building for their new XCOM. As long as there's consequences to movement (such as reaction fire), you have the same risk-reward analysis to make as you did in UFO Defense/Enemy Unknown, when determining where to move your soldiers.
no, I don't. the TU system offers you more variety as you have a far greater range of costs.
Take for example the difference between weapons - all take 1 action to shoot. Some may take two. That's it. That's the only difference between weapons you can have in this category. In the old system, not only did individual weapons have different TU costs, but also different fire modes with different costs. That gave TONS of variety.
And movement too. In this new system it doesn't matter if you moved to the max of your allowed movement or if you only moved 1-2 squares - either way the entire movement phase is spent. In the old system it did matter. Every TU mattered.
I've been playing quite a bit of Silent Storm lately, which offers units much more to do with their action points (time units) than move and shoot. The turns still neatly break down into a move action and a standard action
Not really.
The devil is in te details. In the old system you can run out of cover, throw a greneade, take a snap shot and run back into cover.
[quoteg
To your point about rigid class-based limitations, I can see both sides of the argument. Trained soldiers can figure out which end of a rocket launcher is the business end, without needing training specific to that weapon. At the same time, though, when certain units have unique capabilities, that increases the value of that unit in combat. [/quote]
Which is why some soldiers are more able than others. But none is UNable.
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I will miss being able to toss items between operatives. Not much else from the whole inventory thing though.
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I'm just kinda dissponted they ditched some of the stuff I so loved
I'm not loosing anything. If our definition of cartoon is giant shoulderpads, then your definition is WRONG.
A stylized human looks cartoony.
That style however WORKS with the old 2d graphics.
I'm more pissed at the name of the game and being called a sucessor to X-Com than the actual game. It feels like false advertising and an insult to my intelligence.
X-Com is cartoony. Changing that would be false advertising and an insult to your intelligence.
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Guys, seriously: there is no point in responding to TrashMan in discussions like these. Just ignore his posts, by one method or another. You do nothing but clutter up the thread.
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I'm not that fond of rigid classes (only a heavy can throw grenades, only a sniper cna climb on roofs, etc..)
I'm not fond of catroony proportaions (the heavy looks like it came from Gears of War, sniper is skin and bones, etc..)
And X-Com? It's an old game. With that kind of graphics you couldn't do much in the first place.
I'm guessing part of that is due to visual recognition. So the player can know which guy is which without squinting at the screen sort of thing. (Oh there's my heavy, oh there's my sniper, etcetera).
I don't mind cartoony graphics/proportions, just as long as the creepy atmosphere is maintained. Compare this to xenonauts (on the kickstarter thread) which seems to have taken a super-realistic look to the squads and so forth, it's just not interesting to me personally.
Either way I'd encourage anyone to not pass judgement on a game until they've had time to play it, or, at least watch someone else play it. (like the WTF is series for example)
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Guys, seriously: there is no point in responding to TrashMan in discussions like these. Just ignore his posts, by one method or another. You do nothing but clutter up the thread.
:blah: :blah:
Is there a point to arguing design preferences AT ALL?
Why do you insist on singling me out?
Or am I EEEVIL because I'm not drooling over the hype? Must I join the herd?
"Praise the game/desing or GTFO?"
Seriously, this kind of behavior really pisses me off. Especially comoing form you Batutta.
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There's no problem with you registering your points, I even agree (to varying degrees) with some of them. It's the pointless ****ty waves of back-and-forth arguments that need to be avoided.
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Nother Dev Doc (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2012-xcom-enemy/730333)
Includes flying suits, Chrysalids and SpzKpfw I
Where what? I SAW NO TANKS.
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No there was definitely a 'tank' (though I think they're called UGCVs or something now)
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Hmm. Have to watch again.
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Definitely a tank.
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Nah, it's a small UGV alright.
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It's not exactly small, bigger than your average bomb squad robot. It appears to have plasma weaponry or whatever the green highlighted gun type is.
EDIT: scratch that, the light isn't on the gun. It's still a pretty large weapon, though. Maybe the rocket tank in the first few shots? It's hard to say but the second tank, the one we see firing first, seems to have smaller gun than the one in the first few shots background and the one we see firing second.
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Without having played any of the X-COM games and only really knowing about them recently due to the LP threads. I must say that I'm more or less looking forward to this game. Looks like they are doing most of the things right.
I hope they release it on steam too.
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god almighty (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZdanb02280)
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Dat trailer music.
Dat everything.
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It showed nothing gameplay.
It didn't have to.
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It showed nothing gameplay.
It didn't have to.
A lot of that was stuff you'll see in gameplay, though mostly in reaction to player input. A mixture of combat animations, enemy intro vignettes, research vignettes from the base, mission start vignettes, blah blah.
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i want this game so much
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SHUT UP AND TAKE MY GODDAMN MONEY.
EDIT: Well, there's the Spoonzerkampfwagon 2 Laser Tank.
And there was a bit there that looked like you might get a robot, at 1:32ish.
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I loved the nice touch of getting a British sounding reporter on the voice over. The guy really does sound like a BBC reporter.
Between this and Carrier Command it's like someone decided to bring all the favourites of my youth back again.
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They poked a little fun at us all with the Latin motto you see on one trooper's armor there.
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Money sent c'mon October...
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Yep, I'm getting hyped.
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EDIT: (yes better that way)
(http://static4.fjcdn.com/comments/+_9b730c68c5b53f08234a81f9542665a1.jpg)
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Yeah that trailer looks pretty good. Though the bit about "we're activating the xcom project" game me shades of "avenger initiative". Still it's probably the only game that's going to really interest me out of e3 I suspect.
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The voice acting on the counsel leader made me cringe, it sounded like Microsoft Sam's cousin or something. :ick:
But otherwise a really good trailer, as it did what trailers should do: Get you hyped as all hell for the game!
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The voice acting on the counsel leader made me cringe, it sounded like Microsoft Sam's cousin or something. :ick:
I believe it was the same guy who voiced Optimus Prime in Transformers. (or at least it sounded that way)
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The voice acting on the counsel leader made me cringe, it sounded like Microsoft Sam's cousin or something.
I believe it was the same guy who voiced Optimus Prime in Transformers. (or at least it sounded that way)
Did anyone else think "Dravis from Descent"? Anyone?
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Did anyone else think "Dravis from Descent"? Anyone?
Kind-of-sort-of, if the voice was a little less deep maybe.
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I hadn't watched any of the videos until now.
My body is ready.
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Two preview articles now on Kotaku.
http://kotaku.com/5933224/playing-xcom-enemy-unknown-was-worth-the-speeding-ticket-i-got-last-week
http://kotaku.com/5933613/xcom-enemy-unknowns-multiplayer-mode-is-one-giant-violent-toybox
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Video of multiplayer!
http://youtu.be/mIgxX39JCN4
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I remember when I had free time.
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Hey guess what it's out for preorder on steam now. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/200510/)
Weird tiered preorder rewards system, though. Not sure what to make of that, not sure I want to risk it not getting enough preorders on steam to get the basic pack.
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Steam's too expensive, I'm getting my games elsewhere.
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Do you think it would be worth pre-ordering? I'm not made of money, and for the vast majority of things, I wait for sales. I even let Skyrim slip past during the summer sale because it only dropped to 50% off.
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Well, if you get a free Civ V copy, it might be, but that's not likely yet.
And you don't have Civ V.
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http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/07/firaxis-show-off-xcom-enemy-unknown-death-horror/#more-123517
So I watched this.
IT HAS A SHIVAN AT THE END.
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lol crouched down that Sectopod did look a lot like a shivan
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MECHA-SHIVA! MECHA-SHIVA!
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Hope this'll be on 360
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MECHA-SHIVA! MECHA-SHIVA!
While you where wasting your time castrating a priceless antique I have beans systematically feeding babies to hungry mutated puppies!
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Steam's crossed the first preorder line, so unless you really want the extra stuff in the physical box, it's probably a good choice now.
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I don't usually like turn-based games like these since I typically have to micro-manage every single detail of every single thing. Firaxis has said they've cut down on that so that's a good thing. The %-based combat with dice rolls determining whether my soldiers live or die turns me off pretty heavily though. I'm going to have to skip this.
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Steam's crossed the first preorder line, so unless you really want the extra stuff in the physical box, it's probably a good choice now.
Do we even know what will be included with it yet?
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Do we even know what will be included with it yet?
Yes, actually.
The Elite Soldier Pack, an X-COM Vigilo/Confido patch, a foldout map of the base, artbook, and (iirc) the soundtrack. Possibly a doohicky or two I've forgotten. But it'll cost ten bucks more than the steam digital version.
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Minor spoilers; achievement list confirmed. (http://exophase.com/game/xcom-enemy-unknown-xbox-360/achievements/)
Vaguely annoyed the achievement for beating a mission with a single soldier is "Lone Wolf" rather than "Be The E"
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I have stopped perordering anything.
Got burned quite a few times, so now I wait. Always.
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Minor spoilers; achievement list confirmed. (http://exophase.com/game/xcom-enemy-unknown-xbox-360/achievements/)
Vaguely annoyed the achievement for beating a mission with a single soldier is "Lone Wolf" rather than "Be The E"
The same, plus I'm disappointed there's no Spoonzer Elite achievement.
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I'll just have to photoshop the tank one.
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Xavier
Mind Control an Ethereal. Single player only.
aside from the potential IP infringement, Mind Controlling an Eth??????
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The psionic mastermind Sid Meier could totally mind control an Ethereal. :P
EDIT: This game looks good, but I'm really on the fence. Can anyone try and convince a complete tactics noob that I don't have to worry about a complete squad wipe of my best soldiers three missions in?
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The psionic mastermind Sid Meier could totally mind control an Ethereal. :P
EDIT: This game looks good, but I'm really on the fence. Can anyone try and convince a complete tactics noob that I don't have to worry about a complete squad wipe of my best soldiers three missions in?
As that sort of wipe for bad tactics, or just because, was part of the charm of the original game...
I guess what I'm saying here is that if you don't want to deal with a wipe it may not be for you. If you're prepared to accept that sort of thing and learn from it, or simply soldier on, then it probably is.
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Hmm. I honestly don't know. I'm hoping they put a demo up on Steam so I can see whether or not I would actually like this game because I would want the pre-order bonuses if I were to purchase it. Honestly though, the soldier deco packs and armor painter should be standard items in the game, not pre-order bonuses.
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Honestly though, the soldier deco packs and armor painter should be standard items in the game, not pre-order bonuses.
Don't you know how preorder bonuses work? they'll be available as DLC as soon as a little time has gone by.
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Pre-order bonus or paid DLC, it still doesn't change what I said. If Firaxis decides to give it away for free later after release though, that's a completely different matter and I have no issues with that.
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I don't usually like turn-based games like these since I typically have to micro-manage every single detail of every single thing. Firaxis has said they've cut down on that so that's a good thing. The %-based combat with dice rolls determining whether my soldiers live or die turns me off pretty heavily though. I'm going to have to skip this.
So how would you do that, considering you have multiple soldiers?
You either have percentages or you have fixed numbers with 100% hit chance, which is far, far worse.
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Looking back, I can't see a better way to do it, but I'm just used to RTS games where things that are decided on a die roll don't typically lose you a large portion of your available killing power. There's typically some active way to avoid losing a squad or three, or losing a squad or three is a minor setback compared to an elite Major getting his torso melted by plasma and you're out a devastatingly powerful unit.
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In X-COM you weight the dice in your favor with training and armor, and use tactics to keep your squad, as much as possible, in positions where the alien's can't even roll against them.
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If tactics and equipment plays a large role in the survival rates of my soldiers, that's a good thing. If it is like Civilization where a Phalanx or Legion can seriously damage an Ironclad, that's not fun.
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Looking back, I can't see a better way to do it, but I'm just used to RTS games where things that are decided on a die roll don't typically lose you a large portion of your available killing power. There's typically some active way to avoid losing a squad or three, or losing a squad or three is a minor setback compared to an elite Major getting his torso melted by plasma and you're out a devastatingly powerful unit.
That's part of what I like about the original X-COM though. You can have top tier gear and super highly trained soldiers and things can still go to hell in a hand basket during a mission. There's nothing you can do to change that, things just turn out that way some times. You need to build your bases and train your army in such a way that one or two cluster ****s won't doom you to failure (and even then mess-ups early on usually will just for lack of resources). There's no way you can avoid these things (aside from save whoring, which really is tantamount to cheating); it's part of what the game is supposed to be, and I feel it makes it much more real.
The only things I'm really not looking forward to about this game is that it seems like they shrunk some really cool parts. One thing I really liked in the original was that you could deploy so many people - you really could have multiple fire teams and support teams acting in concert during a battle. The thing in the original that I felt they missed was a more diverse array of weapons. All you really did was race to heavy plasma and blaster launchers. Maybe you'll keep laser rifles just so you don't need to worry about ammo, but by and large useful endgame weapons are pretty limited in breadth. Judging by the gameplay videos I can guess that the new game will be better than that, but I really don't like the fact that you can only have a handful of soldiers; it really limits the kinds of things you can do in the battlescape. Don't let it seem like I thought the original was a shining example of what the battlescape should've been, though. Things got unwieldy fast when you decided to take more than even eight soldiers. Needless to say, I'm super glad there is going to (apparently) be good modding support in XCOM 2012. Also AI. I always felt AI in X-COM was boring and usually difficult for the wrong reasons. And the BFG. But I think I've said all this before in this very thread so whatever. :p
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Well, you guys have convinced me to try out the demo if/when Firaxis releases it. I can't guarantee I won't find ordering around every maneuver of every soldier fun, but I'll give it a shot.
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Ironicly, that's what many players like.
Managing your team to details(if necessary). Tons of options.
It can get clunky with many soldiers, but that's whay it's a squad-based game. You really shouldn't be running around with an army.
I'd recommend you try Xenonauts.
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the challenge of tactical shooters like X-Com is to squeeze the best out of your team
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Ironicly, that's what many players like.
Managing your team to details(if necessary). Tons of options.
It can get clunky with many soldiers, but that's whay it's a squad-based game. You really shouldn't be running around with an army.
I'd recommend you try Xenonauts.
Except XCOM is perfect for introducing people like me to these games that since there's only 4-6 men per team, maximum, and the UI looks pretty clean and easy to use.
Headdie, I've already said I'm going to be downloading the demo if/when Firaxis releases one, so we'll see if I end up liking that sort of challenge. I certainly won't buy a game in a genre I've never played before and hope I like the game.
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RPS Hands-On (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/13/hands-on-forty-hours-with-xcom/)
Joystiq video walkthroughs a mission, gets rookie killed. (http://www.joystiq.com/2012/09/13/sending-rookies-to-die-in-xcom-enemy-unknown/)
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I have no real plans to play this game, but I got invested enough in those LPs that I'm getting very excited by proxy. :D
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I'm interested in some xeno-blasting of my own with all the new videos coming out. The little cutscenes of soliders on both sides getting blasted and falling down as bleeding corpses adds to the movie-like atmosphere, especially with the voiced quotes from soldiers in the field. Plus if things get too difficult for me I can always mod in plot armor for my XCOM soldiers so a plasma bolt to the chest is just absorbed by the padding women tend to have there. Yes, I fully intend to have XCOM's main force of alien-killers be a squad of vengeful Valkyries. ;7
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I have no real plans to play this game, but I got invested enough in those LPs that I'm getting very excited by proxy. :D
A Very Firaxis Sequel is pretty much a go at this point, I admit.
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I have no real plans to play this game, but I got invested enough in those LPs that I'm getting very excited by proxy. :D
A Very Firaxis Sequel is pretty much a go at this point, I admit.
Dibs on the pilot!
EDIT: Or, perhaps this time I should be the air wing commander. Too many missions in too many wars. :P
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I volunteer for Assault duties.
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Hold the **** up people, I've still got leftovers from the last LP who need assigning before we get in new volunteers.
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I'm not a new volunteer. I was in your EU and TFTD games as a veteran alien killer. In EU I was second only to The E in kills and graduated first in class from X-COM's University of Psionics with a Psi Score of 98.
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He means people who didn't get to fill out the roster but volunteered for duty.
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Oh. I though he had just forgotten about my contributions to saving mankind in favor of people that are more well-known on the forums, like for example The E and Spoon, especially because they were the ones who got hailed as badass alien slayers. It wouldn't have been so bad if NGTM-1R had started to use psionics and let me mind-rape the alien hordes with my godlike powers.
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A Very Firaxis Sequel is pretty much a go at this point, I admit.
Are you going to practice a bit first, or just get straight into the LP when it releases?
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A Very Firaxis Sequel is pretty much a go at this point, I admit.
Are you going to practice a bit first, or just get straight into the LP when it releases?
I'll probably start the LP but move slowly so I can practice a bit as well.
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RPS Hands-On (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/13/hands-on-forty-hours-with-xcom/)
Joystiq video walkthroughs a mission, gets rookie killed. (http://www.joystiq.com/2012/09/13/sending-rookies-to-die-in-xcom-enemy-unknown/)
I must say, I quite like the cinematic moments
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dat video.
looks... so full of win.
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Demo is out. Not sure what I think.
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Demo is out. Not sure what I think.
what do you mean?
It's no good?, vids made it look like a nice game.
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It's really hard to say from the demo, but on the tactile level of mouse movements and interface it is a little console. It does not capture the spirit of the original X-COM, but it might turn out to have a cool spirit of its own.
Right now I am just mourning a lot of the stuff that's been removed and strange artistic decisions they made. Sectoids are feral and animalistic, there's no way to loiter your Skyrangers, everything's all dollied up in scripted sequences (even out of mission, in your base)...I'm not sure.
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Whelp, I can't even try this, no XP compatibility and I have too many things that don't like Win-6 or Vis7a. :(
I'll just have to go with those "Indie" spiritual sequels. Kill some aliens for me!
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I'll toss out an opinion in approximately 50 minutes or so.
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So, I was on the fence, but after my sniper had a close call with a floater and then a frag grenade immediately after, a thin man getting shredded by LMG fire, and then the last enemy getting vaporized by a shotgun fired directly into its torso, I'll probably buy this game.
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It's already starting to make me angry that we'll have a whole generation of gamers thinking that this six man sponge armored health barred single skyranger script thing is XCOM. IRRATIONALLY ANGRY
I had really high hopes but I am going to need to start adjusting them to something more sane.
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I'll play it when my internet starts working properly. Honestly what GB has been saying makes perfect sense judging by the gameplay videos I've seen, not really all that surprising. I'm hoping that mods will give people their original x-com fix so I'm not too too worried about things being dramatically different from the original.
Lingering question: how is the ai?
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It's worth pointing out that this is a deeply ****ty demo that permits only the worst sort of tactical combat and allows no meaningful decisions. So maybe the game will open up awesomely.
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Well, it turns out that after a look at my finances I cannot afford XCOM at this time, so I shall not be purchasing it.
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Saying it doesn't feel like X-COM is a little disingenuous, as the turn sequence is more or less the same though it plays through at a much higher speed. (I'm pretty cool with that, the original could at times be excruciatingly slow.) Tactics are different, primarily as a result of changes to line of sight mechanics that result from the new cover system. Cover is no longer as be-all end-all because you can still get shot at in it, which makes the game surprisingly less(!) forgiving than X-COM. Your soldiers (and the aliens) aren't as derpy about shooting to compensate for their lower likelihood of surviving. I'll have to play more to figure out if the tradeoff balances.
In general I'm happy with what I see so far, considering the small scope of the demo. Didn't figure out the capture methods in the mission, it suggested there were some, but my only option was apparently shotgunning the Thin Man in the face from one square.
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Demo is apparently locked on easy, this can be changed (http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?139306-How-to-change-Difficulty-Settings-here).
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Never really played XCOM games before, but I very much liked the demo.
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RPS has a piece up sort of apologizing by proxy for the demo:
this demo is, quite frankly, a stinker that’s far too superficial and does a poor job of representing the obsessed, tense experience of the wider game
Reassured me a little.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/25/some-things-you-should-know-about-the-xcom-demo/#more-125588
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Yeah, I'm not going to rage over what is quite clearly the tutorial section to introduce the generation that missed the first XCOM to the basic ideas of turn-based control and combat. I can see the potential there, the demo being locked on Easy was... obvious, I believe, and you can see the potential for it to open up into greater arenas, even if you hadn't realised that already from the videos the devs had shown us.
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I loved this thing, why are you all hating it? Read the previews, the Demo is just a tutorial taste.
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Not impressed.
Not bad, but I prefer the old X-Com honestly.
I like managing TU's. I like keeping track of ammo. I like not having super-specilized soldiers.
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Have you seen this yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ3B7XPpPmI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQ3B7XPpPmI)
I don't think I'll buy this game, but I most certainly will watch ALL teh gameplays ;7
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Total Biscuit did a fairly balanced overview of the demo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H1XjZL5yk4&feature=plcp
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I like keeping track of ammo.
I take it the existence of a reload button on your troopers' options bar in the demo was completely lost on you.
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I like keeping track of ammo.
Amusingly, this is exactly why I used laser weapons for the entire game. I hated keeping track of ammo.
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what trash means is that there is no seperate ammo items in the game, each weapon has reloads but you have no way to change the ammo level the soldier takes int othe battle, you just shoot, reload when needed and thats all there is to ammo managment
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what trash means is that there is no seperate ammo items in the game, each weapon has reloads but you have no way to change the ammo level the soldier takes int othe battle, you just shoot, reload when needed and thats all there is to ammo managment
That's really no different from how anybody competent would have tried to run in the original games, though. You'd equip with enough ammo to run the mission without running out, unless you had a total inability to do that (rocket launchers), plus a grenade or two. If you were doing something else it would be because you were inexperienced, which will probably last but a single mission, or because you were really dumb, for which there is no cure.
Abstracting out my having to issue five rifle clips to each guy on Hard isn't a grand and important loss. It really makes no difference to how you play the game if you're remotely competent. And ammo is still in for your whizbangs like grenades and rocket launchers so you still have to make careful decisions about what to use those on and keep track of who's still got a grenade or a rocket on them. (In fact this game is actually more intolerant of freely spending them since you'll have only maybe four grenades and a rocket per mission.)
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I'm with trashman here. Do you even have the option of having multiple people carry extra ammo? On the original I'd always have an extra person stuck with each support gunner to carry more ammo, not to mention a demo person with a pistol and loads of HE. Granted, it was really only needed on night and on terror missions till about mid game. If anything I just wish they had it so you could set loadout templates rather than just reducing the complexity to a point it didn't matter.
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Apparently there was a base assault video up on OXM, but it involved a hacked preview build and got pulled pretty quick.
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Apparently there was a base assault video up on OXM, but it involved a hacked preview build and got pulled pretty quick.
As in an alien base being attacked?
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As in an alien base being attacked?
Yes.
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As in an alien base being attacked?
Yes.
Well, at least that is confirmed, not that there was much doubt.
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Your Civ V preorder bonuses are live.
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I'm so sorry to any of you who are actually forced to play Civ V as a result
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I'm so sorry to any of you who are actually forced to play Civ V as a result
I did play some CiV5 with the Gods and Kings expansion, my former neighbour had it.
I actually kinda liked it.
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I'm so sorry to any of you who are actually forced to play Civ V as a result
They have pills for that.
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Civ V is ok.
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:nono:
It would seem TrashMan was absorbed by the wrongularity
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OH NOES! SOMEONE HAS A CONTRARY OPPINION ON TEH INTERNETS!
Seriously, Civ V was ok.
Had fun with it for a while. (and yes, I did play older Civ games)
...
And exacly when did you absorb me? I don't recall that.
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Unless it comes with a free Spoonzer laser tank, I won't spend a penny on it (and instead mooch off of Dekker if he buys it). :cool:
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I think there was a screenshot of some kind of a UGV tank.
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Unless it comes with a free Spoonzer laser tank, I won't spend a penny on it (and instead mooch off of Dekker if he buys it). :cool:
Sadly, the issuing of personal laser weaponry is forbidden in the UK.
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Unless it comes with a free Spoonzer laser tank, I won't spend a penny on it (and instead mooch off of Dekker if he buys it). :cool:
Sadly, the issuing of personal laser weaponry is forbidden in the UK.
Damn... :(
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Unless it comes with a free Spoonzer laser tank, I won't spend a penny on it (and instead mooch off of Dekker if he buys it). :cool:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vmvc3dnonh67eyl/xcom_tank1.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/om08q5hykj2wqrt/xcom_tank2.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nkg9wbu2n6vvgr/xcom_tank3.jpg
Not sure if this minigun thingy shoots laser and plasma later in the game. Probably does, otherwise it'd be obsolete in the end-game.
Much good spoiler tags does when links stay visible. Click at your own risk.
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Based on recent comments, I deliberately choose to NOT purchase this game. :p
You FREAKIN freeloader Firespawn.. Not that I have a working PC til your mate has a look-see.
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Unless it comes with a free Spoonzer laser tank, I won't spend a penny on it (and instead mooch off of Dekker if he buys it). :cool:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vmvc3dnonh67eyl/xcom_tank1.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/om08q5hykj2wqrt/xcom_tank2.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nkg9wbu2n6vvgr/xcom_tank3.jpg
Not sure if this minigun thingy shoots laser and plasma later in the game. Probably does, otherwise it'd be obsolete in the end-game.
Much good spoiler tags does when links stay visible. Click at your own risk.
ahhh so they going for the UFO:After#### series style person sized UGV?
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xcom-tank3.jpg is worthy of the Spoonzer name
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Based on recent comments, I deliberately choose to NOT purchase this game. :p
You FREAKIN freeloader Firespawn.. Not that I have a working PC til your mate has a look-see.
FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUU- Wait. If I can get my mate to fix it for a reasonable price, will this allow for me to be freeloading game sponge? ;)
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Depends how long it takes him doesn't it.
DEKKER MISSES HIS KERBALS!!
Bear in mind, I chose not to one-click order this today from amazon... Act fast or I may just buy it on PS3 :P
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Played the demo, it was not so bad.
It's true the guy talking is kinda annoying, but well... this is a demo that was clearly put up in a few days with hackish methods for sure.
I think I'll be getting it when I have a few bucks available.
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Another trailer.
http://kotaku.com/5949118/new-xcom-trailer-is-filled-with-explosions-and-green-goo
The end gave me mass effect fibes, the dude was definitely screaming "I AM BIOTIC GOD!".
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If they haven't ****ed up psionics, there's no physical telekinesis or anything. It's just induced fear and mind control.
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If they haven't ****ed up psionics, there's no physical telekinesis or anything. It's just induced fear and mind control.
The trailer DOES give the impression he stopped the thing's charge psionically, but there's more than one way to do that...
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If they haven't ****ed up psionics, there's no physical telekinesis or anything. It's just induced fear and mind control.
to be fair that is about the only options you had in the original
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I think tutta meant if they hadn't changed with psionics it would just be fear and mind control. Not turning operatives into Vanguards or Adepts.
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Steam is preloading.
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This game... so much win...
It's really and truly X-COM. The thrill of victory, the agony of defeat, snatching victory while your sniper is poisoned and one of your soldiers is bleeding out by scoring a lucky shot on the last alien of the round. And it's [hard on even "classic" difficulty, which is one level below "insane".
The flanking and high-ground mechanics are extremely useful, tactically, and the small squad size forces you to think very hard about every move, and to make sure your soldiers cover each other.
So far of what I've seen, this gets a 5/5 score from me. Not managing inventory feels weird, and I miss how soldiers' accuracy is degraded if they're wounded, but those are relatively small things.
(http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/542940367346100616/8133007553CEDCE92E2F4794860BE6433F6C3D29/)
Surprise! You die!
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I love this game.
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I ran an Easy game for practice.
First terror mission is ten minutes of pure undiluted "OH **** WHAT DO I DO NOW **** CHRYSSALIDS".
First base assault I wiped when I didn't have a rocket handy to cut down a group of Chryssalids before they got to close-combat range.
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Damn, this game has two DVDs.
edit: This game could've used a couple more weeks in beta. At least twice the games gotten stuck where none of the buttons do anything except make that "dee-doo" noise and I'm force to kill the game.
Past that there is so much of the game that I wish they just revamped the old mechanics for rather than oversimplify it. Not being able to pick up unspent medkits and grenades, the huge gap in difficulty between classic and normal, and I'm beginning to hate the two stage turns. I really hope I just get used to it, goodness knows I've loved plenty of games that initially repulsed me.
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This game could've used a couple more weeks in beta. At least twice the games gotten stuck where none of the buttons do anything except make that "dee-doo" noise and I'm force to kill the game.
This is actually typically your own fault for having done something where a person has actions left but nothing to spend them on (a sniper in the open), or you attempting to do something in the tutorial it doesn't want to do.
Then you hit end turn and take the losses you've probably just inflicted on yourself. Or the tutorial explodes because you can't remember what you're supposed to do and you have to quit. Either way.
EDIT: I was reading reviews on some of the gaming sites and somebody who's supposedly done 22 hours of XCOM goes "aliens just wait for you to find them and then get a movement turn, they don't react otherwise". Well, yeah, sometimes that's true, but I've seen a lot of them actually come towards me, get spotted, and then get a second movement turn because they moved into my line of sight. They're definitely not completely frozen if I haven't put eyes on them once yet.
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This is actually typically your own fault for having done something where a person has actions left but nothing to spend them on (a sniper in the open), or you attempting to do something in the tutorial it doesn't want to do.
This is actually typically your own fault for having done something where a person has actions left but nothing to spend them on (a sniper in the open), or you attempting to do something in the tutorial it doesn't want to do.
Nope, end turn gives me the dee-doo as well (this is all outside the tutorial, btw. **** the tutorial). Pressing escape doesn't even bring up the menu. I can alt-tab and close the game from the taskbar, so it's not totally frozen but something definitely happened that wasn't supposed to happen. There are also a few graphical glitches I've encountered, but nothing really anywhere near as serious as the weird dee-doos.
I was reading reviews on some of the gaming sites and somebody who's supposedly done 22 hours of XCOM goes "aliens just wait for you to find them and then get a movement turn, they don't react otherwise". Well, yeah, sometimes that's true, but I've seen a lot of them actually come towards me, get spotted, and then get a second movement turn because they moved into my line of sight. They're definitely not completely frozen if I haven't put eyes on them once yet.
Yeah, the AI isn't particularly special in how it behaves before you've seen it but they definitely actually do things beforehand. That weird wave thingy is, I assume, them doing things that you can hear, too. I do wish they got rid of that whole "aliens get an extra movement turn when you spot them" thing though, that's really ****ing annoying.
EDIT: Add not being able to fire at an arbitrary square to my list of things I hate about this game.
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EDIT: Add not being able to fire at an arbitrary square to my list of things I hate about this game.
That is the worst problem with this game. Which is a good thing, because it's not really a big problem.
In other news: Hey you guys! I lost a game! As in, real, total, Game Over, 'you failed, start over loser', no amount of saved-game-reloading can save you now, lost a game! Do you have any idea how long it's been since that was possible (besides in stuff like FTL)?
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In other news: Hey you guys! I lost a game! As in, real, total, Game Over, 'you failed, start over loser', no amount of saved-game-reloading can save you now, lost a game! Do you have any idea how long it's been since that was possible (besides in stuff like FTL)?
Was the Earth still cooling?
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It's a lot harder to get your good gear to everyone in this one. On my Easy game I'm only just starting to deploy full teams in Power Armor about two months after I researched it. I basically burned a whole month's worth of cash to build up just enough laser weapons to be assured nobody would have to take a regular gun out for the base assault regardless of who was active when it went down.
And your options when it comes to fielding plasma weaponry are to burn a couple months' worth materials and cash to arm everyone, or to slowly drag it in off the field along with the still-breathing bodies of its original owners.
The choices you make at the management level are tighter and more important in this game then they were in original one. You have to pick and chose what's critical and who needs it most much more carefully here. I'm still running laser weapons on my snipers because they just don't need better yet, and god knows I need the cash for other things.
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Hey remember that red-suited Muton Commander from the opening of the first X-COM?
They made him real, as a special **** you to anyone still fooling around with lasers and Carapace suits. No, I'm not talking about Berserkers, it gets worse.
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Hey remember that red-suited Muton Commander from the opening of the first X-COM?
They made him real, as a special **** you to anyone still fooling around with lasers and Carapace suits. No, I'm not talking about Berserkers, it gets worse.
Yeah, and wait until you get to the endgame, I'm in the final build up on my normal difficulty test game.
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I assume I'm near the beginning since I've got no idea what is going on, and since I never played any XCOM games before, I'll assume things are going normal.
I just had my first terror mission and it basically blew in my face. Right before this one, my veteran soldiers were injured somewhat and had to forgo this mission and so all I had was a veteran sniper and a few rookies, getting me 4 soldiers out of a team of normally 5. I got introduced in the middle (end?) of the mission to a new type of alien (spidery thingy), who in turn introduced another new type of enemy, zombie. My team was obliterated and now about 5 nations decided to withdraw.
I assume this series is like Dwarf Fortress, yes?
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That's called a Cryssalid, and it is the reason terror missions are terrible.
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I assume this series is like Dwarf Fortress, yes?
Not always, though it does happen at high difficulties or low levels of caution or simply because you're not used to it.
MEET THE CHRYSSALIDS is one of the places that frequently does it.
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If you ironman this game it's surprisingly hard even on Normal.
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Big Trouble in Little Córdoba
Aced the first Terror Mission in Argentina, Capt. Ibn "Poe" Battuta lead a squad of second string Squadies and Rookies to a crushing victory over the Xenos threat. Granted I caught a lucky break and Big Sky dropped my squad off on a highway overpass which I was able to set up a meat grinder for the Crysalids and Floaters. That said I won't say no the "Like a Scalpel" achievement.
The Man, The Legend:
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2vnnwpg.jpg)
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...and Squaddie Kara Thrace just captured a Sectoid and Outsider in one mission. Two Objectives in one go!
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2i7of2c.jpg)
Doctor Vahlen: Go and tell your Squad Leader that we have been charged by the Council with a sacred quest. If he will assign some plasma fodder some arc throwers, he can join us in our quest for the Outsider.
Kara Thrace: Well, I'll ask him, but I don't think he will be very keen. Uh, he's already got one, I stunned it you see.
Doctor Vahlen: What?
Officer Bradford: She said they've already got one!
Doctor Vahlen: Are you sure he's got one?
Kara Thrace: Oh yes, it's very nice!
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Holy ****, I think...they might have actually made a better mousetrap.
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(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3666/2vnnwpg.png)
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Now whenever another squad member tags the controlling member of a linked pair of sectoids and both get fried I'll imagine him yelling "That still only counts as one!"
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What do difficulty levels change? Do aliens start being prepared for our arrival? Do they start shooting outside of our view? Because I see there is no shooting at skyranger anymore.
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battuta spotted
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What do difficulty levels change? Do aliens start being prepared for our arrival? Do they start shooting outside of our view? Because I see there is no shooting at skyranger anymore.
Below Classic, the AI is throttled and there's a cap on how many units it can actively control at one time. (Five, I think.) It can at times look as if it's monkeying with damage and to-hit, but actually it's because the aliens understand the internal cover system better at higher difficulties.
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Mutons are really hard to hit for such big mother****ers
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Hey remember that red-suited Muton Commander from the opening of the first X-COM?
They made him real, as a special **** you to anyone still fooling around with lasers and Carapace suits. No, I'm not talking about Berserkers, it gets worse.
So this had me proper freaked-out, and then I met them.
And I laughed in their scaly stupid faces. And by 'laughed', I mean 'shot sniper plasma'. Worth every credit.
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So I've been playing this over the weekend. It's a very good game, with a few stability and usability issues (It seems to suffer from some issues after a couple hours worth of playtime without a restart, and the UI to target grenades, rockets and other throwables is rather bad).
It's also a rather punishing game, a game that rewards good and punishes bad decisions and that isn't afraid to tell you that it's game over for you, something that has been rather rare these past few years.
And yeah, it seems that playing it Ironman style is the intended way to go (even though that has just cost me my best Sniper, grrrrrr).
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I haven't played it[except the demo] and I am not going to so I can't talk about it the way you guy do, but if the selling point is that you get to make choices sometimes and they seem to matter and your soldiers can really die..
I asked about the AI because I wasn't sure if what I've seen on zero difficulty is all this game has to offer. It seems it much or less is.
Cover system seems to be working and nothing more than that. Watching vids I needed 'some' time to get used to the fact that shot fly through everything. It looks they botched this one up a bit knowing they can get away with it easily.
Balance is working in terms of gameplay, but is weird. If you can oneshoot a sectoid with a pistol, but you need plasma sniper rifle for another one.. meh.. It looks liek they had no better idea to make commanders more dangerous.
Aliens are unaware of presence and won't shoot at soldiers unless they enter their FoV. And someone still calls this X-COM. Animations of aliens roraring and taking cover on sight are really ridiculous when you encounter few seperate ones. And are generally unpleasant to watch. Aliens taking cover? Yes. Animations? Ugh.
Reaction shots look bad when there are few people shooting at the same time. Because they don't shoot at the same time. Some of them do, some of them shoot in sequence. There are situations when one man reaction shoots an alien and the other one still shoots later, missing the target because there is no target anymore. Looks all kind of wrong.
Some weapons take too many shots in one sequence. I remember from the demo, I shot a sectoid in the head with heavy machine gun. TRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR and then it came down dead. It looked so WTF, but I think you can get used to that. Supressive fire looks especially terribad. I can't understand what they wanted to achieve here. To be honest, all these animations look just bad most of the time.
Lastly, maybe it's just me but I can't really stand the drama they put into this game. Because it is a lame drama.
I played the demo so I kinda know how the gameplay feels like but I can't tell how different the things I pointed out feel from actual gamers perspective[how different can they feel?]
So how you actual gamers feel about these?
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I haven't played it[except the demo] and I am not going to so I can't talk about it the way you guy do, but if the selling point is that you get to make choices sometimes and they seem to matter and your soldiers can really die..
I asked about the AI because I wasn't sure if what I've seen on zero difficulty is all this game has to offer. It seems it much or less is.
I felt like this after the demo, but the game is actually pretty hard! Even on normal (bear in mind I'm on oXCOM vet) I lost my first game (I had ironman on). This game can be really damn difficult and the AI is excellent.
Balance is working in terms of gameplay, but is weird. If you can oneshoot a sectoid with a pistol, but you need plasma sniper rifle for another one.. meh.. It looks liek they had no better idea to make commanders more dangerous.
I don't think sectoid commanders have particularly more HP than normal sectoids - maybe one or two, but nothing to compare to a sectopod or muton elite.
Aliens are unaware of presence and won't shoot at soldiers unless they enter their FoV. And someone still calls this X-COM. Animations of aliens roraring and taking cover on sight are really ridiculous when you encounter few seperate ones. And are generally unpleasant to watch. Aliens taking cover? Yes. Animations? Ugh.
Yeah, these are really dumb, and I'm sick of the over-the-shoulder shot cams as well. But you can turn most of that stuff off! (I just did!) You can even turn off enemy HP display.
As for the issue of what aliens do before you run into them...yeah, I do wish they were a little more active. My biggest complaint with the game is that the enemy placement doesn't feel particularly random. Compared to oXCOM the missions are quite predictable.
Lastly, maybe it's just me but I can't really stand the drama they put into this game. Because it is a lame drama.
The script is mostly just okay, but it's not actively annoying for most of the game. The demo was 10000x worse than the actual game in this regard - most of the game isn't cluttered with cinematics and crap like the tutorial is.
I played the demo so I kinda know how the gameplay feels like but I can't tell how different the things I pointed out feel from actual gamers perspective[how different can they feel?]
So how you actual gamers feel about these?
The game is much better than that dreadful demo. The only worries you have that I think really pan out in the full game are the ones I highlighted...but I haven't played on difficulties above normal yet, so even some of those may improve. (God I want those alien intro videos to go away.)
Rest assured, though, this game can be really damn hard, both on the tactical level and the strategy layer.
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I don't think sectoid commanders have particularly more HP than normal sectoids - maybe one or two, but nothing to compare to a sectopod or muton elite.
They actually do in my experience; three vs. ten. But they're much more clearly different species as well; they look different, fight differently and the game maneuvers them differently. Still, Muton Elites have something like fifteen and Sectopods have thirty, which basically means you have to crit them to oneshot even with the best weapons in the game.
Aliens are unaware of presence and won't shoot at soldiers unless they enter their FoV.
You know if you'd actually read the thread (hell if you had even read my last Let's Play post), you would realize that's not true, because it's been discussed. The aliens do react and move around when you can't see them, though on lower difficulties the game has a hard cap on how many the AI can control at once. But I've seen them move to contact plenty of times. I've also seen them try and move to support other aliens as well; on my Easy game, the last mission before the temple assault, a Sectopod and a couple of Drones that I had deliberately bypassed via savescumming (I knew where they started but I didn't actually see them this time because **** fighting a Sectopod in a tightly enclosed space) nearly crawled up my rear while I was trying to capture an Ethereal. The first time I met Floaters I lost two people specifically because they moved from out of my FoV into my flank.
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I don't think sectoid commanders have particularly more HP than normal sectoids - maybe one or two, but nothing to compare to a sectopod or muton elite.
They actually do in my experience; three vs. ten. But they're much more clearly different species as well; they look different, fight differently and the game maneuvers them differently. Still, Muton Elites have something like fifteen and Sectopods have thirty, which basically means you have to crit them to oneshot even with the best weapons in the game.
I think their HP goes up with difficulty too. I'm playing on classic, and the Sectoid Commanders have at least 15 HP and are very hard to hit if they're in cover. I hate them quite a bit, with their mind-controlling and reaction-shotting my sniper, grrrrr.
This game could use a couple more patches, I think to bring it up to as good as it should be. The cinematic kills sometimes glitch with my soldier pointing in completely the wrong direction and the bullets coming out of the side of the gun. And there's that one large UFO where the game just can't figure out what level my guys are on, and keeps showing me the roof of the craft instead of the inside. Oh, and sometimes a squad of aliens will appear literally out of thin air, usually right in the middle of my squad. And there was the time a Cyberdisc sort of phased through the roof of a UFO to splash another of my snipers.
So yeah, some glitches need fixing.
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So how you actual gamers feel about these?
The concensues among the X-com lovers group I know is that it's "not really X-Com" and it's too "stremlines and simplified".
Most people I know are somewhat dissapointed. They expected more.
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The concensues among the X-com lovers group I know is that it's "not really X-Com" and it's too "stremlines and simplified".
Most people I know are somewhat dissapointed. They expected more.
Ummmm.... have you read this thread? Among this group of X-COM lovers, this does not seem to be the case at all.
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The concensues among the X-com lovers group I know is that it's "not really X-Com" and it's too "stremlines and simplified".
Most people I know are somewhat dissapointed. They expected more.
Ummmm.... have you read this thread? Among this group of X-COM lovers, this does not seem to be the case at all.
I wasn't talking about this group.
This is a comparatively small group compared to some of the others I know.
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Yeah, they did either over simplify or blatantly remove a lot of the parts that I really liked from the original, but I still think it's a good game and a worthy re-imagining. I must admit I kind of regret paying $60 for it, though, since I haven't gotten more than a few hours of gameplay out of it so far because it keeps breaking some way or another.
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Hahaha man I had a narratively perfect final mission.
Elite badass squads fights it way about halfway down the length of the temple ship. We're taking some serious attrition but heavy medkit use by the supports keeps things ticking. Apollo has 1 medkit left and Voodoo has 2. We've only got one psychic, Dozer, so we're trying to keep him alive at all costs.
Then a gang of Muton Elites jumps us from a bad angle. Voodoo's mortally wounded and needs a medkit to stabilize her. Dozer's taken a mauling - down to 5 HP.
But I've only got one medkit left.
I agonized over it for two or three minutes before using the medkit on Dozer and leaving Voodoo to die. :( She deserved better.
When we got to the temple ship bridge, only three of us were left standing - Apollo, Dozer, and DOA. Apollo breached first and promptly got mind controlled. Dozer and DOA ran but Apollo had higher move speed and cornered Dozer. DOA had a shot, should've taken it - didn't. Dozer had a shot too - didn't take it. Suppressed instead.
Apollo missed his shot, the mind control broke, and we killed the Ethereals. Dozer finished the mission with 1 HP, so leaving Voodoo to die was worth it.
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I wasn't talking about this group.
This is a comparatively small group compared to some of the others I know.
Okay, let's talk about other groups. Not a single other group I'm part of agrees with you.
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I wasn't talking about this group.
This is a comparatively small group compared to some of the others I know.
Okay, let's talk about other groups. Not a single other group I'm part of agrees with you.
Oh boy....
I should have seen this coming. Now you're gonna start a mini war with me because I disagree wiht oyu on something again, aren't you?
Ok, here's some quotes from other people:
The public IS still able to enjoy complexity.
But, simple as that, a dumber game gets both the gamers who want complexity, because there aren't any complex competitors, and the gamers who just want 5 minutes of eye candy between lunch break and lunch.
Lowest common denominator. It sells. It especially sells to people who can't find the lowest common denominator of the game's price and the IQ required to complete it.
Hello all:
I have purchaed and already finished X-Com: Enemy Unknown. Finishing the game left me extremely disappointed. Seeing the high game rating (8/10 average) all over gaming sites left me thinking that there is something wrong with me. I wouldn't give the game more than 6 or 7 out of 10- even if I try to approach game from the point of view of someone who never played original X-COm series ( I finished all 3).
To say that X-Com: E.U. is "dumbed down" would be an understatement. Despite updated graphics (which are not much of an improvement over Silent Storm, by the way), the whole game feels like a...board game! You move unit certain number of squares, roll the dice, repeat. Gone are the elements that made the original game so great:
1) Physics system. Yes, this 2012 game has a much worse physics system that a 20 year old game ! Your bullets do not actually interact with environment. Whether you hit the target or not is basically decided by a random number generator, not whether the bullet actually connects! Environmental damage is all pre-determined and does not have any effect on the game other that occasionally remove a cover from unit. You can only hit one unit at a time (unless you fire a rocket or throw grenade). Your bullet spray can never hit a random target- only the one you selected. In conclusion- fighting is basically "rolling dice" and watching visual representation on screen! Often this leads to "disconnect with reality" when random number generator decides that apparently a wall is not there and Alien shots and your grenades pass through walls without actually penetrating them.
2) AI is basically absent. Aliens sit around and wait for player to find them. Then they get "activated", a little cutscene is played EVERY TIME of the aliens pounding their chests, roaring or otherwise acting annoyed.
3) Equipment management is GONE. You cant pick thing up, pass them along, modify your loadout during mission. You have infinite ammo.
4) The whole tactical system is oversimplified to basically a "rock-paper-scissors" type of game. You cant use different types or shots (aimed, snap, auto), cannot sprint, walk, crawl, kneel. Cannot move a certain number of time units. Player can basically move TWICE during the turn. If by accident player moves one square- it will count as one move even if your moving range is 10 squares. Soldier attitude cannot be set to cautious, normal or hostile. Looking direction of units cannot be set... I could go on...
5) Base management and alien craft interception are oversimplified to the point of becoming a boring chore.
Overall, playing this game made me join this community. I'm now looking forward to Xenonauts coming out.
i'm with gonzo
the letdown of xcom:eu led me here.
Want to know the sad part? If XCOM draws in less money than CoD(or some other modern military style shooter 64) most publishers will say that's because TBS is a dead genre, not because XCOM had some legitimate problems.
I want to play games which is hard because the opponent is good, not because the game only allows me to run into combat with my arms tied and eyes blindfolded. I saw angry joes review where he said "this isn't a dumbed down game", but that is excactly what it is. Its a dumbed down game made for the general gamer audience like many of the other games out there and im sick of it. I can understand why people like the game, because it has some good parts. But its not the x.com game for me.
Welcome to the "People who think the new XCOM combat system sucks" boat ^^
It's got to the point where I mostly trust my perception of games from watching video playthroughs more than the majority of critical output, even from those veteran journalists I trust. For example, Rock Paper Shotgun did a favourable report on XCOM:EU, and even though it was a really well written piece, I couldn't simply buy the game off the back of reading Alec Meer's (qualified) praise, like I would have done when reading PC Gamer when I was younger - purely because I had already watched video playthroughs and I knew that the things I saw in the game would affect my enjoyment of XCOM. This was vindicated when I eventually played it for a whole day at a friend's. Enjoyable in parts but the little bits dig at me.
The apples and oranges argument is fine, but in this context you can't begrudge people expecting their apples, and getting freaked out when they get a pineapple. I think it's fair to say the majority of people who have fond memories of the originals loved their micro management and the tough decisions that brought along, and the sometimes grueling (lack of) pacing. Other people might rather point at the alien menace, the variably brutal difficulty and sci-fi tropes and so on, which are still in the game (even enhanced) and be more happy than the first group.
I really don't think it's unfair to expect a deep and demanding management/tactics game from something bearing the XCOM name, and because it doesn't really fulfil those characteristics, to question why it was ever branded under that license in the first place.
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Could we please not tread down this path again? Because I've seen all the sights along the road and I doubt there will be anything new to behold. He doesn't like it, he's entitled to his opinion and five angry pages later that's not going to change.
I think there are plenty of threads that stand in mute testament to this being the case.
Einstein has a certain quote about repetitive action expecting different results.
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Trashman, I agree with many of your points, but quoting random sods on the internet is really not a good way to support your case. :p
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Quotes without verifiable attribution are meaningless.
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Thread's dead, baby. Thread's dead.
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It will be in short order if it turns into what I suspect it will.
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I still don't know how I feel about this game, even after watching so much gameplay footage. The combat feels off to me, and call me a masochist, but I enjoyed having to make sure that I packed the guns on the Skyranger and then trying to do a night time terror mission with stun rods and smoke grenades against Chrysalids and Snakemen when I realise that the guns are on the other bird.
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I had a rather annoyingly anticlimatic ending when I realized I only needed to kill one alien to win and they spawn where they're visible from the door.
Double tap solves all problems.
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Holy **** I love mods. (http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?158376-Anti-cheating-mod-and-real-ufos-released!-Classic-difficult-only) Absolutely going to try this out. More UFO activity? More pressure on your interceptor force? Mutators for NG+? Sign me uuup
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Trashman, I agree with many of your points, but quoting random sods on the internet is really not a good way to support your case. :p
Showing that random people don't like the new X-Com doesn't support the claim that there are plenty of people who do not like the new X-Com?
Ok...then how would you go about showing it?
On second thought, ignore that question.
Quotes without verifiable attribution are meaningless.
All those quetes are from a single thread on the Xenonauts forums. You can find it on General Xenonauts Discussion there. There are serveral threads there. There are pletny similar threads in other forums.
Check it out if you don't belive me. Or don't.
Wether you belive it or not is not my concern.
I said what I wanted to say and there's no point is word fencing with you. Consider this case closed.
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In other news: Good game, would play again.
I finished! On classic difficulty, with a minimum (for me) save abusing. On the final mission
I only lost one guy, and he was just critically wounded. The boss went down like a sack of pancakes when my assault soldier Run & Gunned up to point-blank range and shot him in the face. Twice. With an alloy cannon.
I then attempted to start a new game on Impossible/Ironman. I lost twice and went back to Classic/Ironman. So far so good.
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Yesterday, I assaulted the Alien base. I got through with only one shiv being lost. Felt pretty good.
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Got the game yesterday. Even after experiencing the demo first, I have to say that the full game is kinda meh. I never played the old xcom games, but I have to agree with some of the design and gameplay issues that have been already mentioned earlier.
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So has anyone played this on console?
I know it sounds like hierarchy to this particular group, but I'm just curious as to the differences
I was thinking about picking it up for my PS3
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Now, as to the subject of entitlement, let's not use that word. It's poisoned by pages upon pages of stupid debate about what gamers expect from a game versus what they actually got. In this instance, it seems to me that it's more of a matter of expectations, and people not willing to let go of what they thought the game would be like. The discussion about the new XCOM, for example, is currently being poisoned by people who expected to get exactly the same game as the original X-COM, but who were disappointed when they found out that not every little gameplay quirk the original had was ported over. It's similar here; people were expecting Graphics on par with the big leagues, but were disappointed when it turned out that the dev team apparently had other priorities.
For shame Sir. For shame.
Talking so ill about other people for not sharing you oppinion (and assuming too much in the process).
For the record - I knew exactly what XCOM:EU would be like, and I had no flawed expectations.
It's NOT a bad game, but I have every right to not like it's direction and to say so publicly.
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For shame Sir. For shame.
Talking so ill about other people for not sharing you oppinion (and assuming too much in the process).
For the record - I knew exactly what XCOM:EU would be like, and I had no flawed expectations.
It's NOT a bad game, but I have every right to not like it's direction and to say so publicly.
Putting this where it belongs.
Also, why do you think I was talking about you? I could have used the discussions surrounding ME3 as an example, it would not have changed the argument.
But then, you'd probably take that as a call to action as well, so the end result would have been the same.
To elaborate on the argument I was trying to make, it's currently impossible to discuss XCOM without people coming into the thread who are disappointed that <FEATURE> from the original didn't make the cut, which means that at some point, someone will say "Consoles ruined everything". It's just a more elaborate, less amusing version of "Stop liking what I don't like" as far as I am concerned.
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Also, why do you think I was talking about you?
Becase I was the last person (and one of the few) to voice displeasure about XCom and oyu did specify X-com and not ME3?
To elaborate on the argument I was trying to make, it's currently impossible to discuss XCOM without people coming into the thread who are disappointed that <FEATURE> from the original didn't make the cut, which means that at some point, someone will say "Consoles ruined everything". It's just a more elaborate, less amusing version of "Stop liking what I don't like" as far as I am concerned.
I don't see the problem.
It bears the title of X-Com, so of course some people will be dissapointed if it misses features that to them are central to what X-Com is.
Immediately lashing out at people for sayign such this can also be easily interpreted at "Stop not linking what I like"
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I think you missed the second part of that sentence, where I describe the likely progression of arguments towards the seemingly inevitable end state of "<GAME> could have been so much better if it wasn't made for a broad audience", which I think is one of the most poisonous ideas to ever enter into gaming-related discussions (Just like "DLC is evil" or "Consoles are holding everything back").
As in, they're almost always made by people who are missing the point completely.
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As in, they're almost always made by people who are missing the point completely.
Perhaps you meant more on the lines of "As in, they're always missing the point completely".
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I think you missed the second part of that sentence, where I describe the likely progression of arguments towards the seemingly inevitable end state of "<GAME> could have been so much better if it wasn't made for a broad audience", which I think is one of the most poisonous ideas to ever enter into gaming-related discussions (Just like "DLC is evil" or "Consoles are holding everything back").
To each his own oppinion I guess.
I tend to think there is some truth in those statements.
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Holy sheep man. HEAT ammo + Shredder rockets + Danger zone = a whole lot less Cyberdisc
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Hover SHIVs with plasma are ****ing sweet. When they're actually selectable, that is.
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I actually skipped the Spoonzer option this time, but won't for the Let's Play because Spoon.
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Yeah, in this game, taking a tank always seems to be a much bigger decision, given that they're not really useful until the Hover/Plasma stage. By the time I was able to build them, my regular troops were levelled enough and well enough equipped to make the tank only an emergency option in cases where several of my regular people were injured.
That being said, once you actually do have a hover shiv, and you're able to pair it with a squadsight-enabled sniper (and honestly, is there any other kind?) the game becomes much easier (Disclaimer: I am currently playing on Ironman Easy, after getting my ass kicked on Ironman normal).
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You can say it's dumbed down after you beat ironman impossible.
The game is lovely despite a few minor control flaws that are annoyances rather than anything else.
On balance, especially since they did more to control player economy this time, rather than making the entire game lulzydisappointingly easy by selling crap, I don't think they made it any easier. If 'dumbing down' isn't some kind of brattish code for 'waaaaaaah I can't exploit poorly thought through mechanics to make the game super easy', then colour me cynical.
I skipped shiv's in favour of assault/sniper/heavy/heavy/support/support, but I could probably drop a heavy for a shiv.
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You can say it's dumbed down after you beat ironman impossible.
An odd statement.
Since when is there a direct correlation between difficutly and "depth" (or dumbing down)?
On balance, especially since they did more to control player economy this time, rather than making the entire game lulzydisappointingly easy by selling crap, I don't think they made it any easier. If 'dumbing down' isn't some kind of brattish code for 'waaaaaaah I can't exploit poorly thought through mechanics to make the game super easy', then colour me cynical.
Most people reffer to removing features and options, and general freedom in the game when they say "dumbed down".
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You can say it's dumbed down after you beat ironman impossible.
The game is lovely despite a few minor control flaws that are annoyances rather than anything else.
On balance, especially since they did more to control player economy this time, rather than making the entire game lulzydisappointingly easy by selling crap, I don't think they made it any easier. If 'dumbing down' isn't some kind of brattish code for 'waaaaaaah I can't exploit poorly thought through mechanics to make the game super easy', then colour me cynical.
I skipped shiv's in favour of assault/sniper/heavy/heavy/support/support, but I could probably drop a heavy for a shiv.
FWIW I don't think trashman is complaining about the difficulty of the game. At the very least, what disappoints me isn't the difficulty, it's the fact that you can't micromanage to the level of detail of the original. I was kind of puzzled at the gap between classic and normal, though. On classic mode there was hardly a mission where I didn't come back with only one or two soldiers left, whereas on normal I think I've only lost one or two soldiers total in an elapsed time at least doubling my time on classic. That's a relatively minor qualm, though, quite insubstantial compared to my other misgivings.
And now that I'm here, I might as well point out that the patch they released did seem to fix the stability issues I've been having, which really was the brunt of the reason I haven't been playing more despite what I've been saying about not being able shoot everything everywhere all the time and etc.
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This article matches my sentiments regarding the streamlining of the gameplay pretty well: http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/xcom-enemy-unknown/1226388p1.html
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My #1 gameplay issue is simply that the missions become too predictable. There are never any enemies right at the Skyranger ramp, and gaming the activation of various enemy clusters feels dumb and, well, gamey.
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I'd elaborate more on one point from the gamespy article
UFO Defense is slow. Let's Playing a mission frequently took at least two hours, most of which was spent in the process of actually playing it. My choice every time was reserve TUs and move, as well, because there was never any reason to do otherwise.
In EU I can Let's Play a mission in under 45 minutes. I actually do bother with a full move sometimes, which I doubt I would have ever done in UFO Defense.
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My #1 gameplay issue is simply that the missions become too predictable. There are never any enemies right at the Skyranger ramp, and gaming the activation of various enemy clusters feels dumb and, well, gamey.
I played this map twice, and both times I got enemy contact with the first move.
(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/595858222332830668/4F7D2D4865916EA7124813AD8F3DFBD68E2EB184/)
This was also the map that cost me my first playthrough (A few turns in, most of my core of experienced guys was dead due to mutons and cyberdiscs and overlapping fields of fire. This screenshot is from my current playthrough, where this map came up rather late in the game).
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In EU I can Let's Play a mission in under 45 minutes. I actually do bother with a full move sometimes, which I doubt I would have ever done in UFO Defense.
Technicly you KNOW there won't be an enemy in certain areas and they won't attack you while you are moving. (they will do their little animations, get a free move, flank you and THEN kill you)
Which is one of the things I miss from X-Com. You could run, spot an enemy and immeditely duck for cover, back up or whatever. (assuming the enemy didn't reaction-fire you dead) Of course, X-com has many, many DERP moments and flaws of it's own.
To this day I consider Jagged Alliance 2 the pinnacle of squad-based tactical shooters.
Technicly real-time untill enemy contact? Great, speeds the game up!
Learn-by-doing system that doesnt' suck? Check
Soldiers with personality? Double check
Tons and tons and TONS of options and ways you can play? quadripple check!
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Technicly you KNOW there won't be an enemy in certain areas and they won't attack you while you are moving. (they will do their little animations, get a free move, flank you and THEN kill you)
That's actually got nothing to do with it. I knew UFO Defense and TFTD well enough to know exactly where aliens would spawn if they were going to, so the argument works both ways in knowing where they would be and which positions they could spawn in that would be most dangerous to my advance. Just having more spawn points doesn't change the fact that I know where to be worried about them appearing if I still know all the possibilities.
The real reason is this: If you ended a turn in LOS from an alien in UFO Defense, you were dead about nine times out of ten. The game was thus about killing all the ones you could see on the same turn you met them. If you were moving forward without a shot to fire left in your TUs, you were a dead man walking. The same thing went for the aliens. And unless you knew that guy over there was out of TUs because he'd already expended his overwatch shots, moving across his field of view was equally likely to kill you.
EU's cover system means that both sides have a chance to move to contact, fail to immediately eliminate all enemies in view, and live to tell. Moving across an enemy's field of view, due to the selective overwatch system, is also not as immediately fatal. This gives both the AI and the player greatly expanded tactical options.
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My team:
(http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/tt78/Soronarr/Lets%20Play/th_XComTeam1.jpg) (http://s599.photobucket.com/albums/tt78/Soronarr/Lets%20Play/?action=view¤t=XComTeam1.jpg)
True to His name Chuck "The Allmighty" Norris has by far the highest number of kills. 2-3 per mission. It might be just a concidence that he's a murderdeath machine, but I'm begining to suspect the devs coded something to make a soldier with his name unstoppable or something.
Major Forsythe "aka Phoenix" earned his nickname by beign wounded. Every friggin mission. Snd surviving. Not only surviving but killing the living s*** out of the alien that shot him. He just refuses to stay down apparently.
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Question: Does this game allow you to save and quit at any time, including mid-mission? I often have only 30-60 minutes to play at a time and the last thing I need is another game where I'm stuck without a save when my time's up (BL2, I hate you for your respawn-only-at-fast-travel-locations-after-quitting stupidity).
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Indeed it does. Unless you select the Iron Man option which disallows it.
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Indeed it does. Unless you select the Iron Man option which disallows it.
I thought the point of iron man was to limit saving to save and quit so saving cant be used to dig your way out of a stupid mistake
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I thought the point of iron man was to limit saving to save and quit so saving cant be used to dig your way out of a stupid mistake
I admit I haven't tried using it in any by the traditional iron-man fashion, which usually means you're not permitted to save mid-mission. However, since that's what it usually means...
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Yes. The game autosaves (if you tell it to, which you should) at every point where a decision has to be made, i.e. at the beginning of a combat turn, when research finishes etc.
And yes, on Ironman, you can save and quit during a combat turn.
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Question: Does this game allow you to save and quit at any time, including mid-mission? I often have only 30-60 minutes to play at a time and the last thing I need is another game where I'm stuck without a save when my time's up (BL2, I hate you for your respawn-only-at-fast-travel-locations-after-quitting stupidity).
Save and quit at any time, even in Ironman. (You're unable to savescum in Ironman, but you'll have no problem resuming where you left off.)
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Unless your rolling Ironman, at least on Classic, you can save whenever and however much you like.
hmm been covered, apparently I am unfashionably late.
-Ah, thanks for the clarification, it's my first run at the XCOM Franchise so I've simply been playing vanilla Classic.
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Unless your rolling Ironman, at least on Classic, you can save whenever and however much you like.
You can still save whenever and however much you like on Ironman, but it'll quit after you save, and you only get one save slot. So no go-backs or do-overs!
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You can still save whenever and however much you like on Ironman, but it'll quit after you save, and you only get one save slot. So no go-backs or do-overs!
Aye, I've lost at least three good squads that way. I'm on my way to almost having colonels again though! Still looking for that elusive large battleship so I can get the research achievement, and then I just need to find another psionic soldier (the first one being in one of those ill-fated squads).
EDIT: Found a battleship, shot it down. Totally worth it. Two words: Blaster Launcher
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The game is a cheating b****.
Not only do aliens sometimes get double-moves, but sometimes they magicly spawn right in the middle of my squad.
*POOOF*
And 3 muttons appear right in the middle of the street. 2 spaces away from my guys.
Frak you game. Frak your cheating ways.
EDIT:
Guess who the only psionic on my team is?
CHUCK NORRIS. The game is messing with me. I mean what are the odds? Seriously.
What are the odds of him never dying (he never even got seriously hurt IIRC), having the highest kill-count and being the only psionic?
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Being a psionic means you have a jedi mind trick advantage: "you shall not hit me" :wakka:
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Why don't you go to Firaxis forums and post about it?
Ask if there's a secret piece of code that reads the names of the chars and gives them abilities or something like that.
Once I get the game I'll try with Bruce Lee, just to see if it dies right away or not.
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Why don't you go to Firaxis forums and post about it?
Ask if there's a secret piece of code that reads the names of the chars and gives them abilities or something like that.
Once I get the game I'll try with Bruce Lee, just to see if it dies right away or not.
There is just such a code but IDK if Chuck Norris is included.
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No, I looked it up already. This must be a really really big conincidence.
That, or the power of Chuck Norris at work.
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First DLC has been reported upon, something about China and Battleships.
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It looks ****ing awful. DLC for this game should be so easy, why are they ****ing it up
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http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/10/23/xcom-enemy-unknown-slingshot-dlc/
;p
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http://xcom.nexusmods.com/mods/18/
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It looks ****ing awful. DLC for this game should be so easy, why are they ****ing it up
I know what I'd like out of DLC for this game (Slingshot isn't it), I'm just wondering what you'd consider to be the "optimum" dlc for XCOM Batts?
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More maps! Lots more maps! Stuff to put into the pool the game draws from.
I just finished my Ironman Classic playthrough and I'm already itching to go back to the original. I think this game's confined, neutered geoscape really hobbles it.
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More maps! Lots more maps! Stuff to put into the pool the game draws from.
I just finished my Ironman Classic playthrough and I'm already itching to go back to the original. I think this game's confined, neutered geoscape really hobbles it.
Yeah, we're of a mind on that, though ideally I think that should be patch level content.
Ideally, for me, DLC would add more content (Tech, aliens, etc) - Something to make it more than a remake.
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Yeah, I'd really like more maps, especially ones that actually look like someplace other then North America. On a more superficial note I'd like more voice options for my troops, so I could actually match a nationality with an accent.
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I want more weapon options for troopers instead of just slugthrower/laser/plasma choices in shotgun/rifle/SAW/sniper variants. There could be SMG's which act as a rifle/shotgun cross for all troopers for close quarters situations and GPMG's for heavies with more damage but less aim, plus more light rifles instead of just light plasma. Throw in particle/ion and Gauss weapons, too, and give each tier of weapon its own unique bonuses and penalties.
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That sounds...kinda cool, but impractical on two levels:
1) The existing research tree is pretty hair-fine balance already, where would anybody get the fragments and lab time to research a bazillion new guns
2) (more importantly to me) I'm less interested in having more tools to solve a fairly narrow range of problems than I am in having more problems.
3) definitely do want that voice pack Starslayer
I dunno, the original had plenty of weapon diversity and it only had a few more guns than our new XCOM.
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I would prefer various weapon in each tier so I can choose. Not a fan of such a static progression. There really is no choice.
Now, if ouy had:
Ballistic1 -> Ballistic2 - > Ballistic3
Laser1 -> Laser2
Plasma1 -> Plasma2
Then it would be more interesting.
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1. Yeah, that's a problem, I guess, so Firaxis would have to either re-balance tech for this (not likely) or stick them in existing researches, making those even higher priority. (Or ideally they release mod tools and official mod support with no more .exe patching so I can do this myself. I'd love to run a CQC team in the early game with UMP-45's and a shotgun or two when some massive damage is needed.)
2. Any ideas on what sort of problems you'd like to deal with?
Battuta, I've never played the original, so I can't really say how diverse weapons were in it. I probably should, but I'm really not that interested since we have this one.
Starslayer, I would definitely love a pack that did actual authentic accents for my soldiers and more diverse locations.
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]
Battuta, I've never played the original, so I can't really say how diverse weapons were in it. I probably should, but I'm really not that interested since we have this one.
Your loss, the original is a very different and (in the strategic layer) much better game.
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Oh I'd squee in glee if Colonel Hahn whispered "Guten Natch" as she evaporates some advancing Zerker's face with a plasma sniper round.
I suppose if I got to pick some more "problems"
- Sabotage: Infiltrate alien facilities or aligned countries and eliminate infrastructure
- Stealth: Recon missions that take maybe a one or two operative team meant to carry out objectives "all quite like"
- Assassination: Eliminate high value targets, whether it be collaborators or high ranking xenos
- Augmenting Conventional Forces: Use my squad to assist a nation's conventional military forces perhaps a multi objective mission
- CQB specific missions: Something really using multiple levels and tight quarters, like taking place in a high rise or a aircraft carrier
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2) (more importantly to me) I'm less interested in having more tools to solve a fairly narrow range of problems than I am in having more problems.
This. I still haven't managed to play much XCOM due to school and computer problems, but if it's anything like the original there's kind of a repetitive formula to how the game evolves, and after a couple playthroughs the game is about not doing anything too dumb in the battlescape rather than defending Earth.
Similarly, diverse weapons are fun and stuff, but if they're all useless compared to heavy plasma what's the point?
Also the original is definitely worth playing. I haven't gotten far enough in the XCOM to talk about strategy in XCOM vs X-COM but I can definitely say they approach base management in very different ways.
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Similarly, diverse weapons are fun and stuff, but if they're all useless compared to heavy plasma what's the point?
Yeah, in the original, you basically used the Blaster Bomb and Heavy Plasma exclusively since they're far and away the best.
The progression was Basic Weapons=>Laser Rifles=>Heavy Plasma. Everything else was kinda a waste of time.
Anyway, I've been playing on Impossible (not Ironman because I'm weak) after finishing Ironman Classic and it's a different game you're playing in this difficulty. You REALLY have to think hard about what you're doing.
Interestingly enough, apparently it's still entirely possible to beat the Ironman Impossible with a greater success rate than failure rate. I'm starting to grasp the sort of metaplay you need to engage in to maximize your odds.
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- Sabotage: Infiltrate alien facilities or aligned countries and eliminate infrastructure
- Stealth: Recon missions that take maybe a one or two operative team meant to carry out objectives "all quiet like"
- Assassination: Eliminate high value targets, whether it be collaborators or high ranking xenos
- Augmenting Conventional Forces: Use my squad to assist a nation's conventional military forces perhaps a multi objective mission
- CQB specific missions: Something really using multiple levels and tight quarters, like taking place in a high rise or a aircraft carrier
:yes:
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- Sabotage: Infiltrate alien facilities or aligned countries and eliminate infrastructure
- Stealth: Recon missions that take maybe a one or two operative team meant to carry out objectives "all quiet like"
- Assassination: Eliminate high value targets, whether it be collaborators or high ranking xenos
- Augmenting Conventional Forces: Use my squad to assist a nation's conventional military forces perhaps a multi objective mission
- CQB specific missions: Something really using multiple levels and tight quarters, like taking place in a high rise or a aircraft carrier
:yes:
:yes:
The CQB specifics - I'd also add things like Oil rigs to that, just because.
More alien base invasions would be nice, too.
Although, at least one of the scenarios in Slingshot will be CQB-esque - Fighting on an Alien Battleship that's in the air, I think.
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I'd like to be able to add words to the table(s) that the game pulls operation names from, because that would be hilarious.
These words (http://overcompensating.com/posts/20080109.html)
EDIT: Bonus tweet! (https://twitter.com/markgrundhoefer/status/262073371183939584/photo/1)
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Rapid Fire Maths, for your inner geek's geek. (http://sinepost.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/probability-in-games-xcom/)
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I can do that in my head cause I'm a Mentat :smug:
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I can do that in my head cause I'm a Mentat :smug:
Speaking of which whatever happened to the Kwisatz Haderttua and the cocoa production statistics project?
The cocoa must flow.
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Rapid Fire Maths, for your inner geek's geek. (http://sinepost.wordpress.com/2012/10/26/probability-in-games-xcom/)
I figured that out intuitively loooong ago playing X-COM:TFTD. When ammo isn't a factor, the advantage of three bullets instead of one, only expending a few extra TUs than a snap-shot, makes auto fire almost always the best choice if available.
The same logic applies to the rapid fire ability. And at least once it happened that I missed a single, high-percentage shot when I had the option for rapid fire.
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I was realy into this game and wanted to buy it on November the first...but then I got an email informing me about Halo 4...damn...
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I can do that in my head cause I'm a Mentat :smug:
Same, but that was due to a lot of Stats classes and crunching probability related data.
Nothing Mentat-esque about it in my case, just an ordinary Ecologist's day at work.
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I can do that in my head cause I'm a Mentat :smug:
Same, but that was due to a lot of Stats classes and crunching probability related data.
Nothing Mentat-esque about it in my case, just an ordinary Ecologist's day at work.
plus no cranberry stained lips.
So I just saved a server farm from the xenos threat and was awarded a new Heavy Major for my trouble.
Steve Martin.
I immediately set his nick to "The Jerk" and I'm hoping against hope if I get a mission at the gas station map and a stream of plasma misses him he yells "He hates these cans. Stay away from the cans!"
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What's that CIC? The Psi Testing has produced our first batch of qualified operatives? Let's see...
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2gvvwpk.jpg)
Vanguard Shepard...
xenos are ****ed
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Here's a little balance mod for you.
Based on the Warspace Extension mod, but with my own tweaks and additions. The gist of it?
WEAPON REBALANCE:
normal guns - average, all around decent weapons. Can be used trought the whole game. Requires ammo (pistols too)
lasers - accurate as hell, don't require ammo, good criticals. But low damage.
plasma - high damage, high criticals, poor accuracy. requires ammo (pistols too)
Arc Thrower uses pistol slot
ARMOR:
pretty much the same as the Extension mod. Armor will protect you better. Heavier armor adds inventory slots.
SOLDIERS & ALIENS:
- Will only get injured if the extra HP provided by armor goes away. But if it does, they'll spend a LOT of time out of action. You WILL need replacements.
- crit & aim bonuses removed from aliens. Some aliens beefed up (especially starting ones) with more HP.
- smaller, faster aliens are harder to hit. Bigger ones are easier to hit.
BASE REBALANCE:
- alien corpses cost double
- base mantainance costs 60% more (probably not enough. Thinking of doubling it)
- 6 soldiers cna be testes in PSI tanks at once
- tweaked country finances.
and so on...
[attachment deleted by a basterd]
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http://sinepost.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/randomness-vs-canniness/
I'm glad that when I was playing around with the probabilities in XCOM, I also noticed this.
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Well, Yahtzee likes this: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/6468-XCOM-Enemy-Unknown
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:bump:
To this day I consider Jagged Alliance 2 the pinnacle of squad-based tactical shooters.
:yes:
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So I've been playing Slingshot to try and detox from losing forumites, and I have to say that while it's not really what I'd think of first when making DLC, it's actually not badly done in any sense so far.
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So having completed Slingshot, I can make a few observations.
It pits you against some high-level enemies earlier than you'd normally see them, but in manageable numbers. The final part is kind of Monty Hall, but unless you rushed straight for lasers there's a possibility it'll still be a hard fight. I ended up having to take a pair of rookies too.
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So how does Slingshot work anyway?
Do you just play a normal game, and the quest pops up as a council mission or something? And after it's done, you get to use the new guy and everything to finish the regular game?
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When the first council mission pops up, you get the option to do random missions like the original game, or the Slingshot sequence of three over the next month (a little longer, really) followed by any random missions the game decides to generate.
After the first one you get the dude. (He's a Heavy and will outrank anyone on your team at that point.) The second is just a setup to mess with the navigational data the aliens are using. The third, where you actually conduct an assault on an alien battleship in mid-air and hijack it, comes next fairly quickly but not immediately after it.
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This game still sounds interesting...
Maybe it will be up for a sale action which is bound to happen between christmas and new years eve on Steam.
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This game still sounds interesting...
Maybe it will be up for a sale action which is bound to happen between christmas and new years eve on Steam.
Well well well, speak of the devil... the holiday sale is on and X-COM is currently 25% off, will likely be a daily or lightning deal soon.
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This game still sounds interesting...
Maybe it will be up for a sale action which is bound to happen between christmas and new years eve on Steam.
Well well well, speak of the devil... the holiday sale is on and X-COM is currently 25% off, will likely be a daily or lightning deal soon.
That's what I'm talking about :)