Poll

do you think we should, you know...

I am an american and I think we should
25 (26%)
I am american and I don't think we should
14 (14.6%)
I am american and don't care what hapens
4 (4.2%)
I am not american and I think we (you) should
11 (11.5%)
I am not american and I don't think we (you) should
32 (33.3%)
I am not american and I don't care what you do
7 (7.3%)
I am american living elsewhere and will do it myself if they don't!
3 (3.1%)

Total Members Voted: 94

Voting closed: March 12, 2003, 05:52:55 pm

Author Topic: Iraq?  (Read 141667 times)

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Offline Razor

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Quote
Originally posted by Warlock



reading half what you say ... I think I must live on a different planet than you do.

Hmmm Tyrant : Forces themselves into a controlling position.

Bush : Elected. Yea some may hate him...some may wish they changed a vote....but he was elected. :rolleyes:


If I remember the story, he ellected himself as president because he has connections and crap.

Now lets see Tyrant. Well he threatens the suverenity (sp) of other countries, makes his own UN resolutions without an approval from the UN, he goes to war on Iraq without an approval from the UN SC, threatens other countries with the use of force (tm) (and hopes it won't become necessery :rolleyes: )
I wouldn't be surprised to see US attack Iraq with nukes when they loose this war.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2003, 04:10:20 pm by 581 »

 

Offline Warlock

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Quote
Originally posted by kode


no, I believe it was your turn to make assumptions about me.


Where did I do that ?

You said you boycotted France for testing Nukes,....yet not the US because we tested them before you were born.... that is hypocritical....sorry.

I just didn't get the "We all know US hates Euros" mess.
Warlock



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We may rise and fall, but in the end
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Offline Turnsky

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and the french sold iraq a nuclear reactor a long while ago.... then it was bombed by the israelis (airstrike)....... saddam apparently managed to put together one nuke (from the remains), but hasn't used it to my knowledge...
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Offline Warlock

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Quote
Originally posted by Razor


If I remember the story, he ellected himself as president because he has connections and crap.

Well we know you're a Mike Moore fan... that right there is reason enough to ignore any further comments. :rolleyes:

besides if that were true ... don't ya think Perot would have been elected when he ran ? Millionare and all that his old ass was.

Least you're correct about the "story" part...that's all it is.

Quote

Now lets see Tyrant. Well he threatens the suverenity (sp) of other countries, makes his own UN resolutions without an approval from the UN, he goes to war on Iraq without an approval from the UN SC, threatens other countries with the use of force (tm) (and hopes it won't become necessery :rolleyes:)
I wouldn't be surprised to see US attack Iraq with nukes when they loose this war. [/B]


Ummm the UN made them guy ,...go on ... look it up.

By the rest of that .... half the friggin planet is tyranical....especially anyone that ever disagrees with the "almighty" Un  LOL

You might be surprised thou ... since I doubt we'll lose this war (Damn we've lost less than 100....we might not win :doubt: ) and if we did .... we're not going to nuke them LOL Geeeeeeeez. Watching too many "End of the World" flicks?
Warlock



DeathAngel Squadron, Forever remembered.


Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon

To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.

We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together

 

Offline kode

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Quote
Originally posted by Warlock


Where did I do that ?

You said you boycotted France for testing Nukes,....yet not the US because we tested them before you were born.... that is hypocritical....sorry.

I just didn't get the "We all know US hates Euros" mess.


so I'm a hypocrit. I know that for a fact. Question is, what are you gonna do about it?

and that you didn't get that makes you one of few. American citizens I have counted as friends has vividly expressed their hate for europeans, which obviously gives me teh wrongy impression of americans of the people? I read the papers, I see the stats on american peoples opinions. sometimes I even think them over.
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
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<Redfang> You're almost like Stryke 9 or an0n
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
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Offline kode

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Quote
Originally posted by Turnsky
and the french sold iraq a nuclear reactor a long while ago.... then it was bombed by the israelis (airstrike)....... saddam apparently managed to put together one nuke (from the remains), but hasn't used it to my knowledge...


and the US sold robots to iraq a long while ago...
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
- Ambrose Bierce
<Redfang> You're almost like Stryke 9 or an0n
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
- Aldous Huxley
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

  

Offline Turnsky

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it's the truth..... saw it in a documentary not too long ago (last week)....
   //Warning\\
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do not torment the sleep deprived artist, he may be vicious when cornered,
in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
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and less likely to stab you in the eye with a mechanical pencil
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Offline Warlock

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Quote
Originally posted by kode


so I'm a hypocrit. I know that for a fact. Question is, what are you gonna do about it?


Prolly laugh

Quote

and that you didn't get that makes you one of few. American citizens I have counted as friends has vividly expressed their hate for europeans, which obviously gives me teh wrongy impression of americans of the people? I read the papers, I see the stats on american peoples opinions. sometimes I even think them over. [/B]


That's just sad :doubt:

Being one of our biggest Allies (not just in the current conflict) is the UK. But seriously I can see how you'd get that idea from ppl online *shrug* To my experience ,... that's not a country wide feeling thou.
Warlock



DeathAngel Squadron, Forever remembered.


Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon

To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.

We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together

 

Offline Turnsky

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if you don't believe me Kode, look at this then...


Cutting Edge: Saddam's friends

   
 Produced in 2003, SADDAM’S FRIENDS showing on SBS Television on Tuesday, March 25 at 8.30pm, looks at how Western powers, including America, France and Germany, armed Saddam Hussein.

In 1974 the French government, then led by Prime Minister Jacques Chirac, sold Iraq a nuclear reactor in return for lucrative deals including cheap oil. International sceptics asked why an oil rich country would need nuclear power but the French government insisted the reactor would be monitored and would not pose a military threat.

In 1979 Saddam Hussein ordered Iraq’s physicists to redirect their research from peaceful to military applications. One of them, Dr Hussein Sharistani, refused and was tortured and imprisoned in solitary confinement for ten years. In 1981 Israel bombed the plant but the Iran-Iraq war (1980-88) saw an escalation of military support for secular Iraq against fundamentalist Iran. French supplied nuclear fuel, Germany sold Iraq the means of producing chemical and bacteriological weapons and, after a visit by Donald Rumsfeld (now Secretary of Defence), America sold Hussein sophisticated Harpoon missiles. It is also alleged that America sent live viruses, including anthrax, to Iraqi military units.

Former CIA director Gordon Oehler explains how between 1987 and 1989 German companies sold Iraq all the material it needed for another nuclear plant capable of producing nuclear weapons. The program claims that the German government authorised the sale. Kenneth Timmerman, author of “The Death Lobby”, says that it was also German technology which enabled the creation of the toxic chemical gases Hussein dropped on the Kurdish village of Halabja in 1988, killing 5,000 people. Mirage fighter jets from France were used for the mission. Former Defence Minister Jean Pierre Chevenement says Halabja “only took on importance in the 1990s. At the time no one said anything yet the Americans knew all about it.”

At the end of the Iran-Iraq war Timmerman claims that Iraq owed the French the equivalent of 6 billion euros. With the end of the conflict Hussein concentrated on repatriating thousands of Arab scientists and engineers from all over the world and personally supervised their integration into the Iraqi system.

Iraqi nuclear physicist Dr Khidhir Hamza fled Iraq in 1994. He claims that at that time there were 12 000 people involved in researching nuclear weaponry.

SADDAM’S FRIENDS is a French production.
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do not torment the sleep deprived artist, he may be vicious when cornered,
in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Offline Razor

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Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
Ummm the UN made them guy ,...go on ... look it up.


Yeeah like after Bush put a gun up their face they did allright.
What's gonna be next? UN made a resolution which allows US to use strategic weapons at will. Yey hail to the peace making organization. :rolleyes:

 

Offline Razor

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Quote
Originally posted by Warlock

Being one of our biggest Allies (not just in the current conflict) is the UK. But seriously I can see how you'd get that idea from ppl online *shrug* To my experience ,... that's not a country wide feeling thou.


Oh yeah tha's one country and I suppose UK represents entire Europe. Go back to the past and see what Amers said when we were attacked. I remember something like: "Nuke them all" and such....

 

Offline kode

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turnsky: did I say "oh no turnsky, you are teh wrong! no wei could france had sold a reactor to iraq back in the days when iraq was considdered a friendly country. the mere thought of that is proposterous! I hate you for your evil lies and will do for all eternity!!!", or did I say nothing about that, and added that the US had sold robots to iraq in the 80's? I don't really know, I mean, I'm just some stupid tard living with a family of polar bears in some fuct up country up north.
Pray, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy.
- Ambrose Bierce
<Redfang> You're almost like Stryke 9 or an0n
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
- Aldous Huxley
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

 

Offline Turnsky

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sorry...i thought you were being sarcastic...
   //Warning\\
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Offline Warlock

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Quote
Originally posted by Razor


Oh yeah tha's one country and I suppose UK represents entire Europe. Go back to the past and see what Amers said when we were attacked. I remember something like: "Nuke them all" and such....


WTF are you babbling about ?

But yes I gave one example..... :rolleyes:

*sigh* Anyways I don't have all night to read and post,... I've got a girlfriend to play with (Now that she's finally home from work) so I'll continue this in the morning ;)
Warlock



DeathAngel Squadron, Forever remembered.


Do or Do Not,..There Is No Spoon

To Fly Exotic Ships, Meet Exotic People, and Kill Them.

We may rise and fall, but in the end
 We meet our fate together

 

Offline Shrike

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Quote
Originally posted by Razor
Oh yeah. Thank you for reminding me on that your Excellency. I suppose that: Figure it out yourself doesn't really ring a bell does it?
Nope.  You know why?

It's your argument, YOU provide the supporting evidence.

If you actually want to be taken seriously, don't sneer at people and tell them to find evidence themselves.  You'll come off condescending and incompetent.  Do it yourself.  I'm sure as hell not going to look for support for you argument if you can't.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Rictor

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guys, please: for the sake of brevity, post all your arquements in one post, and respond to individual arquements also, dont just make 10 posts



-Threat of force: its not the same..you live in society of your own free will, and therefor exept the laws. However, what the US is doing is making Iraq (or did back in 1991) enter into a conract under threat of force. Thats different that laws, since everyone exepts laws imlicitly..

-The chemical plant was debunked, and even the US admits that it is not, nor was it used to manufacture weapons.

-Those 40 (or whatever) countries that "support the US", only started supporting the US AFTER the war started. Before the war, it was only 4 countries. These countries realized that the US is going to war with or without them, so they decided to "give support" in hopes of getting some money out of it, which they will.

-The fact that  Iraqi soldiers have gasmasks says nothing. The US has gas masks, does that mean they're going to use bio weapons? Its protection, just like all the other countries.

-The inspectors did not have to check under every rock. 300 people, working 12 hours a day..you do the math. The "Coaltion" has found something, but it has been written of as NOT weaponds of mass distruction. They have not found anything that is prohibited. The inspectors, in 3 months, if indeed there were prohibited weapons, would have found SOMETHING, however they did not. You cannot hide thousands of nukes very effectively, nor can you hide factories, since they seem to be a bit inconvenient to move around on short notice..

-1441 was signed by the UN over a year ago. Circumstances change, and 1441 had NO implications of war. They wanted to see if Saddam had weapons, fair enough. But there was no mention of war or anything else. The US states that they have been trying to disarm Saddam for 12 years. Thats just inaccurate. They have ignored him for 12 years, otherwise they would have seen that he was developing weapons.

________________________________
Shrike: Bush is a tyrant in so many ways, that I cannot name them all. For your sake, here are a few. I only say "do your own research" because not only will you find more than I can explain in a few sentences, but if you find the stuff on your own it will have a degree of validity which I cannot provide..fair?

-Bush has started a war which will kill thousands of Iraqi civlians, WITHOUT concrete proof, or UN go ahead.

-Bush has proclaimed to the world that his opinion is supreme. In naming the "axis of evil", he has basically said "I decide who has what..Korea cant have nukes because I'm the boss, and I decide who is right"

-Bush caused a HUGE humanitarian crisis by bombing Afganistan and Iraq. What you have to realize is that the Iraqi people are faultless, yet it is they who are getting screwed the most. Bush has prevent convoys with food and medicine from entering Iraq (these supplies were purchased with Iraqi government money, and were destined for relief to the Iraqi people). Bombs kill people, you have to understand that. Also, destroying electtic plants and other "infrastructure" places, he has put the civialian polpulation in harsh condition. Do you really think that water filtering plannts or the like are military targets?

-More to come

________________

People, post you opinions in a collected manner, regarding specific arguements

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Conclusion from reading this thread: War sucks.
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Conclusion from reading the four pages of garbage that have been spontaneously generated in the last hour or so (yeah, including lame incorporated thread): People who pretend to know something in an informational vacuum are lamers.

 
Iraq - The Great Thread - all war news goes here
Quote
-1441 was signed by the UN over a year ago. Circumstances change, and 1441 had NO implications of war. They wanted to see if Saddam had weapons, fair enough. But there was no mention of war or anything else. The US states that they have been trying to disarm Saddam for 12 years. Thats just inaccurate. They have ignored him for 12 years, otherwise they would have seen that he was developing weapons.


people seem to forget this, and as well as the 12 years worth of PRIOR resolutions Iraq has brushed off. AND IF I RECALL CORRECTLY:

IN 1991, Iraq signed a surrender-non aggresion pact with the US/UN for a cease fire/&  too disarm and allow Sadam to remain in power. The statement i remember (YES I WAS 10 YRS OLD AND REMMEBER IT), was that if the following accord (to disarm), wasnt followed, it would break the treaty and we would be allowed to re-continue our attack on Iraq.

DUDES THIS WAS 12 YEARS AGO I THINK WE AS A NATION HAS BEEN LENIENT ENOUGH!

and i agree with RAZOR...

NUKE EM ALL. (but in the real world, just drop a few MOABS, or in other situations, do what our 7th Calvary did today, mow down 300 soldiers in the sandstorm.).

(now ima run in a corner with some Asbestos anti-flaming suit)...:nervous:

 

Offline Stryke 9

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Yeah, lez all go shoot up some dirty towelhead sand nigger a-rabs! I wan' take a gun and shoot a couple their rat chilluns mah self, or ride a bomb all the way down like that guy in that movie I never understood! YEEEEE-HAAA!


Seriously, if you're gonna act like an idiot, be prepared to be mocked like an idiot. Self-inflicted injury. Unless you really are an idiot and just can't help it, in which case you have no business learning how to operate basic computer software and should go back to stacking blocks and crapping yourself at random moments.

At any rate, it was the UN which was granted the prerogative to attack or not, and they've decided not to. The US going ahead and doing it in the face of international law is comparable to a cop letting a guy go because there's not any conclusive evidence he's done anything, then a vigilante capturing and lynching the guy because he's pretty sure they guy did whatever it was anyway.
Even if it turns out that the hanged man was guilty all along (far from the case right now), it's still a lynching, and it's still a crime. Killing people because something might be happening, although you have absolutely no evidence of it (in fact, the only thing close to "solid" evidence the government ever had has since turned out to be a forgery by MI6, and a bad one) is criminal behavior, and since Bush is so much for the death penalty, I think he's one to deserve it.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2003, 07:00:35 pm by 262 »