[Kazan]

kara: you're not suppose to think about that

[Tiara]

The Bible was written by the same people who said Earth was flat. It doesn't have a lot of credibility in my eyes.

[Jiggyhound]

i beleive we  cant take everything the bible says at face value. It was written just thousands of years ago remember, so it had to relate to the people fo the time, who were in comparison to our modern day knowledge, pretty dim. It had to make sense to the people of the time, who, as tiara said, believed the earth was flat.

after all, we KNOW the Earth wasnt created in six days, so i guess genesis was kinda a 'dummed down',  simplified guide to the history of the universe in a somewhat religious context.

[Kazan]

/me applauds Tiara

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Jiggyhound
i beleive we  cant take everything the bible says at face value. It was written just thousands of years ago remember, so it had to relate to the people fo the time, who were in comparison to our modern day knowledge, pretty dim. It had to make sense to the people of the time, who, as tiara said, believed the earth was flat.

after all, we KNOW the Earth wasnt created in six days, so i guess genesis was kinda a 'dummed down',  simplified guide to the history of the universe in a somewhat religious context.

The problem with that sort of approach is that if you start saying that the bible isn't the 100% literal word of God how do you decide what was dumbed down and what was added by priests later to fit their agendas.

Originally posted by Kazan
kara: you're not suppose to think about that

I personally think that you're not meant to think about large sections of the bible. For instance the story of Job. Everyone holds that up as an example why you should be faithful to God but he comes off as an unbelievably arrogant bastard in the story.

Here's a diety who stands back and lets Satan heap abuse on Job just so he can win a bet. Why am I suddenly reminded of the movie Trading Places?

 On top of that his idea of making things right for allowing Satan to kill all his children is just to bless him to let him have twice as many more. The same God of resurrection doesn't believe that it would be putting things right to bring the original ones back to life

[Omniscaper]

Tiara, don't go there. The Bible never taught that the Earth was flat. The Old Testament made an illustration of the Earth as rounded in Isaiah 40:22 which was written a good number of centuries ( I forget exact number) before a round earth theory was widely accepted. Its interesting that a writer would go against the popular science of the time and take the flak and redicule instead of taking the easy way and go with popular opinion science. Theres Divine revalation for ya.

If you are skeptical of its validity and believe that the Old Testament was revised over the centuries, then do a google search on the Dead Sea Scrolls. The oldest archeological find of the Word.

[Ghostavo]

Originally posted by TrashMan

Why would he make up perfect?

@Mik - Your logic is flawed form the beginning....
How can an unperfect beeing with his unperfect mind and superficial logic even try to explaina perfect beeing???
God is beyon science and logic...

I have my own theories:

a) Why deons't God show up and do wonders and change the world? Why did he let him/her die?

He didn't. God gave us free will, but allso the responsibility that comes with it. All of our actions have consequences.... If a drunk driver runs over someone, it's not God's will, it's the drivers stupidity.
What about natural phenomenoms? To die from lightining, flood or a brick falling on your head? Well, God created the laws of physics too, and everything in the universe follows them. It's a mtter of multiple factors and chance...not God's will...

Sure...he might interfere, but wouldn't he be trampling our freedom? Wouldn't we than expect Him to come to our aid whenever something happens that we don't like?

b) Can something god forscake it's goodenss?
Sure...look at old Lucy...didn't he turn bad to the core?

A cookie to anyone who can tell where are the contradictions on this (the one quoted, not mine) post!

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by mikhael
Why would a perfect God choose to create imperfect pets?

There's a very simple answer to this, and I'm surprised neither Sesq. nor Setekh posted it. The answer is: Why not?  Romans 9:21 - "Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?"

Originally posted by karajorma
Adam & Eve eat from the tree of life which gave them knowledge of good and evil. Because of this God banished them.

But if they didn't know the difference between good and evil how can it have been evil to eat the apple in the first place?

They wouldn't have known it was evil, but they would have known that they were disobeying God.  God meant for humans to live in blissful ignorance of evil and its consequences.  If you're obeying God and things are going swimmingly, why do anything different?

Originally posted by karajorma
The same God of resurrection doesn't believe that it would be putting things right to bring the original ones back to life

Maybe he didn't mean for them to.  Who can say?  But this doesn't preclude good things for them in the afterlife.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Omniscaper
Tiara, don't go there. The Bible never taught that the Earth was flat. The Old Testament made an illustration of the Earth as rounded in Isaiah 40:22 which was written a good number of centuries ( I forget exact number) before a round earth theory was widely accepted. Its interesting that a writer would go against the popular science of the time and take the flak and redicule instead of taking the easy way and go with popular opinion science. Theres Divine revalation for ya.

If you are skeptical of its validity and believe that the Old Testament was revised over the centuries, then do a google search on the Dead Sea Scrolls. The oldest archeological find of the Word.

I never said trhe Bible taught that, I said it was written by people who thought the Earth was flat (or even had an end to it cause many thought Earth was all there was at that time).

But at that time theyu thought the Earth was at the center of the Universe, people would never reach the stars, that people couldn't fly, etc, etc, etc, etc...

In other words; The Bible was written by people who in my eyes were just plain ignorant and didn't bother to look further then their noses. All they needed was some "almight, omnipetent being" and no further explaination.

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by Tiara
I never said trhe Bible taught that, I said it was written by people who thought the Earth was flat...

Maybe they did think that, but they didn't write it in the Bible.

Moses lived as an Egyptian prince for forty years and undoubtedly learned all kinds of Egyptian science, medicine, astronomy, etc.  Yet in the five books of the Bible he wrote, we find none of it.  If he were making it up out of whole cloth, don't you think he would have included some of the leading knowledge of the time?

[Ace]

To be honest, round Earth theories were going around since the time of Sumeria. (pre-dating the old testament since the Biblical flood story is based off of the Sumerian flood stories) The Egyptians finally had enough proof (the whole stick and shadow length experiment) to silence the opposition.

All that the fact that the writer used the round Earth theory in the Bible proves is that he/she was well educated.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Goober5000
Moses lived as an Egyptian prince for forty years and undoubtedly learned all kinds of Egyptian science, medicine, astronomy, etc.  Yet in the five books of the Bible he wrote, we find none of it.  

That just shows the ignorance. He knew but yet he discards it and decides that its all up to God.

Personally, if there even is a God I think he has an alien anal probe stuck up his ass for letting such "prose" be "His word".

[Omniscaper]

I guess popular infallible science should always get the benefit of the doubt. Like the science of a 30 years ago that suggested that pregnant women should SMOKE to keep their weight down. I give Moses credit for recognizing the flawed science spawned by a culture of polytheists. When a person gets to be in the presence of God, I think its safe to take His word over theirs.

[Ghostavo]

To those here who are religious I'd like to ask you this...

- How can you believe/follow a "being" who you don't know anything about? Is he really going to redempt (sp?) your "soul"? And how do you know that? (please do not respond about some book, etc...)

[Ace]

Originally posted by Omniscaper
I guess popular infallible science should always get the benefit of the doubt. Like the science of a 30 years ago that suggested that pregnant women should SMOKE to keep their weight down. I give Moses credit for recognizing the flawed science spawned by a culture of polytheists. When a person gets to be in the presence of God, I think its safe to take His word over theirs.

Well smoking *does* keep the weight down, due to cancer

Ohh yes! Polytheists are so evil and primitive! Go monotheism!!!!!!!!1111oneoneone

[Blaise Russel]

Originally posted by Omniscaper
I guess popular infallible science should always get the benefit of the doubt.

The thing about science is that it's self correcting. Anybody who takes science to be infallible is kinda missing the entire point of science.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Blaise Russel


The thing about science is that it's self correcting. Anybody who takes science to be infallible is kinda missing the entire point of science.

Unlike religion, science acknowledges it when its wrong. It amends itself. Religion tends to banter on about one thing. If someone says otherwise... BURN HERETIC! BURN!!!!

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by Ghostavo
To those here who are religious I'd like to ask you this...

- How can you believe/follow a "being" who you don't know anything about? Is he really going to redempt (sp?) your "soul"? And how do you know that? (please do not respond about some book, etc...)

Well, I read this book...

And I've also seen people who've become Christians have their lives totally changed by it.  I've seen tremendous good come out of both Christian mission organizations and Christians working around campus.  I've talked to people who have been miraculously healed and who have known friends or strangers who have been miraculously healed.

Doubt me?  Find a Christian you know personally (a real one, not a hypocrite ) who's been one a while and you'll probably hear the same things.

[Kazan]

who CLAIM to have beem miracullously healed -- what they _THINK_ and what is reality are two different things.  Theists truely do suffer from a form of psychosis.  They do everything possible to twist their preception to support their position because it's emotionally appealing.

I've argued with more christians than you can imagine - them just "SAYING X" doesn't mean "X IS TRUE".

You really have no real proof of him and yet you claim to - intellectual dishonesty at it's finest

[Ghostavo]

I didn't ask about the christians themselves... that I can easily see for myself (my country is 99% Roman Catholic (sp?) last time I checked!!)

What I did ask was about god himself, how can someone truly know god is... well... good for one thing... how do you know he is not the "devil"? (I'm not asking about the christian religion, but religions in general) How can you trust god without having any knowledge about him?