[Rictor]

And would you hesitate to kill them if it meant that a person could live a better live becuase of it? As I said though, I'm not really happy with my definition...

[Bobboau]

all I was saying was that they were consitered alive

[Beowulf]

Why is the murder of innocent children a good thing? Perhaps I've missed this.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Beowulf
Why is the murder of innocent children a good thing? Perhaps I've missed this.

foetus != child

[SadisticSid]

The whole viability thing is a moot point if one considers accidental pregnancy a unique consequence of a particular brand of self-indulgence (in most cases; rape of course is the exception). In most cases people can correct things that go wrong with their lives, but in pregnancy it's not just one's life that's at stake. The simple answer to avoid accidental pregnancy is to avoid sex.

[redmenace]

Originally posted by Bobboau


I'm adopted, as is my sister.

THAT IS SO AWESOME. 4 out of 5 of my brothers and sisters are adopted.

Originally posted by Tiara


foetus != child

the japenese-WWII example again.
pieces of wood=POWs and manchurians
WWII-Concentration camps
jews=sub Human

if you convince your self that "fetus" is not human or subhuman, or not a person then you can easily see a growing baby as a malicous tumor and not as a real human being.

[Ghostavo]

A fetus "could" be considered a "person", when (I don't now exactly if it has right away or if it takes a bit longer, sorry) it has all organs fully developed (similar state to a newborn child) and it has self-awareness.

A fetus (the one you are talking about) is human. You cannot possibly say it is not, as it would go against all the logic of considering a child being the same species as an adult. Now a person... that may be open to discussion.

[redmenace]

I believe that part of the core issue is psychological also.

[Rictor]

redmenace: do you feel bad when eating an egg? It could have turned out to be a tiny little cute baby chicken, but instead you ate it. Most people don't have a problem with that cause the baby chicken has not yet started to form and is just a yellow gloop when it is eaten,

[Tiara]

Originally posted by redmenace
if you convince your self that "fetus" is not human or subhuman, or not a person then you can easily see a growing baby as a malicous tumor and not as a real human being.

A foetus is a part of the body. Like any other part of the body, on it's own it is NOT sentient. Untill it is born it is not a living, breathing, sentient being. It is a part of your body and any woman should have the right to decide over her own body.

As for the adopted ones here, consider yourself lucky. A large part ends up in a foster home which is not a funny thing. I know, I've lived there for four years. So, don't give me that crap about 'unwanted kids almost always get a good home'.

[karajorma]

And lets not forget that not every unwanted kid is given up by their parents. There are plenty of people stupid enough to get pregnant but not smart enough to realise that giving up their children for adoption would be the only way to give them any kind of chance in life.

Let's face it the number of idiots who keep their children is quite high. Turn on any daytime talk show like Sally or Trisha and you'll see exactly what I mean.

[redmenace]

Originally posted by Tiara




A foetus is a part of the body. Like any other part of the body, on it's own it is NOT sentient. Untill it is born it is not a living, breathing, sentient being. It is a part of your body and any woman should have the right to decide over her own body.

Congradulations tiara, there is no difference between you and slave owners, you and nazis, between you and the japenese doctors, between you and anyone else that wishes to give something a special name inorder to avoid the sheer consequences of murder or their immoral(general inalienable human rights) actions in general. I must wonder what must go through the mind of a baby when saline salt( I believe this is a method) is put into the womb and the baby's skin starts to feel like it is burning.

[Rictor]

redmenace: nothing at all. The baby if you want to call it that, doesn't think. All these other cases you mentioned, the oppressed were all of equal mental ability. So its not the same at all. Just accept that the baby is not sentient and has no "thoughts", any more than a tree does. Otherwise, I would be against abortion.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by redmenace

Congradulations tiara, there is no difference between you and slave owners, you and nazis, between you and the japenese doctors, between you and anyone else that wishes to give something a special name inorder to avoid the sheer consequences of murder or their immoral(general inalienable human rights) actions in general.

Ok, you just went over the line. First of all, you little prick, it's not murder because it's NOT ALIVE.

I must wonder what must go through the mind of a baby when saline salt( I believe this is a method) is put into the womb and the baby's skin starts to feel like it is burning.

NOTHING. Abso-f*cking-lutely nothing. BECAUSE ITS NOT ALIVE!

Do you remember what you felt in the womb? No because you weren't sentient.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by redmenace

Congradulations tiara, there is no difference between you and slave owners, you and nazis, between you and the japenese doctors, between you and anyone else that wishes to give something a special name inorder to avoid the sheer consequences of murder or their immoral(general inalienable human rights) actions in general. I must wonder what must go through the mind of a baby when saline salt( I believe this is a method) is put into the womb and the baby's skin starts to feel like it is burning.

Careful there. Feel free to attack her opinion, but not her.

[redmenace]

Originally posted by Tiara

Ok, you just went over the line.

What line. I just drew what I feel is a accurate comparison. If you don't like, thats tuff. but honestly there is no difference.

[redmenace]

Originally posted by Styxx


Careful there. Feel free to attack her opinion, but not her.

I am. Her opinion and view is in line with the nazis' view and opinion of how they justified their mission and goal as far as the jews were concerned.

*sorry for the bad grammer*

[Tiara]

Originally posted by redmenace

I am, her opinion and view is in line with the opinion and view of the nazis view and opinion and how they justified their mission and goal as far as the jews were concerned.

Screw you, ok?

This is NOTHING like that. Comparing me to a Nazi just goes too far.

Besides, I can say the same for you. You think all women are evil and mean **** to you.

Now, I'm entitled to my opinion and you're entitled to disagree. Just don't be such a prick about it.

[Goober5000]

People excused slavery by calling their slaves "property" (c.f. Dred Scott v. Sanford).  People excuse abortion by calling their unborn children, in effect, "property".

History repeats itself yet again.

[redmenace]

Originally posted by Tiara

Screw you, ok?

This is NOTHING like that. Comparing me to a Nazi just goes too far.

Besides, I can say the same for you. You think all women are evil and mean **** to you.

Now, I'm entitled to my opinion and you're entitled to disagree. Just don't be such a prick about it.

Only apology I will make is that of not realizing that Europeans are far more sensative to the subject of the Nazis. And especially being compared to one. I apologize. But my point still stands.