[Grey Wolf]

Kazan, would you mind calming down?

[Kazan]

No, I'm completely and utterly sick and tired of encountering brainwashed minions of Neoconservative wannabie dictators, and then having those brainwashed minions be so resistant to thinking for themselves that i want to bludgeon their heads in and remove them from the gene pool

You fundamantalists all subscribe to GROUPTHINK -- It's disgusting to see people deny medical FACT to support their insistance that they have the right to control women's bodies

Look at the quote from Page 108 of the Fundamentals of Extremism - in short one of your kind sade 'men and fetuses always have the right to life, women give that up when they become pregnant'

The prolife movement is just another extension of the neoconservatives trying to keep women as property - BAREFOOT AND PREGANANT, uneducated so they cannot get away from their abusers.



Ignorance, and the arrogance that makes you think you have the right to dictate to others how they're going to make medical decisions via judgements you made in ignorance should be considered a crime against humanity

[01010]

Seriously, I'm giving your heart like, three years at the most you keep stressing yourself out like this.

[Kazan]

Rotfl, see you in 90 years

I don't have hypertension, and me being 'angry' doesn't mean i'm stressed - it means i want to put my boot up your ass

[Grey Wolf]

I was just referring to the fact that mass insulting of forumites tends to lead to bannings.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by Flipside
I am sure you all are aware of the anguish it causes most women to even terminate a month or so old foetus, you should realise that it is never an easy decision to make.

Abortion is a last resort, not a contraceptive, women choose to have abortions because of many reasons, quite a lot of them are actually social or finiacial. If pro-lifers want to stop abortions happening, they should turn their energy to the problems and not the symptoms.

[01010]

Originally posted by Kazan
Rotfl, see you in 90 years

I don't have hypertension, and me being 'angry' doesn't mean i'm stressed - it means i want to put my boot up your ass

Why my ass in particular? I'm just as pro death as you are, I just don't care to sugarcoat my words.

[Kazan]

01010: 'pro-choice' is completely different than pro-death

Do I see abortion as a viable option? Yes, if the need arises - but we prevent hat need from arising through condoms and BC -- my GFs been off BC for two months -- she needed to clean her system out of other stuff - she's been playing with what type because it gives her libido problems

no problem with her getting pregnant because we know what a condom is .. now she is on BC - hopefully this low dose stuff won't have the negative side effects the normal-strength stuff did.

I prevent the NEED for an abortion by being smart - but condoms can fail, and EC can fail so then you'd need an abortion.   If you're not ready financially/emotionally to bring a child into this world then you ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT - It's an act of abuse.  

Even worse - i consider allowing a clearly disabled (downs, etc) fetus  to be born an unforgiveable act of abuse - of the child and of society

[01010]

Originally posted by Kazan
Rotfl, see you in 90 years

Pfft, the rate I'm going I'll be dead by 45 and I'd have loved every single ****ing minute of it.

[Kazan]

01010: you'll be dead sooner than that i bet [but not by my hand]

and i'll still be rock climbing at 90 and by then enjoying having put an end to the fundamentalist movement

[01010]

**** it, not like I care, it's the people who care about me that I'm bothered about. I must be the only person I know that really isn't fazed by death in the slightest. It happens, oh well.

Having said this now, I bet I live to like a ****ing 100 years old and get to the point where I'm begging people to euthanise me. God damn laws.

[Kazan]

Death doesn't bother me, but i still want to live life to the fullest - that means LENGTH and HEALTH

[Su-tehp]

Originally posted by Su-tehp
Morality has nothing to do with the law. The law is in place to keep society functioning. Many moral systems (from religion or spiritual beliefs or whatever) dovetail with the law in many places, the prohibition against murder for one. But the law forbids murder because a society could not function if people wantonly killed each other with impunity, while religion/morality forbids it because it is wrong to rob another person of his life. Same result but for different reasons.

Seeing as how America has people of many different religions due to its Constitutional clause of religious freedom, it's the height of imbecility and stupidity to say that Christian morality is the system that should rule America. There are Jews, Muslims, Bhuddists, Wiccans and many other religions practiced here in America. To make one system of morality above the rest would shortchange everyone who is not of that morality. That's unconstitutional, so it is forbidden. America has MANY moralities, not just the Christian one.

(Hell, there are as many Christian moralities as there are Christians. Not every Christian agrees with every tenet of their church. My mother was the best Catholic I ever knew, and she was pro-choice, just like all of her other friends, Catholic, Jewish or otherwise.)

The law is NOT governed by the Bible, but by the Constitution. Morality is irrelevant; it's the Constitution that governs in matters of the law. I went to law school, I know this.

Originally posted by Beowulf
Murder is illegal. Why? Why is it wrong to take the life of someone? Because you hurt them? No, because by taking the life of someone, you're doing just that: taking their life; denying that person the right to live. By killing the fetus you are denying a future human being his life--if all was left to natural process that child would have a very high chance of survival. By intervening and destroying that developing human you are denying him something that is his fundamental right: his life.

Beowulf, re-read my above post. Murder is NOT illegal because many religions say it is immoral. Murder is illegal because a society could not function if its members couldn't go to work and live their lives if they were afraid they'd get killed by robbers and rapists if they just stepped outside their own front door. Murder is illegal to keep society functioning. Morality and the law, while they may dovetail in certain places, are NOT the same thing at all. There are several things mentioned in the Bible that are forbidden as being immoral, but are not prohibited by the law. It's not illegal to be homosexual, for instance.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Kazan
Death doesn't bother me, but i still want to live life to the fullest - that means LENGTH and HEALTH

You forgot quality. I consider health to be a part of quality, so is comes down to lenght and quality.

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Kazan
[size=32]Pro-life, that's a lie! You don't care if women die![/size]

[size=32]Pro-choice, that's a lie! You don't care if humans don't choose to die![/size]

[Kazan]

Doesn't have the correct ring - AND it contains debatable definitions

a "baby" is already born, and can survive outside it's mothers body

[Beowulf]

Fixed.

Just so you know, a human is a human. Just like a plant is a plant.

[Bobboau]

I think his point was makeing it brightly colored and oversized doesn't make it righter

[Kazan]

Beowulf: it still doesn't have it the peotic ring

You act as if human life is somehow special - other than us having evolved big brains - we're not

Until the 'date of viability' the fetus is part of the mothers body - and NO MATTER WHAT - as long as it's in her it's a health decision for her - an unborn doesn't have a right to life - you don't have a right to life, you have a right not to be killed - but that's not a right to live

if you are fatally ill and it would cost a million dollars to cure you - it's not the public's responsibility to pay - if you had a 'right to life' then it conceivably could be


please stick to the REAL rights - equality, freedom, privacy

[Grey Wolf]

None of which are fully defined in the Constitution. And the right to privacy only exists in state and federal laws.