Author Topic: March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC  (Read 15014 times)

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Offline Goober5000

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March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp
Have an abortion in another state? That  situation already exists. 87% of all US counties DON'T have an abortion provider. For the poor women who need an abortion the most, they can't afford to make the trip to another state to get the abortion.
How much does an abortion itself cost?  Surely more than the trip itself.  And if organizations like Planned Parenthood are willing to defray the cost of abortions, it wouldn't be a big step past that to defray the cost of travel as well.
Quote
Now this is exactly why I say conservatives are hypocrites. They're all for getting the government out of people's lives, unless, of course, the people want to do something that would go against "christian values."
This has nothing to do with Christianity.  The conservative view of government is that it exists merely to safeguard the rights of its citizens.  The people should be free to act however they like, so long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others.  Mothers should not be free to have abortions because that infringes upon the unborn child's right to live.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Originally posted by Rictor
So you believe that a baby is any more alive in the third trimester than in the first? On almost every definition of "alive" (from both sides), the stage of the pregnancy is irrelevant.  

I supose I have a slightly looser definition of 'alive'. I fail to see how a fetus can suddenly become alive the instant it pops out of mom as much as it being alive the instant a sperm enters an egg. it isn't till about the last month or so of pregnancy that it seems to become more alive, more of a self contained entity, than anything else (by this time I don't see why someone would have waited that long to abort).
my defenition is sort of a test if it's far enough allong that if it was cut out it could realisticly survive for a year, then it's far enough along to be considered alive. wich (along with my 'why the **** did you wait that long' mentality) is were I got my idea for the compromise, wich I'd expect neither side to accept becase there both to bussy makeing sure that the other side doesn't 'get it's foot in the door' (any further) to think.
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Offline Su-tehp

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Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
How much does an abortion itself cost?  Surely more than the trip itself.  And if organizations like Planned Parenthood are willing to defray the cost of abortions, it wouldn't be a big step past that to defray the cost of travel as well.


Then why not have the federal government defray those costs? Why have a non-profit organization do it?

Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
This has nothing to do with Christianity.  The conservative view of government is that it exists merely to safeguard the rights of its citizens.  The people should be free to act however they like, so long as they don't infringe upon the rights of others.  Mothers should not be free to have abortions because that infringes upon the unborn child's right to live.


Under American law, a human being is only a person if it is born alive. Unborn fetuses, by definition, are not born, so they don't have a right to live.

And abortion is a FUNDAMENTAL right, protected by the US constitution. Therefore, the government has no say to infringe on women's right to an abortion. Your contention that women "shouldn't" have such a right is irrelevant. What are you basing that contention on, anyway? The Bible?

You just outsmarted yourself, Goob.
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Offline Kosh

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Lots of people here in America believe that the war in Iraq was connected to the war on terror. Even those who didn't believe that a year ago (like me) do believe ever since the ****storm in Fallujah at the start of April that Iraq is now connected to the larger war on terrorism if it wasn't before. That might be a big reason people here in the US haven't protested the Iraq war as much as Europe.


Even though that was one big lie (and lots and lots of smaller ones). I find it unbelievable that this country is practicly willing to crusify someone for lieing about having an affair YET does the exact opposite when someone lies about the reason they sent people off to DIE.
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Offline Janos

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Quote
Originally posted by Kosh


Even though that was one big lie (and lots and lots of smaller ones). I find it unbelievable that this country is practicly willing to crusify someone for lieing about having an affair YET does the exact opposite when someone lies about the reason they sent people off to DIE.


If teenage horror flicks have taught me anything, it's that SEX MAKES YOU DIE. Thus, it's better to kill people outright than let them commit a sin, then die.
lol wtf

 

Offline redmenace

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Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp

And abortion is a FUNDAMENTAL right, protected by the US constitution. Therefore, the government has no say to infringe on women's right to an abortion. Your contention that women "shouldn't" have such a right is irrelevant. What are you basing that contention on, anyway? The Bible?

It is not a fundamental right. Fundamental rights are defined basically in the bill of rights. I don't see ANYTHING that pertains to abortion. Yes the fags on the supreme court say a fetus in not "a person." But the definition of a person is extremely limited and is faulty. I mean when does someone become a person? Just when someone cuts the coard or when are removed from the womb? So immediatly when you are birthed you receive constitutional protection and protection under law. This sort of fine border is screwed up. I mean does the child start thinking immediatly when it is birthed? Does it feel when only when it is birthed? Does it feel emotion only when it is birthed? No of course not.
Aditionally, it always amazes me how people refuse to refer to the baby as a baby and only as a fetus. reminds me of the japanese doctors that experimented on POWs in WWII. They refered to the soldiers and manchurians as peices of wood. YOU DO THE SAME TO AN UNBORN CHILD. :hopping:


STOP KILLING MY GENERATION YOU BASTARDS
« Last Edit: April 27, 2004, 03:14:41 am by 887 »
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
So if you feel that way, provide an exception for if the mother if her life is clearly in danger.*  Compared to the total number of abortions that take place, though, this is a very small percentage.  People shouldn't have carte blanche to have an abortion.

* I'm throwing that out for argument's sake; I'm in favor of abortion being illegal in all circumstances.  The mother at this point has lived a significant part of her life already, whereas the infant's life is just beginning.  A century ago, people accepted death during childbirth as a tragic but normal occurrence.  But there's still Ceasarean sections and all the advances of modern medicine to improve the odds.


That's arguement only holds true if you believe that the unborn child is alive. I don't and therefore the entire arguement is moot. You also miss the point that it's quite probably in these cases that any attempt to cary the child to term would result in the death of both the mother and the baby.

The funny thing is that although I am 100% pro-choice I do agree that abortion shouldn't be used as a form of contraception.

However there are many circumstances where pregnacy wasn't caused by some stupid couple not caring about the use of contraception. It is quite possible to become pregnant due to failed contraception.  While that is still the case I view abortion as a necessary evil. No one should be forced to have a child that no only did they not want but that they also took every step possible to prevent the conception of.

Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
So you believe that a baby is any more alive in the third trimester than in the first? On almost every definition of "alive" (from both sides), the stage of the pregnancy is irrelevant. If you believe that babies are God's creatures or whatever, that starts with a single cell. Or if you believe that babies are not alive until they're born, possibly later, the stage is also irrelevant.


Except that I can think of a couple of definations off the top of my head that negate your arguement.

1) A baby is alive once it reaches the stage where it could survive without the mother.

2) A baby is alive once the central nervous system and brain reach a certain point in their development.
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Offline Janos

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1. What does some sky-wizard have to do with anything?
2. Many people who oppose abortion shoot pheasants, crows or something - and I would quite bluntly say they are more conscious than a lump of cells. A human being is a human being because it can think rationally. I doubt a 2-month old fetus is capable of any higher brain activity.
3. See part 1.
lol wtf

 

Offline redmenace

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I am a 23 year old fetus
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Offline Janos

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I never was, I was necromanced just a while ago.
lol wtf

 

Offline redmenace

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I am just surprised that Tiara hasn't come in here yet and said that I am evil or something like that. Or how incredibly wrong we all are.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2004, 05:05:11 am by 887 »
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
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Offline Turambar

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March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC
would you mind if i said how you are evil and wrong you are?

Question: would you rather have a horrbile sick diseased person who will be a cripple for their entire life, or would you have the cure for that disease so that nobody else has to suffer that life?
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Offline Turambar

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All people in Philadelphia who are old enough VOTE FOR SPECTER!!!  why? because the democratic candidate will never win and TOOMEY IS THE MOST CONSERVATIVE OLD WHITE DUDE THAT EVER LIVED!!!!

I'll never become an old white dude, I'll become an old hippie if i have to!!
10:55:48   TurambarBlade: i've been selecting my generals based on how much i like their hats
10:55:55   HerraTohtori: me too!
10:56:01   HerraTohtori: :D

 

Offline Janos

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Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
All people in Philadelphia who are old enough VOTE FOR SPECTER!!!  why? because the democratic candidate will never win and TOOMEY IS THE MOST CONSERVATIVE OLD WHITE DUDE THAT EVER LIVED!!!!

I'll never become an old white dude, I'll become an old hippie if i have to!!


Chill out, dude. Nothing is stupider than a young conservative or an old revolutionary. :D

Your point about stem cell research is sound, and I cannot even understand why USA has limited their research. It's just dumb. Guess we smaller countries pass the large countries on aspects of scientific research. :D
lol wtf

 

Offline Kazan

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March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC
Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
Er... why is the abortion argument always phrased in terms of women's lives?  Is the right to get an abortion really a life-or-death issue?

Well, it is, but not for the woman. :doubt:


INCORRECT - For several reasons

A) Sometimes an abortion must be performed because the pregnancy is threatening the woman's life
B) "illegal" ie 'back-street' abortions cost women their lives very often - safe abortions given in clinics do not


The womans right to bodily integrity supercedes any rights you want to try and grant the featus - until it's born it is part of her body
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Offline redmenace

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Quote
Originally posted by Kazan


INCORRECT - For several reasons

A) Sometimes an abortion must be performed because the pregnancy is threatening the woman's life
B) "illegal" ie 'back-street' abortions cost women their lives very often - safe abortions given in clinics do not


The womans right to bodily integrity supercedes any rights you want to try and grant the featus - until it's born it is part of her body

Sometimes abortion is the only answer. such as a woman HEALTH or life is at stake. My mother had a tubal pregnancy and had no choice. Saying at birth it is no longer of her body it a hard argument to make. The reality is that any part a body will carry that person's DNA. A baby has its own DNA and therefore not part of her body. it is nurished and fed by her body. Through the "cord." Abortion usually occurs for a matter of convenience. My real beef is with these and not matters of women's health(physical). In addition, the point needs to be made that men are also to blame for the situation for not taking responcibility for knocking this girl up. they want some pimped up car instead of being a real f*cking man.
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Offline Kazan

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March for Women's Lives in Washington, DC
A featus does not have a 'right to life' - until such time that it is born it is part of the mother's body.  

PERIOD, END OF STORY

You don't like it? DONT HAVE AN ABORTION

You disagree? Tough ****, your religion doesn't get to be written into our government

You don't like that? Move to a theocrazy, the United States isn't one no matter how much you try and violate our Constitution



-----------------------------

Religion, fundamentalist religion especially, is the excuse and tool of tyrants and fools.  You, the victims, look for simple answers to complex questions and accept them as true simply because they're emotionally appealing, they ease your fears.  Grow up, get some backbone and act like an intelligent life form - the truth is more important that mythology and emotion has no business weighing in on matters of factuality.

You have no evidence, no logic to support your religion, you subscribe to Biblical Literalism - literally interpreting a book that has gone through numberous translations, intentional rewrites.  A book that is of dubious factuality at best, and what little factual historical accounts are present have gone through the legedinization process and have been exaggerated.

Subscription to supernaturality is a symptom of a weak mind and a weak will.  You're simply trying to make yourself feel important because your know the reality is that you're not, you're an individual in a species of 6 billion +, you try and make yourself important by the easiest way - by telling yourself you are until you believe it against your better judgement.  Partially because you refuse to use your better judgement in that realm.  You don't have the guts and the will to make yourself important in reality by doing something good and important, by contributing to the furtherance of our species.  

You then in your arrogance of self-important believe you have the "True word of God" and that everyone should conform to your views since yours are "Inspired by God".  I am sorry, you are not special, your views are illogical and inconsistent, they are based off a BOOK written by HUMANS 1700 years ago (YES! 1700 - the first 'real' bible was assembled then and many parts were discarded it was intentionally made into a misogynistic religion, and jesus was promoted from being a really cool guy into the being the son of god - all at a council of bishops!)

I could go on for hours about your presumption and arrogance, your irrationality and your assault upon the better judgement of our entire species.  I could go on about how your kind WILL be the end of us due to your assault on real education and real science, your refusal to acknowledge the truth and it's long term effects and how it would propagate through our society.  

I see the american government decaying and failing because of your efforts to restrict freedoms and thought, to limit knowledge and thereby wisdom.  I see the collapse of the United States under the weight of an uneducated, unsocialized, irrational mass of people - Fortunately the very things that will cause the death of the United States will prevent the people that caused it from rising to lasting power afterwords - sure in the firefighting and warlording that will take place after the fall some fundamentalist leader and his extremist may gain temporary control over a certain region.  However the others, those who continued to study all that can be learned, to make alliances in the intellectual and international community, those who have study the arts of war and the mind, will win.

Your kind WILL bring the death of the United States if you continue, however fortunately you will NOT rise from the ashes to rule again.  It will be the last blast of fundamentalism in the western world and it will remove fundamentalism from power in the western world for the rest of time!

I see the clouds of war approaching on the distant horizon and I do not know if I should welcome them for the final outcome, or abhor them for the death and discord between now and then!
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Offline Kazan

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Quote
Originally posted by redmenace

ass wipe abandoning his knocked up g/f------>pussy


I agree, however restricting someones choice about reproductive freedom is not an option
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Offline an0n

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Why not?
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Offline redmenace

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Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
would you mind if i said how you are evil and wrong you are?

sure every one is entitled to their opinions. I was just being sarcastic.
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
Question: would you rather have a horrbile sick diseased person who will be a cripple for their entire life, or would you have the cure for that disease so that nobody else has to suffer that life?

I have no problems with abortion in the case of the mothers life is at stake.
Quote
Originally posted by Turambar
All people in Philadelphia who are old enough VOTE FOR SPECTER!!! why? because the democratic candidate will never win and TOOMEY IS THE MOST CONSERVATIVE OLD WHITE DUDE THAT EVER LIVED!!!!

I'll never become an old white dude, I'll become an old hippie if i have to!!

Arlen spector is an idiot. I met him before. He came up with the magic bullet theory....we got a bright one here. Moron, every one knows there was another shoots that killed kennedy,
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