[Janos]

Originally posted by karajorma

It's really getting bad when an atheist like myself understands the message of the bible better than a self proclaimed christian

Hammurab's Law is still somewhere in the old bible, IIRC. Maybe that's what they're after? Because, you know, in Old Testament God also supported genocide and incest.

[Liberator]

Janos, we've been over that, Sesq did a wonderful job explaining that in this thread.

Okay, I'll stop advocating mass aerial bombardment, when those bastards stop hiding behind the women and children, murdering innocent civilians and come out and fight like the men they claim to be!  Oh, wait, they're primary weapons are children with bombs straped to their bodies.

BTW,
Christian != Pacifist;

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Liberator
Okay, I'll stop advocating mass aerial bombardment, when those bastards stop hiding behind the women and children, murdering innocent civilians and come out and fight like the men they claim to be!

And thus you show your true colours. The fact that they hide behind women and children doesn't make it any more more christian for you to advocate the murder of those women and children

Originally posted by Liberator
Oh, wait, they're primary weapons are children with bombs straped to their bodies.

Rubbish. I'm not even aware of single time it was used in Iraq let alone having it as their primary weapon. Wipe the rabid foam from your mouth and try thinking about the issue instead.

Originally posted by Liberator
BTW,
Christian != Pacifist;

I never said it was. But calling for the deaths of millions of innocents in order to kill scores of the guilty is so far from so-called christian values that it's not even funny.

Lets face it. Deliberately killing innocents in order to kill the guilty is murder. This is not a case of collateral damage where you accidently kill innocents while trying to take out a military target. This is a case of you saying I don't care how many innocents I kill as long as I get the guilty too. That is against your own 10 Commandments, one of the cornerstones of the faith you profess to having.

I really shouldn't have to be explaining to you why this is against your own religion Lib.

[Rictor]

I don't recall that Jesus ever declared war on anyone, or advocated murder or retaliation. Maybe I was away that day. Jesus was nothing if not a man of peace, and dictionary example of a pacifist.

And please don't feed me that BS that their primary weapons are children. Their primary weapons are guns, RPGs and homemade explosives. Whenever they use a child or woman as a walking bomb, the media is all over it and so you think thats the norm. Have you ever considered that it is perhaps more noble to sacrifice yourself then to drop bombs from 20 miles up in the air?

And as I've said numerous times, the insurgents in Iraq have yet to even come close to the American number of civilian killings. The fact that you claim they were unavoidable collateral damage isn't going to bring them back, nor is it a valid excuse. Practice what you preach.

[karajorma]

Actually I wasn't including pacifism or collatoral damage in my definitions of what it means to be a christian. The bible is full of examples of war so you can make an arguement for either.

Murder of innocents however is against the supposed values of christianity though. The bible has plenty of examples of that too but even then it was directly ordered by God so unless Liberator is claiming to be be speaking directly to The Big Guy he really shouldn't be advocating it.

[Gank]

Al-Zarqawi's at it again is he, funny that, the guys hes supposed to be working with think hes dead
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-3821536,00.html
This guy Berg seems like a bit of a strange guy:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040513/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_berg&cid=540&ncid=1480
And hez'bollah condemning the killing?
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/13/1084289801959.html
Conspiracy theorists will have a field day with this one.

[Rictor]

Jesus went quietly, without a fight, and let himself be crucified. If thats not pacifism, I don't know what is.

The distinction is, in the Old Testament, God is a major badass. Then, come the New Testament, he gets shipped off to sensitivity training and comes back all kind and caring and purple rainbow chocolate smilies.

edit:

lets see, Israeli stamp on passport, got detained in Iraq for "suspicous activites" and visited several times by FBI agents (wtf is the FBI doing in Iraq?), asking him if he has ever built pipe bombs or been in Iran? Nooo, everything is fine, no need to pay any attention to this. Look, a bird!

[Gank]

Dont forget the anti-semitic and farsi literature.  Kinda strange stuff to be carrying around when you're jewish.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts
bout halfway down,

Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc.,

[Jetmech Jr.]

Originally posted by karajorma

Rubbish. I'm not even aware of single time it was used in Iraq let alone having it as their primary weapon.
 

I never heard of it happening either, but a have heard several cases where childeren were use to smuggle weapons, including a kid who had an AK-47 strapped to the side of his body (leg to underarm). People got suspicious when they realized he was walking without bending his knee.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.
including a kid who had an AK-47 strapped to the side of his body (leg to underarm). People got suspicious when they realized he was walking without bending his knee.

Whoever made that one up was pretty stupid, the kid wouldnt have been able to move let alone walk.

[Jetmech Jr.]

I know, one of the more outrageous stories ( I think it was a Joke), but smaller arms are squeezed past security this way

[Janos]

Originally posted by Liberator

Okay, I'll stop advocating mass aerial bombardment, when those bastards stop hiding behind the women and children, murdering innocent civilians and come out and fight like the men they claim to be!  Oh, wait, they're primary weapons are children with bombs straped to their bodies.

BTW,
Christian != Pacifist;

Two wrongs make one good.

WHAT

I am yet trying to find out the instances the Iraq insurgents (Shia, Sunni) use civilians as tools of their warfare. If I'm wrong, please give a source, then I can reconsider my stance and state myself as having been wrong. Claiming moral superiority while rambling that "they do perverse ****, let's kill them all [even those who have nothing to do with it, except living in an occupied area]" does not do wonders about your image.

According to your weirdo stance on Christianity - where pacifism is no good - should also directly lead you to condemning eating of pork and everyone who have touched your semen being unclean for [insert X number] days?

[Rictor]

Gank: apparently, Free Republic has never heard of usability. Their website is crap, I can't figure out what if anything the news is about. Its just "here are the enemies" and some names of various organizations who endorse a protest that apparently happened on march 20th. What the hell are they trying to draw attention to, its beyond me.

also, from the comments (by the guy who posted the article):

"He is a man in uniform. He is supporting a march that is critical of our government and advocating bringing the troops home. Active duty military are not supposed to be involved in political action."

Janos: touched his semen? thats just plain wierd, even from you.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Rictor

Janos: touched his semen? thats just plain wierd, even from you.

I was referring to his "christian != pacifist".
While that may be true in strictly literal form, it is against what majority of Christians consider to be right. In Old Testament there is quite long really interesting stuff about males and females, semen and "unclean". That is also literally true, though not nowadays considered "right".  In some really vague way of thinking one might equalize the two. What is considered right in OT is not always right in modern world - but what is right in NT is not always a right thing to do either.  If you get what I'm trying to say.

But granted, Lib's statement makes some sense. A personal belief structure does not necessarily overrun your political stances or thoughts about military force or conversion - let me use such a weird term, since I am not a native english speaker and am short of words.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Janos

But granted, Lib's statement makes some sense. A personal belief structure does not necessarily overrun your political stances or thoughts about military force or conversion - let me use such a weird term, since I am not a native english speaker and am short of words.

Really? Isn't god's word supposed to be above everything else?
Religion is so worthless, even those who go to the most stupid lenghts to defend their beliefs stamp happily on it when it's convenient for them. All that is bull****.

[Jiggyhound]

Originally posted by Rictor


If you think one death on your side is a tragedy, think of how the Iraqis feel.

think of how that guy felt as they prepared to hack off his head.

[Flipside]

So this is still about 'who did it first and who did it most'?

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Rictor
Janos: touched his semen? thats just plain wierd, even from you.

Lev.15:16-18 "And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even."

Just hope nobody looks at my google search history for a while or they're going to be wondering what on Earth I was looking for.

[Flipside]

LOL

And should thy seed of copulation not wash out the bedclothes, shalt there be much wailing and gnashing of teeth

Thanks for the explanation btw

[karajorma]

I can just picture it now. Girlfriend goes to use the computer. "unclean blible semen! What the..."