[Rictor]

Isreal is amassing troops around the Rafah refugee camp, in preparation for a massive incursion, I remember a quote from an article saying it would be the largest armoured action in Rafah since the 1967 war. Army bulldozers broke up roads, to prevent the thousands of people from fleeing the iminent destruction. This came after the IDF already leveled more than 100 homes, leaving 1,100 people homeless, and after 20 Palestinians were killed in two air strikes in Rafah.

Originally posted Ariel Sharon in 2002
The IDF (Israeli Defence Force) has to knock down all the houses along a strip of 300 to 400 metres. It doesn't matter what the future settlement will be, this will be the border with Egypt," he said. "Arafat has to be punished, and after every terrorist attack another two or three rows or houses on the Palestinian side of the border have to be knocked down ... This is a long-term policy. We simply have to take a very extreme step. It is do-able and I am happy it is being done, but it's being carried out in doses that are too small, I regret to say. It has to be done in one big operation".

and some statistics on the IDF's demolition of homes in recent years.

[an0n]

The Palestinians should just mass together around a few thousands homes and stand their ground. No fighting, no running, just standing.

They'd probably be butchered, mind.

At the very least it'd make Israel an even bigger target for terrorists than America and it might even go so far as to force America to withdraw its support of Israel, which would cause all hell to break loose.

[Flipside]

You know, I really wish the news that this was going to happen appalled me, but it appears to just be par for the course these days

An0n does have a point, but the question I wouldn't like to answer is 'Would Israel mow down hundreds of Palestinians in cold blood in something that would make bloody Sunday look like  the Mardi Gras?'

[Corsair]

That's what happened in Sum of All Fears. The book that is.

The Palestinians finally learned nonviolent protest and it worked for them. When a policeman shot a protestor on international TV, the **** hit the fan. A peace treaty was forced through...and it worked out.

Not to say, of course, that Tom Clancy is a reliable source for political strategy. It's a thought, though.

[mikhael]

That was Michael Moore's suggestion. The Palestinians outnumber the Israelies by something like 3 to 2 or 3 to 1. They should just get all non-violent and just have a seat in the streets and block traffic and just generally make life difficult (in non-violent ways).

[Rictor]

In Gaza, they outnumber the Israelis about 99-1. And I was under the impresion that nonviolent resistance is exactly what the vast majority of the population are practicing, excluding a few militants. The fact that there is yet to be a armed uprising (and I mean one of truly epic proportions) in the occupied territories, after decades of occupation,  is nothing if not a testament to the Palestinian's pacifity, dare I say dedication to non-violence and peace.

[mikhael]

By that standard, Rictor, the US is a peace loving, generous, outgoing nation, whose only interest is doing good in the world.

Unfortunately, as long as there's a bunch of ****wits in either place, making decisions that show the world a very different face, the world will never percieve either in any other way than they do now.

[DeepSpace9er]

This is exactly why i dont live in a city, and live in semi-rural USA.

[Corsair]

If that's true, then the Israeli government and/or the IDF has truly gone nuts.

And I support Israel on a lot of things.

[Rictor]

I really don't want to get into this....again, but when have the American people ever been oppressed, by either an internal or external force? The US mainland has never been occupied, and the closest thing to a dictatorship in US history would maybe be the McCarthy era, which wasn't really all that bad by world standards. I respect people who practice non violence in the face of oppression and agression, not in the face of..well, prosperity and peace.

I'de like to hear what Sandwich has to say about this, if he is not himself deployed to Rafah.

edit: I think this is relevant, though I have no idea who the guy is

"There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.
— A. J. Muste "

[Bobboau]

well sgments of our population were fairly signifigantly oppressed (a few still are to an extent), granted the whole lot of us wern't sence our founding.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Rictor
I'de like to hear what Sandwich has to say about this, if he is not himself deployed to Rafah.

Unfortunately, I haven't been listening to news for months and months now. If you want, I could dig up reports from my Israeli POV. If you want to debate, that's fine. But if you want to argue, forget it.

The only thing I've heard that is relevant is that, of the 20 Palestinians killed yesterday in Gaza, two were children. They were killed by a roadside bomb set to go off on IDF forces. Now, I don't have any (moral) problem with them doing any kind of attack against military forces, but when two of their own kids get blown apart, and then they try to lay the blame on Israel... that's going way too far.

[Sandwich]

Oh, and just to toss a few things into the smelting pot here:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/001/161yaihr.asp?pg=1

[Gank]

Weekly standard? You know thats a neocon mouthpiece, and they arent exactly known for objectivity.

All news reports on the matter I've seen say the kids were killed by IDF gunfire, and there was some interesting footage on skynews last night of a dozen or so Israeli soldiers sitting in a home with a palestinian family including 4 kids in the middle of them. Isnt using civilians as human shields against the geneva convention? Or does Israel have special dispensation from god allowing it to ignore that?

LOL at the Tom Clancy suggestion, somebody needs to talk to some actual Israelis, take sandwich here for example, he thinks Palestinians worship satan because theyre muslim despite the fact that 1 in 6 is a christian. Settlers are worse by a long shot.

[DeepSpace9er]

I seriously doubt that the 1 in 6 are not the ones doing the suicide bombs. Muslims have quite a track record of doing those things, Christians dont.

Israel may be winning the ground war and probably always will, but with a birth rate of 1.1 children per household and palestines close to 8 children per household birth rate, Palestine will be moving in the next 40-50 years.

[Gank]

Israels ****ed, with a capital F. Has been from the start
http://www.gasandoil.com/goc/features/fex24290.htm

As for the christians not suicide bombing, that may be, not sure on figures but dying for your cause isnt a strictly muslim thing, Regardless of that though all palestinians are being punished for it, regardless of faith.

[an0n]

Uh-oh

[Corsair]

Wonderful.

[Rictor]

Rictor, the Great and Mighty Clairvoyant, predicts that despite the gross illegality and immorality of this little trip into Rafah, we're going to hear the same old BS about how, though disturbing the situation may be, Israel has a right to defend itself, which apparently includes mowing down children and leaving thousands homeless.

Her guests were (INSERT INDISTINGUISHABLE ARAB NAME), from Hamas, and their attorney, Stanley Cohen. No, that's not a joke. Would that it were. Stanley Cohen, the attorney for Hamas.

some racism, but I'm not particularly bothered.

Because if we're only willing to absorb their own words--nevermind their demonic deeds--he and his brethren have a perfectly uncomplicated point of view and agenda, and their clarity should give us our own clarity, and wouldn't that be refreshing

inability to talk for 10 seconds without making a fool of himself and everything he stands for, not to mention no sense of irony.

let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs From The Same General Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Anything In Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal
Struggle And Death."

'nuff said.

I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN. How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters."

mhm, right.....

For one thing, trying to destroy Israel--or "The Zionist Entity" as their textbooks call it--for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward on God's Earth,

there goes the racism again, and a very poor knowledge of reality to boot.

Can anyone picture the Jews strapping belts of razor blades and dynamite to themselves? Of course not. Or marshalling every fiber and force at their disposal for generations to drive a tiny Arab state into the sea? Nonsense. Or dancing for joy at the murder of innocents? Impossible. Or spreading and believing horrible lies about the Arabs baking their bread with the blood of children? Disgusting. No, as you know, left to themselves in a world of peace, the worst Jews would ever do to people is debate them to death.

and this is where I stopped reading.

[an0n]

Stopped reading what?