[Crazy_Ivan80]

Originally posted by Gank


Anti-semite now am I? Israels last line of defense, when you cant defend your position, call them Nazis.

maybe when you start accepting historical reality instead of laying all the blame with 1 party.

The UN favoured the creation of Israel
Arabs opposed it and tried to destroy it from day 1
Israel won and took warspoils (as they were entitled to)
Hadn't there been an attack there wouldn't be a problem now.

There have always been jews in the region
The name Palestine was coined after the Romans forced many jews to leave (before that the province was called Judea)
The Ottomans encouraged jews to come and live in Palestine.
And a significant part of the land of what would ahve been the 1948 Israeli state was fairly bought from the people who already lived there.
When jews were engaging in terrorism other jews quickly put an end to it. The other party encourages it.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by ionia23


A door that remains open, and some measure of dignity.

er...what the hell does that mean, exactly?

I think the Un should take over - turn the most disputed territories into neutral, UN controlled 'free' cities, force the Arab nations bordering Israel to offer concrete and binding non-agression treaties (with sever repercussions if they break them - including terrorist attacks), and in exachange Israel hands back buffer territory.

Insofar as I know, the like sof the Gaza strip are basically buffer zones against attack... I don't think there's any economic value for the most part.  It's obvious that force will not solve this problem, and it's also obvious that this situation is having a destabilising effect on a large part of the world.  If neither side (Palestine or the Israelis) are able to find a compromise and solution, then maybe one should be forced upon them.  i.e. if they can;t be equally happy, then they can be equally unhappy.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
maybe when you start accepting historical reality instead of laying all the blame with 1 party.

Maybe you should learn some historical reality first before telling other people to accept it.

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
The UN favoured the creation of Israel

So what. The UN was one year old at the time and the arabs had no say in what was done. The only reason the UN favoured it was because of the holocaust, and what they did favour wasnt enough for the Zionists.

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
Arabs opposed it and tried to destroy it from day 1

Of course they did, read Ben Gurions quote, we stole their land

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
Israel won and took warspoils (as they were entitled to)

No they're not entitled to, this is called ethnic cleansing and its unacceptable in the civilised world. Are you going to try and argue that it is?

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
Hadn't there been an attack there wouldn't be a problem now.

If Israel hadnt declared itself an independant state there wouldnt have been an attack, can play the blame game as long as yopu want, it only goes back as far as the time european jews started eimmigrating to the area

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
There have always been jews in the region

Yes, a minority. Something like 30,000 to 750,000 arabs at the turn of the century.

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
The name Palestine was coined after the Romans forced many jews to leave (before that the province was called Judea)

No it wasnt, Judea is a small part of palestine and not even fully in Israel now as sandwich has already pointed out. And some proof that the Romans forced the jews out, anything I've read on the matter says Judaism spread with the roman empire rather than away from it.

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
The Ottomans encouraged jews to come and live in Palestine.

No the didnt, mass jewish immigration didnt start till the turn of the century and didnt really take off until after the British signed the Balfour declaration and then captured Palestine from the Ottoman Empire.

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
And a significant part of the land of what would ahve been the 1948 Israeli state was fairly bought from the people who already lived there.

7% Thats not significent.

Originally posted by Crazy_Ivan80
When jews were engaging in terrorism other jews quickly put an end to it. The other party encourages it.

No they didnt, they absorbed the terrorist groups into the IDF. They later issued medals to commemerate their deeds. Begin, Shamir and Sharon are all former terrorists. How can you say they dont like terrorists, when at least 3 of their elected leaders have been one?

[Rictor]

As much as I'de like to see the situation be resolved, I have to disagree with those supporting the notion of the UN putting its foot down.

Neither side has asked for the UN to intervene directly (though Arafat has called on the world to do something blabla). There is such a thing as sovereignty. This is between the Israelis and the Palestinians. Political and economic pressure is acceptable, but sending in the troops and claiming the place as a UN protectorate is not.

Permanent peace won't come until a change of mentality occurs, on both sides. You can forcefully keep them apart, but not forever.

Aide from that, there are still two problems. First, the UN would never do something like that. Such an actions would be dead before it was even introduced, via our friends the US and their veto power. Secondly, the UN has a history of utter incompetenance. They are, in short, incapable.

________

ionia: door open to what exactly?