Author Topic: Model and Normal Maps Status  (Read 161691 times)

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Offline Bobboau

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
normal map effects lighting, height map effects position.
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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
Too many words, not enough screenshots of the new Freespace ships that'll be going into the MediaVP's.

agree.
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Offline taylor

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
normal map effects lighting, height map effects position.
Well, it's the perception of changing position anyway.  In our sense it just affects the offset of the normal map for the purposes of lighting, thereby giving the illusion of height, though no additional detail exists.

@TrashMan:  A spec map doesn't have to be greyscale, it's just used to modulate specular light, so it can make full of all four color channels to change the affect that specular highlights have on a surface.  The height map is only used (for us anyway) for the purposes of parallax mapping, meaning that it works together with a normal map, but has no other affect.  The height map here is a traditional bump map, and normal mapping is just a form or bump mapping (dot3 bump mapping), but it makes use of 3 channels for position rather than the 1 that a height map uses.

A height map can also be used for terrain generation (something that we don't do) or for displacement mapping (which we also don't do).  In these cases it actually does change the geometry.  This is the kind of thing that normal/parallax mapping simulates through the use of lighting effects.  In other words, normal/parallax mapping just creates the illusion of greater detail, whereas displacement mapping actually creates that same detail.  Height/Normal mapping simply affect how shading/lighting is done.

 

Offline Topgun

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
 :yes:
one thing I noticed with the other maps (IE hathesput or whatever :doubt:) is that they seem to be misaligned making it look like it has jaggies even w\ 16x AA.

 

Offline Cobra

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
It's Hatshepsut, damn it. :P

DaB, how did you do two different versions from one normal map?
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
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Offline Topgun

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
I guess he changed the intensity?

 

Offline jr2

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
So, I redid the normal map from the scratch.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
So height map is basically a bump map, and a normal map is basically a next-generation, improved bump map?

Damn, you did everything. I though I'd be making bump maps for that project of mine but it looks like everything is in already :p
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread

Well, it's the perception of changing position anyway.  In our sense it just affects the offset of the normal map for the purposes of lighting, thereby giving the illusion of height, though no additional detail exists.


I was trying to simplify it to point out the difference between the two, cause he seems to be confused.

he still seems confused,
no, our height map is not used in anything even remotely related to bump mapping, normal mapping is very very similar to bump mapping, in fact so similar one could say it's the exact same thing using different source data, but normal maps tend to give better/more versatile results.
but the height map is used to distort texture lookup so that the bumps actualy look 3d, the lighting effects of the normal map to an extreemly good job of doing this on there own, but things in the distance move slower than things in the foreground, this is called parallax, and this is what the height map is for.
for example, if you have a trench on your texture and you fly along it normally the bottom of the trench will move at the same speed as the surface, this is incorrect, but parallax mapping (what the height map is for) will cause the bottom of the trench to move slower than the surface so it seems more 3d, gives a since of distance.
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DEUTERONOMY 22:11
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
Great. This means that still leaven, normal, old-fashioned bump mapping for me to try and implement.

the code ATM looks like a jungle, I'm gonna need a month to find my bearings :P .. shi**, I'm going to have to ask for extra time for this project.
Why the hell did I pick this in the first place?  :ick:

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Offline taylor

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
Great. This means that still leaven, normal, old-fashioned bump mapping for me to try and implement.

the code ATM looks like a jungle, I'm gonna need a month to find my bearings :P .. shi**, I'm going to have to ask for extra time for this project.
Why the hell did I pick this in the first place?  :ick:
I've wondered the same thing. ;)

The FS code base is a mishmash of things and it doesn't do all that much that would be considered proper when it comes to rendering.  Remember that the FS code base was designed when software renderers were important, and a Voodoo1 was the coolest thing around.  The FS2 code improved on that base, but it wasn't fundamentally changed.  A lot of the basic setup is just plain wrong when it comes to modern rendering, which is why it takes us so long to fix certain things: we have to completely redesign the code to make it work.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
Mayhaps I should change the 3D engine... the paper name is titled: "3D engines, with modifications of a existing one"

the name of the engine is nowhere stated :P
So far I got around 40 pages worth of details about 3D engines, how they work, how they render, how does lightining, mapping and the pipleline work..now I got to write ~ 20 pages about some specific engine, and detail what I have changed (complete with before/after images) :P
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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
the FS code base was designed when software renderers were important, and a Voodoo1 was the coolest thing around.

ahh, nostalgia.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
Since I only started looking at the FSO, I still have time to change thh 3D engine..you think I should?
If so, is there any engine you'd recommend?
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Offline Cobra

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
Why would you want to change the 3D engine? Right now it's on par with modern games. :P
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Herra Tohtori

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
AFAIK TrashMan has a schoolwork assignment to do and he's doing it about 3D engine related stuff, and had chosen FS2_Open as the main subject, but is now having second thoughts or something... :nervous:
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
Quite. I have to modifiy a existing engine and add some graphics-related functionality :P


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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
My quote: subtle works best  :)

That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

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Offline Vasudan Admiral

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
Actually to be honest I think ships like that one would be better off without a normal map and just have a good shinemap instead. A subtle normal map just isn't worth the performance cost it has attached. It's like using a thousand polys to do what could be done with a hundred.

You can tell by going into a fight with it and taking screenies at close combat range mid battle. More than likely the normal mapping will be completely invisible. :(
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Big Normal Maps Thread
Yeah, subtlety blows.

I want to SEE the GEOMOD errr, I mean, bump mapping.