[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TrashMan


Hello? He means positioning the Colossuss and hte fleet and the GD node to waste any incoming shivans.

Even the Sath can't hold out against a collie and a bunch of destroyer, corvettes and cruisers (+****loads of bombers)

they could just pick htem off, one by one as they enter. This defense line wouldn't hold forever, but at least they would take several saths with them, and bought more time for hte civilians to escape!

Let's list the assumptions, shall we?
- That the GTVA had a decent number of free warships
- That the Shivan forces already in Capella wouldn't either a) destroy said fleet anyways or b) simply turn their attention towards the civvies and wipe them out
- That the GTVA somehow magically guessed the Shivans weren't interested in the rest of their systems and so felt free to commit the vast majority of their resources to an already futile blockade.
- That the Shivans didn't/wouldn't send in a screen of cruisers, corvettes and destroyers to screen against any hostile blockades
- That the GTVA could even get enough forces assembled to blockade the node.
- That the Colossus could hurt a Sath enough to avoid damage (it took it ****ing ages to bring down a disarmed one, after all - and after that it was almost out of comission with the damage from overheating)
- That the Colossus+ships could reach a node - any node - in time to stop the Shivan armada assembling in sufficient numbers to obliterate the GTVA fleet in Capella

What've i missed?

Oh, there's no point atall blockading a system when the enemy has already transported in overwhelming forces.  It's a bit like guarding the gates when the castle keep has already been taken.

[Dranon]

My opinion is that the C should not have been in that system at all.  Big waste of resources, even though i guess it did help draw shivans away from the Bastion.  

But then i have never really liked how the C was used throughout the Campaign..

[Kie99]

I think the idea of that mission was to make the Shivans believe we had something massive ready for them hidden in Gamma Draconis, the Shivans would then come and try to stop the Colossus doing whatever it was doing and go back to the BBQ.

BTW I think I have a different version of that mission to most people, the Sathanas that jumps in is simply called Sathanas, not Sathanas 17, and when it has finished off the Colossus it just sits there.

Oh yeah and for once I actually agree with Aldo

[Hippo]

I don't know why Sathanas 17 departs there... You don't notice it on the radar, the 17 makes it blatently obvious when pressing F4, and it takes a good 11 seconds (at least, last time i checked it, which was LONG ago) after it departs for the real one to arrive, which doesn't fit with an in-system jump time... Maybe they had an idea, and changed it... (like, they were going to be closer to the action, instead of just a background effect)...

[Goober5000]

Originally posted by Hippo
it takes a good 11 seconds ... after it departs for the real one to arrive, which doesn't fit with an in-system jump time

Seeing as the Belisarius took around 15 seconds to arrive in the first mission, it seems fine to me.

[Luigi30]

The 11 seconds are so it can take the D off the nameplate so it just says SJ Sathanas 17.

[Taristin]

Originally posted by Hippo
I don't know why Sathanas 17 departs there... You don't notice it on the radar, the 17 makes it blatently obvious when pressing F4, and it takes a good 11 seconds (at least, last time i checked it, which was LONG ago) after it departs for the real one to arrive, which doesn't fit with an in-system jump time... Maybe they had an idea, and changed it... (like, they were going to be closer to the action, instead of just a background effect)...

Or perhaps it's like the cutscene show(ed?), where one or two Sathani jump out before the star goes Nova.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
I think the idea of that mission was to make the Shivans believe we had something massive ready for them hidden in Gamma Draconis, the Shivans would then come and try to stop the Colossus doing whatever it was doing and go back to the BBQ.
 

I think it was a simple case that the fleet had to hold Capella and evacuate the civillians.... they didn't know the Shivans intended on supernova-ing the star (the most they indicated was they were powering up some super-weapon), so they simply deployed every asset they had to engage the Shivans on all fronts until a) all civvies were evacuated and b)Epsilon Pegasi was cut off from the Shivans.

For all the GTVA knew, the Shivans would have marched on from Capella and destroyed them system by system - they had no choice but to stop them at Capella, at least until they could seal the nodes off.

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by aldo_14

What've i missed?

The thing that that blocade should have taken place after the first Sath was spotted. I was reffering to that.

I mena the GTVA formed a blocade at the GD-Capella node and sent oe corvette to blow the portal for crying out loud! What utter stupidity!

Isn't it easier to wax the Sath when it jumps in (and can't stop immediately) so you have a clear shot at it's behind then simply standing at the other node where it can charge at you head on?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TrashMan


The thing that that blocade should have taken place after the first Sath was spotted. I was reffering to that.

I mena the GTVA formed a blocade at the GD-Capella node and sent oe corvette to blow the portal for crying out loud! What utter stupidity!

Isn't it easier to wax the Sath when it jumps in (and can't stop immediately) so you have a clear shot at it's behind then simply standing at the other node where it can charge at you head on?

Except you don't know the arrival vector for an incoming ship through a subspace node, so you can't position ships under that assumption.   And GTVA command rated the Sathanas as having sufficient power to destroy the Colossus - and the Colossus was pretty much the only hope there was (note that by default it's armed with fairly weak beams).  Risk the Colossus and lose, and you also pretty much lose any hope of winning what was then (seemingly) a winnable war.

Also bear in mind that the GTVA was still finishing off the NTF; there were still probably a number of ships engaged.  And the Colossus' location is unknown; it's been shown to be reliant upon logistical support from convoys, a 'distant' deployment on the GD-nebula node might have been unsustainable, especially if Shivan forces were already getting in-system.  

As the game clearly states blockades are not infallible (the NTF fleet is described as running several of them before their attack on the GTVA fleet in GD), it'd be a hell of a gamble to put your trump card in a logistically tricky area, guarding against a ship that may come at any time (recent or distant), from an unknown vector, with an unknown support force.  Especially if the Shivans were able to slip through enough bombers and fighters to disable / disarm the Colossus (or even just weaken it) in the same way command intended to tackle the Sath.

Oh, and the GTVA also had blockades on the GD-Capella node, and a blockade line at the entry to Capella; none survived the Sathanas.  There was a rally point set in Gamma Draconis - probably well beyond the node to avoid the Shivan ships entering there, which would be well capable of destroying any damaged groups of GTVA vessels around the node.

Incidentally, finally discovered the populaiton of Capella - 250,000,000.

[karajorma]

You should have asked. I could have told you that one from memory

[aldo_14]

I've no doubt........

[Charismatic]

Hah.
Thats of people. Just listening to some briefings\debriefings using the VP View, i started to relaise how important Capella was. Many times civilians and survivors were avacuated there.

Sadly the shivans had a glitch in their dooms-day-device, and only super nova'ed it. Hehe.

[TrashMan]

Ha...if the GTVA had any blockades whatsoever, the Sath wouldn't be at 100%..

and why make a blockade at all at GD-capella node? there's nothing in GD anyway..

wouldn't it be smarter to pull everything back to capella nad make a big blockade on that side?

[Luigi30]

Because you could stop them before they get into Capella.

[Annorax]

Originally posted by TrashMan

I mena the GTVA formed a blocade at the GD-Capella node and sent oe corvette to blow the portal for crying out loud! What utter stupidity!

They sent one corvette to provide fire support for Alpha's defense of the freighters that dropped the meson bombs. The corvette didn't blow anything up, unless you count a few Shivan fighters getting beamed off...

Get your facts straight before you post. It might be a good idea to actually play the game once or twice before you post about it.

Were you pecenipek in a past life? You remind me a lot of him.

[Kie99]

Double Post

[Kie99]

Originally posted by TrashMan
Ha...if the GTVA had any blockades whatsoever, the Sath wouldn't be at 100%..

and why make a blockade at all at GD-capella node? there's nothing in GD anyway..

wouldn't it be smarter to pull everything back to capella nad make a big blockade on that side?

from the High Noon Briefing
The Sathanas entered the Capella system and obliterated the line of defence we had established to intercept it.  We now have no choice but to send in the Colossus. With its forward beam cannons still operational, the Sathanas has sufficient firepower to win this engagement......

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TrashMan
Ha...if the GTVA had any blockades whatsoever, the Sath wouldn't be at 100%..

and why make a blockade at all at GD-capella node? there's nothing in GD anyway..

wouldn't it be smarter to pull everything back to capella nad make a big blockade on that side?

a) The GTVa had at least one blockade as quoted

b) the GD-Capella blockade was to allow a second line of defense to be drawn up within Capella, possibly to blockade the Capella node itself; or simply to try and contain the Sathanas within the GD system rather than heavily populated Capella

(remember the GTVA could not simply assume any blockade would fail; it had to plan on the hope of stopping the Sath ASAP)

c)One blockade = only one chance.  (and you're assuming they could get enough density of ships).  

Also, blockade b can learn from the fate of a.

And b can better organise itself with the time a buys

Any blockade upon the node from GD is either dependent upon assuming the incoming ships' vector, or risks spreading out the fleet and losing density of fire.

And there is always the risk that the Shivans use a forward ship to distract the blockades firepower, and buy the following Sathanas time; remember that a blockade is effectively blind until the target arrives, AFAIK there has never been an instance where incoming hostiles have been detected prior to their immediate arrival (except when tracked from the other side).

The intelligent solution, of course, would have been to destroy the Gamma Draconis node from the Capella side; but the GTVA still thought destroying the Sath could win the war.......

EDIT
[q]
We demolished the portal but to no avail. The subspace vortex generated by the Knossos device has stabilized, and the Sathanas entered the Gamma Draconis system. Our forces are standing by to intercept the juggernaut at the Capella jump node.

.
.
.

The Sathanas decimated our fleet at the Capella node. Your bomber wing will be scrambled to destroy the Juggernaut's forward beam turrets before it reaches Capella. You must destroy at least two turrets to give the Colossus a fighting chance. You will be armed with the new long-range Trebuchet missile and the Helios torpedo, the GTVA's most powerful tactical warhead.
[/q]

[Fergus]

That blockade would be interesting to FRED.