[Charismatic]

Of corce were bias, its Earth were talking about.

[freecampaignidea]
Hell this topic may be bigg enough to start off another T-V war..
[/freecampaignidea]

It was bad, but.. we lost tons of **** also, mega industrial stuff. Yes its still there but its as bad as it being glassed also.

[TopAce]

Goober, is it you that appended the 'me' poll option?

[Kie99]

I think its Raa.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by freespacegundam
The Terran race has probably suffered the greatest losses.  Sol is gone, much of the fleet was nearly wiped out in the Great War, and we have no idea exactly how many ships were lost in the Second Encounter.  And the loss of Capella, even assuming the majority of the population made it out, is staggering.  Once again, a major industrial and civilian population center was lost.

A note to remember, casualties does not mean just deaths.  In military terms, it includes both deaths and injuries.  Also, we're never told exactly what the number represents.  Ships? Stations? People? All of the above?  Fighter Pilots?  That has always nagged me as yet another thing command refuses to elaborate on.  Oh well.

I would guess that the mission designer - i.e. who wrote the brief - would be thinking in terms of people, and probably dead people at that.

[Taristin]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
I think its Raa.

*kicks Kie in the shin*

Although, I do feel like I'm suffering from all of these ridiculous polls...

[Charismatic]

Get a new MOD to replace you for a bit then.

[Taristin]

Or.... we could stop making useless polls to spam the forums with. Or I can lock them on sight. Or we can continue with the way things are going now.

[Grunt]

Originally posted by Raa


Although, I do feel like I'm suffering from all of these ridiculous polls...

Uhumm ... you realize that the author was curious about others' feelings on this before he made a statement in a mission brief don't you ?

[Singh]

I'd say Terrans. Mostly because of the vasudans, as opposed to the Shivans.

Post-FS1, the Terrans were in worse shape because they had to suffer the damage of a significantly powerfull Vasudan fleet, and the fact was that they were actually loosing to the Vasudans (albiet slowly).

Now, the Vasudans were stronger when the shivans came, and took only a little more brunt of the damage to their military, with the major loss being their homeworld. However, post-fs1, they'd still be better off than the Terrans. Not only were the Terrans weaker at this time, but they pretty much lost an entire system, as opposed to a single planet. Vasuda would have been recaptured and probably re-colonized as well, with the system still minable at the very least. Their military would also still be intact, with all losses at least recoverable.

The Terrans pretty much lost a significant system completely, a significant portion of the military in that system as well as the resources available in it. Remember - they must have been preparing for a blockade, which means that a significant percentage of the GTVA's ships would be at Earth. The Vasudans would have already shifted their command and other centres off Vasudan when the Shivan advance came in, the Terrans had to build one anew, as well as everything else. With fewer systems than the Vasudans now, they would also be on the lower end economically and resource-wise.

Post Fs2 is a different story alltogether though. Here, it's pretty much a tie. Both races lost a significant percentage of ships to the NTF. The terrans lost two fleets, while the Vasudan ships would have fallen to the inital surprise attacks and the war of attrition that  came later on. They would have also lost a significant amount of force to attacks against the NTF, since the Terrans would have been unable to assist till the fleets in other systems came in. This is nothing to say about the situation on the ground. Judging from human nature and brutality, the scenarios on Deneb and other worlds would have been catastrophic, to say the least.

To the shivans, both races lost a significant and sizable force, with the terrans edging the Vasudans slightly with the loss of several great-war era destroyers as well as most of hte Aeoli cruisers. However, this edge isn't much.

In the long run however, the Vasudans would have lost the most, as with the new Knossos technology, the prior loss of Earth incurred by the GTA would have been nullated. The fleets and ships from there would provide Terrans with significant advantages and resources over their Vasudan allies......

[Andreas]

I don't see how the GTA was losing. I always thought T-V War was more like WWI-style standoff, with neither sides gaining any significant victories. Even the Reference Bible mentions that "What started out as a show of strength and technology degenerated into a war of attrition, with both sides suffering heavy losses. Terran and Vasudan ships skirmished in remote areas of space while the politicos flapped their gums on the news. After 14 years, both sides suffered terrible losses, and the end was nowhere in sight."

I agree that the PVN must have had a larger fleet than the GTA, otherwise they could have never been able to compensate for the lack of quality found in the Aten and Anubis classes, which they seemed to favour, especially in suicide attacks, most likely because of their low cost.

There is not much proof that the GTA had any large blockade in the Sol system. I mean, why was Bastion in such a hurry to launch a strike force against the Lucifer if there would have been an entire fleet garrisoned at the other side, capable of doing the same thing? To me it seemed like Bastion was the only Terran ship capable of launching such an attack at the time.

And how would the Vasudan military be still intact (let's not forget the HoL here, either)? Just because we are never shown or told about their losses, doesn't mean that they don't exist. They did lose some of their Typhons, because the mission debriefing for SM3-02a mentions "For protecting one of the few remaining Vasudan Typhon-class destroyers...".

So they were just as screwed as the GTA was. Politically, the GTA was royally screwed though, as most of their political and economical infastructures were based in the Sol system, and the GTI insurgency that followed only fastened the break-up of the GTA.

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by Andreas

There is not much proof that the GTA had any large blockade in the Sol system. I mean, why was Bastion in such a hurry to launch a strike force against the Lucifer if there would have been an entire fleet garrisoned at the other side, capable of doing the same thing? To me it seemed like Bastion was the only Terran ship capable of launching such an attack at the time.

Actually, there is a very, very obvious reason why the Bastion was the only Terran capital ship able to attack the Lucifer in transit.

It was the only one close enough to see the Lucifer enter subspace.

Available evidence is thin, but seems to support the idea that GTA/GTVA subspace tracking is only able to track ships that entered subspace in the presence of a GTA/GTVA craft. Presumably GTA/GTVA technology is similar, GTVA perhaps more advanced, perhaps not. When one considers that all examples of forewarning by Command of enemy arrival via subspace were of ships that had run a blockade to get there and were almost certainly observed entering subspace, it starts to seem fairly reasonable that any Earth-side forces could not have intercepted the Lucifer in the node, as they would not know its location in subspace. Subspace "tunnels" would not appear to fixed objects that all ships that enter a node will travel in through: there must be layers or subdivisions of some sort that seperate them, otherwise the subspace tracking technology would have been wholly unnecessary.

Originally posted by Andreas

And how would the Vasudan military be still intact (let's not forget the HoL here, either)? Just because we are never shown or told about their losses, doesn't mean that they don't exist. They did lose some of their Typhons, because the mission debriefing for SM3-02a mentions "For protecting one of the few remaining Vasudan Typhon-class destroyers...".

Forget the HoL...let's talk about the siege of Vasuda Prime. I imagine that the Vasudans threw in everything they had available in defense of their homeworld, and lost most of it in the process.

[Andreas]

You're right. It's just that they didn't mention about anysort of blockade in the Sol system in any of the command or mission briefings, so I thought that the statement that "significant percentage of the GTVA's ships would be at Earth" was a little bit off.

Originally posted by ngtm1r

Forget the HoL...let's talk about the siege of Vasuda Prime. I imagine that the Vasudans threw in everything they had available in defense of their homeworld, and lost most of it in the process.

Very true. That reminds me, from the command briefing of sm2-03a: "The Hammer of Light has decimated the Vasudan fleet at Vega. Most of the surviving Vasudan forces have retreated to Deneb and Antares."

[Taristin]

Originally posted by Grunt


Uhumm ... you realize that the author was curious about others' feelings on this before he made a statement in a mission brief don't you ?

1) No. That was never stated. AFAICT, this was the same kind of poll thread as all the others. Not once did 'the author' say he was looking for opinions for his own command bfiefing.

2) That doesn't even matter. You should know by now that since you're asking for an opinionon HLP. HLP has as many opinions as it does members. And on top of that, the question is totally abitrary. All you know is what they tell you in mission, and what you read in the tech rooms. There's very little real info on the background fluff.

[DeepSpace9er]

Speaking of Silent Threat, is that available for d/l on HotU?

[Grunt]

Originally posted by Grunt
...Was it the Vasudans or the Terran race ?
I was thinking about a command briefing text and couldn't answer this...

Originally posted by Raa
...Not once did 'the author' say he was looking for opinions for his own command bfiefing...

HLPers helped a lot to answer the question actually. They quoted all relevant info from both FS games. No I can safely say it was the Vasudans cos it meets the opinion of most people here (66% at the moment). The rest will not agree but it's like tennis, one can not win all the points.

[Kie99]

Originally posted by DeepSpace9er
Speaking of Silent Threat, is that available for d/l on HotU?

Try the FSPort.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by aldo_14
but Capella is really closer to Vasudan territory.

I don't buy that.

 Adhara is definately Terran as the Adhara Coalition was one of the regional blocs. Epsilon Pegasi appears to be Terran too as does Polaris (I doubt the NTF could have succeeding in starting their rebellion in a Vasudan held systems, not to mention that the Terran Freedom Shipyards were based there). Regulus is also definately Terran as  it too was one of the regional blocs (The Regulus Syndicate).
 Vega also must have a sizable terran population too as there are terran fleets based there, the (Terran-made) meson bomb was developed there.

All in all it seems pretty likely to me that Capella was Terran. The fact that the installation we did see was an Arcadia rather than one of the semi-mythical Vasudan installations also tends to point in that direction.

[Boomer]

Believe it or not, I don't think the Vasudans have suffered all that much.  Remember, the Vasudans are a philosophical people who have chosen not to dwell on the past.  Besides, their homeworld can easily be restored by a little technological secret known as TERRAFORMING.  The Terrans however, truly lost their homeworld in the most horrific of ways.  We don't know what happened to our loved ones on Earth.  Did it survive and prosper?  Did it fall into another dark age?  Are our loved ones still alive?  We had know idea how things had turned out.  We did not have the comfort of knowing that our loved ones were dead and at peace.  All we had left were fond memories of our birthplace and a small glow of a far off star to dwell upon.

Now I ask you, who hurts now?  Huh?!  Who hurts now?!!!

*Breathes Deeply*
*Calms Down*
*Sees Vasudans bearing torches and pitchforks*
*Runs*

[Taristin]

Originally posted by karajorma


All in all it seems pretty likely to me that Capella was Terran. The fact that the installation we did see was an Arcadia rather than one of the semi-mythical Vasudan installations also tends to point in that direction.

Show me where there's a Vasudan installation in any system, and I will give you a fish.

I, for some reason, thought of Capella as a mixed system. It's population was too large to be strictly Terran, or Vasudan, IMO.

[Taristin]

Originally posted by Boomer
Besides, their homeworld can easily be restored by a little technological secret known as TERRAFORMING.  The Terrans however, truly lost their homeworld in the most horrific of ways.  We don't know what happened to our loved ones on Earth.  

Point 1; You cannot Terraform glass. Not to mention Vasuda Prime is probably so radioactive, it'd kill anything attempting to survive on the surface.

Point 2; Radio waves from a nearby system could have reached Earth and back several times in the years after the Lucifer. Sol had survived for millenia before humans made it to space, it could survive more after being isolated once more.