Author Topic: 3 Bombs go off in London  (Read 14707 times)

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Offline Rictor

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Well, generally speaking demographic warfare has been pretty damn successful throughout history, and no less so in the 20th century. In the long run, he who f*cks most, wins. Today, the Africans are the only ones who are still doing it old school style: no battles to speak of, just massacre the women and children and in 20 years you win by default. But demographics are not to be underestimated, in any country.

When you say that a Muslim PM would be perfectly acceptable, well first of all I have my doubts as to whether that's just a statement, but in any case I don't think too many people would agree with you, particularly outside of the West, where tribal mentality is very much stronger. That's what it essentially is. My tribe, whichever one it happens to be, is preferable to all others, and given a choice I would choose to associate with and grant power to those who are of my tribe. When someone says that Islam is taking over Britain, or Mexicans are taking over the US, or Arabs are taking over Israel, it basically means "those damn no-good Other Tribesmen are gaining power, and we are loosing it, and if they continue to screw at a rate that exceeds our own, we're going to have problems a few years down the line. So, naturally, my sense of tribal (usually national) identity is offended."

Simple. Call it rascist, and it is, but it's part and parcel of being what has historically been identified as being human.

 

Offline karajorma

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In which case I can look down on the rest of humanity for not acting that way :D
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by vyper


Okay, now you're drifting away from my views and into rampant stupidity. It's not that long ago a large group of muslims declared they wanted Islam to be the primary force behind UK law and policy. Can you imagine what would happen with an Islamic PM? Aye... Think that one through please.


Why the hell are you assuming an Islamic PM is less likely to uphold the secular nature of this country than a Christian, Jewish. Sikh, Hindu or Buddhist PM?

Are you seriously suggesting we should ban prime ministerial candidates on the basis of religion?  Now that is most definately racism; especially if you consider the demographic changes that would be required to make that scenario even possible.

Of course, it is the nature of the Islamic religion to impose itself upon 'outside life' - for lack of a better term.  For many Muslims, their faith has an overriding priority that makes it perfectly acceptable and expected as a basis for government, law, etc.  I remember having a discussion about it with a muslim lad on the uni messageboards, specifically with regards to Shariah law.  This means that said call doesn't equate to a Taliban or Iran-style government; that would be a question of the ways in which the religion was applied.  

I'm sure you could use the bible for lots of nasty punishments like stoning and soforth - point being that we (despite being a Christian country before we were as secular as nowadays)don't apply them in that way.

 

Offline Bobboau

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we've got a **** load of wacked out christians over here who are activly trying to wedge there God into our laws, and no one would ever think of trying to bar them from office.
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Offline Kosh

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Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
we've got a **** load of wacked out christians over here who are activly trying to wedge there God into our laws, and no one would ever think of trying to bar them from office.




Partly because our president is one of them.
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I am late getting into this, but my heart goes out to the UK for what has happened, and those responsible must be arrested and stand trial for their crimes.

Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
Have you even been to the UK recently? (and what the hell has this got to do with anything anyways)  The only way the UK will be 'taken over by Islam' will be if the majority of the population is Islamic.  And in that case, it'd only be fair.

I disagree, that would not be fair, unless the majority respects the minorities (and how often does that happen)? Otherwise,  if their faith has a huge influence on the law, you have a theocracy telling you how to live.

 

Offline karajorma

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But who says that they won't respect the minority? The vast majority of muslims in this country are as tolerant of other religions as most christians in this country are.

I find it ironic that it's mostly people from other countries who are trying to claim that British muslims can't be trusted.
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Offline vyper

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[q]Why the hell are you assuming an Islamic PM is less likely to uphold the secular nature of this country than a Christian, Jewish. Sikh, Hindu or Buddhist PM?[/q]

Because Islam as a culture is about a hundred if not more years behind us in terms of social development and equality.  

There I've said it. Flame away.
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Offline karajorma

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Don't have to. The comment is idiotic enough to not need someone to flame it to prove it's wrong.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2005, 05:28:36 am by 340 »
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by EtherShock
I am late getting into this, but my heart goes out to the UK for what has happened, and those responsible must be arrested and stand trial for their crimes.


I disagree, that would not be fair, unless the majority respects the minorities (and how often does that happen)? Otherwise,  if their faith has a huge influence on the law, you have a theocracy telling you how to live.


It would be fair with regards to the majority opinion.  An Islamic Prime Minister does not by nature connotate theocracy any more than a Christian PM currently does.

I think it would be incorrect to assume a Muslim PM would have any less regard for the secular nature of this country than one of any other religion.

 

Offline Kosh

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Why hasn't this thread been split yet?
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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Offline TopAce

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No-one wants to split it, there are only people who want it split.
When the time comes, without splitting, it will be closed.
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Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
But who says that they won't respect the minority? The vast majority of muslims in this country are as tolerant of other religions as most christians in this country are.

I find it ironic that it's mostly people from other countries who are trying to claim that British muslims can't be trusted.

Ehh, that's just my distrust for people in power showing. I'm not saying British muslims can't be trusted. I don't think anyone in power can be completely trusted. I don't trust the crazy Christians running the US either. I will vote for anyone as long as I agree with their policies, regardless of race, gender, religion/creed, sexual orientation, etc.

Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
It would be fair with regards to the majority opinion.  An Islamic Prime Minister does not by nature connotate theocracy any more than a Christian PM currently does.

I think it would be incorrect to assume a Muslim PM would have any less regard for the secular nature of this country than one of any other religion.


With regards to majority opinion, it would be fair. I think our definitions of "fair" in this case are not the same. My definition in this sense is that everyone be respected and treated equally or at the least the people in power try to treat everyone equally. I was saying you have a theocracy if religion dictates policy/law too much. It is not based on the faith of the leader.

 

Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by EtherShock

With regards to majority opinion, it would be fair. I think our definitions of "fair" in this case are not the same. My definition in this sense is that everyone be respected and treated equally or at the least the people in power try to treat everyone equally. I was saying you have a theocracy if religion dictates policy/law too much. It is not based on the faith of the leader.


Which was exactly my point.  Even an expressly religious leader does not necessarily entail a theocracy; not to mention the inherent checks and balances that a democracy should have (and IMO does provide to some degree in the UK; i.e. the Lords and legal system).

My understand is that 'taken over by Islam' had the meaning that any form of government headed by a Muslim was being regarded as a bad thing within a western country, and that a connotation was being made between the religion and the theocracy in, for example, Iran.  IMO that's an incorrect connotation.

 
People fear what they don't understand. This is no different than the BS that the US is being overrun with Mexicans. Hell, way back when, we even passed the Chinese Exclusion Act, banning all Chinese from immigration. It was later repealed, but it never should've been passed in the first place. They didn't "take over" when they were "allowed" back in. This fear of Islam is completely irrational, and it just shows how ignorant society is. :hopping:

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by EtherShock
This fear of Islam is completely irrational, and it just shows how ignorant society is. :hopping:


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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Black Wolf

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Originally posted by Sandwich


:sigh:


What's that supposed to mean?
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Offline Sandwich

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It's sort of along the lines of :rolleyes:, but with more sadness and less annoyance.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline TopAce

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Have I already said what I think this thread's destiny will be? This has already gone more towards religion that terrorism politics. Religion threads are unhealthy.

I am not saying stop, because I don't have the power to do that, I just want to indicate that not only this thread has gone off-topic, but it headed into a more dangerous direction.
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Offline Kosh

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Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
It's sort of along the lines of :rolleyes:, but with more sadness and less annoyance.



And it's your own fault for starting it. Good job. :p
"The reason for this is that the original Fortran got so convoluted and extensive (10's of millions of lines of code) that no-one can actually figure out how it works, there's a massive project going on to decode the original Fortran and write a more modern system, but until then, the UK communication network is actually relying heavily on 35 year old Fortran that nobody understands." - Flipside

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