[Sandwich]

I'd recommend anyone wanting to keep up to date with the goings-on here read http://www.ynetnews.com/

[Sandwich]

Just got an SMS news flash; Israel's warned the residents of South Lebanon to leave their homes in the next 2 hours before the IAF strikes.

[Black Wolf]

Supporting his stance were representatives of Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, delegates said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks.

That alone ought to tell you the relevance of official government statements on the matter. Admittedly, it'll mean that Israel probably wont be facing tanks and planes, but, as we've seen in this thread, those wouldn't be much of a threat to them anyway.

[Wanderer]

I we take this kind of incidents into account i just wonder how many people are actually willing to leave their homes... as it seems that Israelis are indiscriminantly targetting civilians... First telling them to leave their houses and then bombing escaping families?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5184122.stm

Or that is how the incident is portrayed around here.

[GodisanAtheist]

Does anyone have any figures on what this opperation is costing Israel? As a point of comparision, the US is blowing some 20-30 Billion dollars (don't hold me to that) a month keeping an entire country subjugated, but then the US can afford that kind of spending (in a manner of speaking). I assume a country like Israel doesn't have endless pockets and has to be a little more efficient with their spending.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Israel gets some Arab support,
As the fighting continued unabated, Lebanon sought support from fellow Arabs at an emergency session of foreign ministers in Cairo on Saturday. But sharp rifts erupted over as moderate Arab states denounced Hezbollah for starting the conflict.

Saudi Foreign Minister Saud al-Faisal called the guerrilla group's actions "unexpected, inappropriate and irresponsible," telling his counterparts: "These acts will pull the whole region back to years ago, and we cannot simply accept them."

Supporting his stance were representatives of Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Iraq, the Palestinian Authority, the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, delegates said on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the talks.

Another camp led by Syria defended Hezbollah as carrying out "legitimate acts in line with international resolutions and the U.N. charter, as acts of resistance," delegates said.

They're not really getting arab support as much as those arabs are all sunnis who dislike Iran getting more clout in the region. Those arabs aren't concerned about the jews, they're concerned about their own power vis à vis a resurgent Iran. They don't care about Israel, not one bit.

[Mr. Vega]

(Ditto the F-22. You think Crays break a lot or something?)

I was thinking about cost there.

[Rictor]

Hezbollah are reporting they've downed an Israeli F-16 over Lebanon, and various sources are also reporting that Israel has started a pretty significant land invasion of Lebanon. Both stories have conflicting reports and are unconfirmed. Sandwich, can you confirm or deny?

[Fear]

As im living there aswell, i can confirm its not an airplane.
It was acctually a missle that went into the air(and fall) because the IDF bombed a silo or something like that.And i havent heared of a ground invasion yet so i think its not true either.

[Grug]

A western UN force or otherwise consolidating the region would not work. Send in Turkish or Indian troops. Anything other than western troops.

[Rictor]

And presumably the Lebanese would be more welcoming of foreigners, just so long as they're some third party? Not likely. The whole idea of putting "peackeepers" between two forces who want to knock the hell out of each other, Israel and Hezbollah, is absurd. Neither side would grant them any jurisdiction over the border areas, and they would at best be caught in the crossfire.

For my money, I think Israel will be fine as long as they confine their activites to Lebanon. But if they go after Syria, the **** will well and truly hit the fan, with not only Syria and Iran getting involved but also drawing a much sharper response from the Arab world. It's also funny how, just a year ago, the West was head over heels in love with the "Cedar Revolutionaries", those fresh-faced young democrats, all Western and secular and loveable, and now that bombs are falling on them, its all like "Huh? Lebanon? Oooh, you mean Hezbollah, right? Yeah, bomb them ****ers."

[aldo_14]

And presumably the Lebanese would be more welcoming of foreigners, just so long as they're some third party? Not likely. The whole idea of putting "peackeepers" between two forces who want to knock the hell out of each other, Israel and Hezbollah, is absurd. Neither side would grant them any jurisdiction over the border areas, and they would at best be caught in the crossfire.

For my money, I think Israel will be fine as long as they confine their activites to Lebanon. But if they go after Syria, the **** will well and truly hit the fan, with not only Syria and Iran getting involved but also drawing a much sharper response from the Arab world. It's also funny how, just a year ago, the West was head over heels in love with the "Cedar Revolutionaries", those fresh-faced young democrats, all Western and secular and loveable, and now that bombs are falling on them, its all like "Huh? Lebanon? Oooh, you mean Hezbollah, right? Yeah, bomb them ****ers."

Are Lebanon any more welcoming of bombs than foreigners?

This is up-**** creek already; it's an unwinnable war for the Israelis; I can't see a way for them to get an 'out', every strike weakens the civillian governments will and capacity to act against Hezbollah and strengthens their recruiting calls, and the Israelis have been so hell bent on punishing Lebanon the country for Hezbollah the independent force, that they can't withdraw without massive loss of face.  We're looking at, most likely, 3 dead soldier hostages (and more IDF that that are already dead AFAIK), hundreds of civillians killed, no chance of the Lebanese government acting against Hezbollah, both Hezbollah and Hamas having strengthened recruiting drives in the aftermath of this, Lebanon probably ending up reliant on Syria or Iran to rebuild and possibly returning to being a puppet-state.

I don't see what the point was, myself.  It's like they had a list of military targets, but absolutely no consideration of the political, diplomatic, sociological, etc ramifications of razing a country for the acts of a 3rd party.  It's like the RAF bombing Dublin for the actions of the IRA.

EDIT; I bet Blair and Bush are glad it's pushing Iraq off the front pages, though.  You wouldn't know it from the media, but more have died in the same time period over there than through this proto-war. (for example, 53 killed today in a Kufu car bomb, 48 yesterday in Mahmoudiya , 23 in Tuz Khurmatu on Sunday....)

[Wanderer]

I have thought that could this be Israels current governments attempt to sweep the Hezbollah and Hamas 'issues' out of table for the duration of their current term, after which the hostilities which are sure to resume some time after this conflict will start anew, but wouldnt really be their problem any more would it... As that is all that i can see possible for Israel to achieve with its current attacks.

[Colonol Dekker]

Who read the metro this morning, Regarding Bush and Blair talking over a mic they thought was turned off. Bush allegedly said "all they gotta do is get the hezballah (sp?) to stop all that $h!t" or near enough. Which i thought was just downright idiotic.........

[vyper]

He said all they had to do was to get _Syria_ to stop it. Also, him and Blair weren't being too complimentary to old Kofi.

[aldo_14]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5188258.stm

Bush: And thanks for the sweaters - I know you picked em out yourself...

Blair: Oh yes absolutely - in fact I knitted it!!!

(laughter)

Bush: What about Kofi Annan - he seems all right. I don't like his ceasefire plan. His attitude is basically ceasefire and everything sorts out.... But I think...

Blair: Yeah the only thing I think is really difficult is that we can't stop this without getting international presence agreed. I think what you guys have talked about which is the criticism of the [inaudible word]. I am perfectly happy to try and see what the lie of the land is, but you need that done quickly because otherwise it will spiral.

Bush: Yeah I think Condi's [US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice] gonna go soon.

Blair: Well that's all that matters but if you... You see at least it gets it going.

Bush: I agree it's a process...I told her your offer too.

Blair: Well it's only if she needs the ground prepared as it were. If she goes out she HAS to succeed whereas I can just go and...

Bush: You see the irony is what they need to is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this **** and it's all over...

Blair: Dunno... Syria....

Bush: Why?

Blair: Because I think this is all part of the same thing...

Bush: (with mouth full of bread) Yeah

Blair: Look - what does he think? He thinks if Lebanon turns out fine. If you get a solution in Israel and Palestine. Iraq goes in the right way

Bush: Yeah - he's [indistinct]

Blair: Yeah.... He's had it. That's what all this is about - it's the same with Iran

Bush: I felt like telling Kofi to call, to get on the phone to Assad and make something happen.

Blair: Yeah

Bush: [indistinct] blaming Israel and [indistinct] blaming the Lebanese government....

[Colonol Dekker]

Did anyone else read that to the 2DTV voices shown on itv  last year?

[IPAndrews]

That there's fascinating stuff. Thanks for the post Aldo.

[aldo_14]

That there's fascinating stuff. Thanks for the post Aldo.

Just think; global crisis ongoing, war looming, and they start by talking about jumpers

[IPAndrews]

Just another day at the office.