[Kazan]

nah, i'm sick and tired of religious ****tards forcing their decisions onto the bodies of others - myself actually being the victim of such.

[Nuclear1]

Sorry, I'm not sure you've actually given a reason for sex for the purposes of pleasure being bad.  All I can see is a criticism of abortion, not having sex with sensible precautions.

all i can see (him, not you) is a culturally and personally immature noob who thinks he has the right to tell other people how to use their bodies.

IMHO getting an abortion is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more responsible than bringing the baby into the world very often.  he somehow sees that as "shirking their responsibility" - they HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY TO A HARDLY DIFFERENTIATED CLUSTER OF PARASITIC CELLS!

Hardly; it's just my opinion. I've no intention of forcing it on others, because, as I said before, I don't support anti-abortion legislation or politicians. The only reason I find abortion wrong is when two people decide to shirk the responsibility to the developed fetus that will become a human being in nine months. Kaz, we were all parasitic cells at one point, but aren't you glad your parents didn't treat you like that while you were in the womb?

I'd watch with the name calling too, bud--haven't you been banned/monkeyed because of that before once or twice? If you've got something to say to me, say it to me: not using me in the third person while you're quoting aldo's post. Is it personally immature of me that I've made a decision and am standing by it, though I don't intend in any way of forcing it on anyone else? Believe it or not, Kaz, not everyone raised in a Christian environment ends up being a bigot (which, by the way, I've noticed you've become in one way or another) or somebody who finds himself 'holier than thou'.

nah, i'm sick and tired of religious ****tards forcing their decisions onto the bodies of others - myself actually being the victim of such.

Have I not said hundreds of times that I don't base this off of religious viewpoints, but just common sense and a belief in personal (albeit long-term) responsibility? It really is becoming a chore to argue with you, Kaz, since you seem to be willing to put anyone that even mentions that they were raised as a Christian into the special category of evil that you seem to categorize them as.

Er, you might want to tone down a bit there Kaz, the lad is allowed to express his opinion without being insulted or barracked, regardless of whether you or I agree with it.

Really? I would have never noticed, given half the posts he's directed at me personally. People seem to be allowed choice, so long as it's the choice the Kaz agrees with.

[Wobble73]

 

Who's the religious ****tard???

I'll admit to being a noob, maybe even culturally and personally immature! But I am NOT and never have been religious!!! Get that!


Okay maybe I'm a ****tard, but I ain't religious okay buddy!!

[Nuclear1]

Who's the religious ****tard???

I believe Kaz may very well have been referring to myself or anyone else that's ever even slightly associated with the Christians...

[Colonol Dekker]

And to prove that i will make Wobble eat a bible ..

*forces bible down wobbles throat*



[bah too slow]

[Kazan]

Hardly; it's just my opinion. I've no intention of forcing it on others, because, as I said before, I don't support anti-abortion legislation or politicians.

sorry, I forget that you're anti-abortion but pro-choice

Kaz, we were all parasitic cells at one point, but aren't you glad your parents didn't treat you like that while you were in the womb?

irrelevant emotional appeal

Believe it or not, Kaz, not everyone raised in a Christian environment ends up being a bigot (which, by the way, I've noticed you've become in one way or another) or somebody who finds himself 'holier than thou'.

I haven't yet seen a christian, yourself included, without a "holier than thou" attitude - your post above about them supposeldy not taking responsibility is a "holier than thou" attitude.  Furthermore, it is not bigotry to cite LEGITIMATE FACTUAL problems with christians that they daily demonstrated to me.  Especially when they are daily supressing my rights, and have directly caused the mutilation of my body.

Have I not said hundreds of times that I don't base this off of religious viewpoints, but just common sense and a belief in personal (albeit long-term) responsibility?

common sense is anything but common, what you define as common sense undoubtably is based off the teachings of your religion, same as your view of what is responsibility.

It really is becoming a chore to argue with you, Kaz, since you seem to be willing to put anyone that even mentions that they were raised as a Christian into the special category of evil that you seem to categorize them as.

Until they stand up and demonstrate that they're not, then they're simply an enabler of those who are.  I have yet to see more than 10 christians who stand up for the rights of non-christians, and the vast majority of non extremists christians merely dismiss non-christian concerns about the seperation of church and state as "meaningly"/"irrelevant"/"whining".

Christians have been responsible for the supression of my rights and the mutilation of my body.  Until you show me that you stand up against your fellows who caused these, then you are an enabler and as guilty as they are.

[Wobble73]

Kaz, which christian church did your parents belong to?? I know of none that subscribe to circumcision. The jewsih and muslim faiths yes, I have heard they do it, but never a christian religion??

[Colonol Dekker]

The church saint anini-vevva-mununga-hood........the 4th


Seirously though, Christians dont condone it, But the parents can still do what they want, I been on the wrong end of a scalpel myself. 9 year olds have no pwer, At the time i couldnt do ****, But if life gives you eggs, make lemonade or something

[vyper]

The church saint anini-vevva-mununga-hood........the 4th


Seirously though, Christians dont condone it, But the parents can still do what they want, I been on the wrong end of a scalpel myself. 9 year olds have no pwer, At the time i couldnt do ****, But if life gives you eggs, make lemonade or something

So I'm thinking stealing the scalple and stabbing the ****er who was holding it, was out of the question?

[Nuclear1]

I haven't yet seen a christian, yourself included, without a "holier than thou" attitude - your post above about them supposeldy not taking responsibility is a "holier than thou" attitude.  Furthermore, it is not bigotry to cite LEGITIMATE FACTUAL problems with christians that they daily demonstrated to me.  Especially when they are daily supressing my rights, and have directly caused the mutilation of my body.

You believe that having a 'holier than thou' attitude is reflecting some element of hypocrisy, correct? In that case, don't you possess a 'holier than thou' attitude by elevating yourself above Christians and essentially calling them all bigots, and thus becoming a bigot yourself? For the last time, fundie Christians are not the same as the majority of Christians who live by the basic rules of love your neighbor as yourself. They are just the ones who happen to be the most active in government. I've not met many Christians where I live who believe in the suppression of homosexuals or anyone else who is non-Christian; that, again, goes to the Fundies.

common sense is anything but common, what you define as common sense undoubtably is based off the teachings of your religion, same as your view of what is responsibility.

Some of it, correct, but not all of it. Public school, believe it or not, led to me to my conclusions; taking responsibility for my actions was something that I had beaten into my head during the elementary years, and it only took time for me to form my opinion that someone who participates in an action such as sexual intercourse should be willing to take responsibility for their actions with pregnancy.

Christians have been responsible for the supression of my rights and the mutilation of my body.  Until you show me that you stand up against your fellows who caused these, then you are an enabler and as guilty as they are.

Where have I said that I support this kind of nonsense? I've said that I've no intention of forcing my religion or beliefs onto others, however much I do intend to live by my own set of beliefs and values. Not every Christian is an activist fundie that wants to horribly mutilate their baby or wants to oppress other people. I've never once argued for pushing anti-homosexual legislation or other fundie Christian legislation and you know it. I have, however, endured your tired remarks of calling me a bigot every time I don't agree with you, and then having my opinion constantly dismissed as illegitimate or unworthy of existence by you no matter how much leverage I give to debate with you. That's the exact reason I can stand much more to debate ethical or political issues with karajorma or aldo much more than I can with you: they don't automatically label anyone who disagrees with them as a bigot or somehow terrible person, but actually hears out their opinion.

[Colonol Dekker]

The church saint anini-vevva-mununga-hood........the 4th


Seirously though, Christians dont condone it, But the parents can still do what they want, I been on the wrong end of a scalpel myself. 9 year olds have no pwer, At the time i couldnt do ****, But if life gives you eggs, make lemonade or something

So I'm thinking stealing the scalple and stabbing the ****er who was holding it, was out of the question?

To be honest its not that bad, (it was 15 years ago bear in mind) On a serious note when you got an active "Jiggy" life, its a lot easier to erm,.............keep a clean house shall i say?

[aldo_14]

Hardly; it's just my opinion. I've no intention of forcing it on others, because, as I said before, I don't support anti-abortion legislation or politicians. The only reason I find abortion wrong is when two people decide to shirk the responsibility to the developed fetus that will become a human being in nine months.

Isn't the whole issue predicated upon whether your responsibility to yourself (and, I guess, to a lesser extent partner) is more or less important than towards what is at the time a set of cells?  To me it's entirely irrelevant whether the foetus will be a human being in xx weeks, so long as it isn't at the time of abortion; I'm not sure why abortion is considered as universally shirking responsibility when it is AFAIK rarely taken lightly and, even if it is in some cases, doesn't mean that holds for all cases with the same circumstances.   To me responsibility simply equates to taking the right decision; and for a abortion I think the rightness of that decision is very much down to the woman (primarily) and man (secondarily) involved.

EDIT; it increasingly strikes me, actually, that when we get onto this whole 'taking responsibility' thing, it's not about taking responsibility at all but mandating the physical and emotional discomfort of unwanted pregnancy and possibly subsequent child rearing as a punishment for having sex (regardless of what precautions were taken).

Albiet, I'd still be interested to know opinions from yourself and indeed anyone who is against non-reproductive sex RE: post vasectomy/hystorectomy.  Especially christian (or otherwise religious) peeps, as I doubt sterilization was available (or at least, survivable voluntary sterilization) when the major religions were forming their various rules.

Kaz, we were all parasitic cells at one point, but aren't you glad your parents didn't treat you like that while you were in the womb?

Technically, if they did, he wouldn't regret it because he'd never be aware of it.  i mean, there is an infinite number of people that will never exist anyways, for whatever reason, and there's no more reason I can see to regard abortion in that context than there is for miscarriage or a different set of chromosomes being selected, etc.

(for point of reference, I was an unplanned baby; although certain other personal/private issues mean I wasn't necessarily unwanted, so it's slightly different from this type of scenario)

[Kazan]

Kaz, which christian church did your parents belong to?? I know of none that subscribe to circumcision. The jewsih and muslim faiths yes, I have heard they do it, but never a christian religion??

it's not an official doctrine of the prostent church.  However I know of an incident in canada where a boy, then 8 years old, was forcibly held down and his foreskin crudely removed by two priests for his "masturbatory ways".  The Canadian healthcare system just paid for skin to be grafted onto his penis to repair the damage - his circumcision was so severe he could not get an erection without pain.

The reason why it is accurate to blame christians is that it was brought to america by christians in the late 1800s as a "cure to masturbation" (they KNEW it reduced sexual pleasure) - specifically Dr Kellogg (as in frosted flakes).  It was then carried on with junk science that I still faith to fathom how it doesn't get laughed out of peer reviewed journals in the US to this day (And does get laughed out elsewhere).

The practice was restarted by christians to deprive boys of sexual pleasure.  It serves no other purpose.

[Kazan]

To be honest its not that bad, (it was 15 years ago bear in mind) On a serious note when you got an active "Jiggy" life, its a lot easier to erm,.............keep a clean house shall i say?

at the cost of 66% of the nerves of the penis, the desensatization of the remaining nerves, and often making the use of artificial lubricants required to make coitus not painful for the woman - and a decreased likelyhood of being able to make the woman orgasm from vaginal penetration alone.

[Kazan]

nuclear1: You are not a fundie, I know this.  However I don't see you actively opposing them.  I don't see you working against their co-opting of your religion.  I just see the moderate christians sitting their quietly, doing nothing about the behavior because it isn't infringing upon them.  In this situation you are either actively supporting freedom, or you are it's enemy.  People who like freedom, but do nothing to defend it, are guilty of being "good men doing nothing".

[Colonol Dekker]

Kaz, which christian church did your parents belong to?? I know of none that subscribe to circumcision. The jewsih and muslim faiths yes, I have heard they do it, but never a christian religion??

it's not an official doctrine of the prostent church.  However I know of an incident in canada where a boy, then 8 years old, was forcibly held down and his foreskin crudely removed by two priests for his "masturbatory ways".  The Canadian healthcare system just paid for skin to be grafted onto his penis to repair the damage - his circumcision was so severe he could not get an erection without pain.

The reason why it is accurate to blame christians is that it was brought to america by christians in the late 1800s as a "cure to masturbation" (they KNEW it reduced sexual pleasure) - specifically Dr Kellogg (as in frosted flakes).  It was then carried on with junk science that I still faith to fathom how it doesn't get laughed out of peer reviewed journals in the US to this day (And does get laughed out elsewhere).

The practice was restarted by christians to deprive boys of sexual pleasure.  It serves no other purpose.

Holy crap, thats completely different to my situation, Mine was purley medical, The above is just mutoilation and ABH, plus priest porn.......

[Colonol Dekker]

To be honest its not that bad, (it was 15 years ago bear in mind) On a serious note when you got an active "Jiggy" life, its a lot easier to erm,.............keep a clean house shall i say?

at the cost of 66% of the nerves of the penis, the desensatization of the remaining nerves, and often making the use of artificial lubricants required to make coitus not painful for the woman - and a decreased likelyhood of being able to make the woman orgasm from vaginal penetration alone.

Eh? What you on about i got kids, and my £%$% works fine, in fact one time i thought about a bird from Charmed and it worked too well, but thats another story.....

[Kazan]

Holy crap, thats completely different to my situation, Mine was purley medical, The above is just mutoilation and ABH, plus priest porn.......

oh yeah.. i forgot to mention they broke his arm and jaw in the process of holding him down and doing it without pain killers.

yours was medical (i guessed as much based upon your age), what condition did you have? If you say "phimosis" i advise you to hunt down that doctor and cut his penis off.

[Kazan]

To be honest its not that bad, (it was 15 years ago bear in mind) On a serious note when you got an active "Jiggy" life, its a lot easier to erm,.............keep a clean house shall i say?

at the cost of 66% of the nerves of the penis, the desensatization of the remaining nerves, and often making the use of artificial lubricants required to make coitus not painful for the woman - and a decreased likelyhood of being able to make the woman orgasm from vaginal penetration alone.

Eh? What you on about i got kids, and my £%$% works fine, in fact one time i thought about a bird from Charmed and it worked too well, but thats another story.....

"functional" and "working properly" are two different things.  send me an instant message and i'll give you some links

[Colonol Dekker]

I'm not dicussing my winkles functionality with anyone except my wife and maybe a doctor should it ever drop off.

This isnt the general cir*******sition thread fury closed that.
anyway,................Who reckons Jesus was the original hippy?