[Dark Hunter]

IIRC, there is a nebula ~8000 years old that I heard people guessing could have been created during the Ancient-Shivan War? I don't remember which nebula, but I remember a discussion taking place about it.

[foolfromhell]

It IS interesting to note that we never hear of the Sathanas being encountered by the Ancients, that means one of two things...

1: The Ancients only had to deal with the Lucifer, and never encountered a Sathanas.
2: The Ancients DID encounter them, but that was classified to GTI only.

One thing makes me suspect that 2 is actually the correct option. When the GTVA went through the Knossos they appeared in a Nebula that it was heavily hinted once contained a star that the Shivans destroyed. In that system, probably out of blast range, was more than one Knossos.

So the question is, was that system a Nebula when the Knossos were built?

What does that have to do with ANYTHING??

[Flipside]

You misunderstand me. A Subspace network that exists in the same PHYSICAL space as the GTVA, but does not connect to GTVA space. The GTVA foolishly builds a Knosson portal to a weak node, opening a portal to the new civilization!

About as much as that does I guess.

[foolfromhell]

You misunderstand me. A Subspace network that exists in the same PHYSICAL space as the GTVA, but does not connect to GTVA space. The GTVA foolishly builds a Knosson portal to a weak node, opening a portal to the new civilization!

About as much as that does I guess.

Nope. I suggest that there might be sentient races in the same physical space, but yours has to do with the origin of the Lucifer. wtf? That is part of a different thread.

[Flipside]

Actually you started talking about something that does not exist, has no evidence of existing and isn't any the more relevant. I could turn around and say 'Hey, what if the tooth fairies turned up and magically transported us to another planet?', after all, that involves contact with another race, doesn't make it any the less without reason.

Considering the rest of the conversation was about the surviveability of alien races other than ours with the Shivans wandering around, it's interesting to question when and where the Sathanas first arrived. There is no great evidence other than conjecture as to where the Sathanas come into play, the later they appear, the greater the possibility that there are other races to encounter because their stars have not been destroyed.

That is why it is interesting to note that the Ancients' don't, to the players' knowledge, seem to have encountered them, because if they were around then, there is a much lower possibility of us encountering other life forms.

[foolfromhell]

Why dont you make that clear then?

Considering the rest of the conversation was about the surviveability of alien races other than ours with the Shivans wandering around,

Which is what I mean. There could be subspace networks that are not at all connected to GTVA networks. Even Shivans cant jump if there is NO node...

[AlphaOne]

You are asuming way too much. For such a network to exist...bleah....my head hurt too much if I try to prove you wrong. You are just wrong. Now there could be a node sistem that would be accesable from just one node or something like that which would prove to be a huge advantage if the GTVA found it but...the shivans have a nasty habbit of creating subspace nodes to diferent sistems by using even the most unstable and most short lived jump node . this is cannon. On the other hand with the GTVA having Knossos tech now they could link to that cluster of sistems through a numerous of other nodes. If none exist which is hyghl;y unlikeli then they just create one.


Wherever there are star sistems there are 99% of the times jump nodes.

[TrashMan]

One thing makes me suspect that 2 is actually the correct option. When the GTVA went through the Knossos they appeared in a Nebula that it was heavily hinted once contained a star that the Shivans destroyed. In that system, probably out of blast range, was more than one Knossos.

So the question is, was that system a Nebula when the Knossos were built?

Impossible. A supernova would destroy EVERYTHING in system and even furtehr. If a Knossos was built before the star went nova it would have been destroyed... So obviously, it was built after that...

[TrashMan]

You are asuming way too much. For such a network to exist...bleah....my head hurt too much if I try to prove you wrong. You are just wrong. Now there could be a node sistem that would be accesable from just one node or something like that which would prove to be a huge advantage if the GTVA found it but...the shivans have a nasty habbit of creating subspace nodes to diferent sistems by using even the most unstable and most short lived jump node . this is cannon. On the other hand with the GTVA having Knossos tech now they could link to that cluster of sistems through a numerous of other nodes. If none exist which is hyghl;y unlikeli then they just create one.

The shivans can use nodes too unstable for the Terrans or Vasudans but they sure as hell can't CREATE them..

[AlphaOne]

You may be right but the question is how soon after the nova wa the Knossos built and the second one...! The one the Psamtik finds.

Nevertheless it would seem that the shivans do not have such a thing called as a homeworld at least not in our galaxi. At least that is what it seemed to me. Sure they may have bases of operations so to speak but they homw world/s could be in an entire different galaxi altoghether.

Rmember that the ancients said at some point that they empire stretched the entire galaxy and beyond ! This would sugest to me that the ancients stumbeled upon the bees nest and tried to subdue them like they usualy did. Only this time....well...the rest is history...!

Perhaps the shivans never even intented to fight the Ancients but they must of somehow been forced into this by some destruction caused by the Ancients ...perhaps of they homeworld or something like that. Then they sent in the Lucifer/s and beaten the Ancients back. Then went like...an eye for an eye. This would explain the shivans obsesion with destroing planets.


Just a theory. Perhaps they were shivans that went insane who knows...! This would explain the diferent tactics employed the second time.

[foolfromhell]

One thing makes me suspect that 2 is actually the correct option. When the GTVA went through the Knossos they appeared in a Nebula that it was heavily hinted once contained a star that the Shivans destroyed. In that system, probably out of blast range, was more than one Knossos.

So the question is, was that system a Nebula when the Knossos were built?

Impossible. A supernova would destroy EVERYTHING in system and even furtehr. If a Knossos was built before the star went nova it would have been destroyed... So obviously, it was built after that...

Unless it was far enough out of the star that it didnt get the Shockwave and instead, got the diffusing gas.
Notice the Moloch and Deimos in the end FS2 cutscene didnt get THAT damaged by the supernova? They merely got crushed? A Meson bomb would have dont the same thing. The Knossos has been proven to survive a meson bomb anyway.

[AlphaOne]

If that is the case...then a Knossos or more could of easely survive the Nova. This would mean that the shivans have a habbit of repeat performances.

[TrashMan]

Unless it was far enough out of the star that it didnt get the Shockwave and instead, got the diffusing gas.
Notice the Moloch and Deimos in the end FS2 cutscene didnt get THAT damaged by the supernova? They merely got crushed? A Meson bomb would have dont the same thing. The Knossos has been proven to survive a meson bomb anyway.

Eh? They were vaporized...look the ani again...

[foolfromhell]

Really? I could have sworn that they were crushed...
Eh. Still. The explosion is comparable to a Meson bomb, yes? I mean, Meson bomb at point blank vs. super nova at hundreds of AUs from sun.
I mean, the last mission in FS2 was very close to the sun, considering that the shockwave reached the player in such short notice. If that was the SOL system, it would have taken 10+ minutes for the shockwave to reach Earth. Clearly, the shockwaves arent THAT strong...

[TrashMan]

Well the Moloch and the Demos where first hit by some kind of heat wave that apparently moves faster than the main blast..tehy were singed but still in one peace.. After that they "White blast of doom" came and vaporized them.

As for a supernova..it's explosion isn't comparable to anything ...except for another supernova. It's vaporizes PLANETS and GAS GIANTS and practicly everything else...

Basicly immagine a nuke several million times the size of Earth...well, bigger and meaner than that.

[AlphaOne]

Well I supose with enough meson you could produce an explosion similar to the one cause by a star gooing nova. also it depends on the size of the star. since a bigger star will produce a bigger bang while a smaller one a smaller explosion.  So then you will need what.....enough meson to form a small moon out of them in order to produce a similar bang to that of a supernova??

[foolfromhell]

Nono. What I mean is, sticking a meson bomb 2km from a moloch will provide the same results as a Supernova millions of miles away

[Mehrpack]

The shivans can use nodes too unstable for the Terrans or Vasudans but they sure as hell can't CREATE them..

hi,
yeah, but i think maybe they can forecasting the building or maybe they can manipulate or fasten the prozess.
but we dont know it, how advance thiere subspace technologie is, only that is more advance as the of the GTVA.

Nono. What I mean is, sticking a meson bomb 2km from a moloch will provide the same results as a Supernova millions of miles away

we doesnt have any corectly data of the energyrate that set free a meson bomb explosion.
so we dont can it compare.
but a supernova is the biggest energy explosion that the mankind had observed in the universe, only a black hole set more energy free (a black hole set 40% of the mass that collapse in it free as energy).
if a great star go to a supernova the pressur in the core is so high, that it create elements above iron.

its really hard to believe that any in the solarsystem can survive so an explosion and after the explosion the pulsar they left after the sun die, blow away, of the center, the hot gas.

Mehrpack

[Ghostavo]

Well the Moloch and the Demos where first hit by some kind of heat wave that apparently moves faster than the main blast..tehy were singed but still in one peace.. After that they "White blast of doom" came and vaporized them.

As for a supernova..it's explosion isn't comparable to anything ...except for another supernova. It's vaporizes PLANETS and GAS GIANTS and practicly everything else...

Basicly immagine a nuke several million times the size of Earth...well, bigger and meaner than that.

A funny thing, althought I think it was due to technical limitations, is that the planets in the cutscene don't get destroyed (apart from waves of heat/energy across the surface) or vaporized, they are just pushed away. 

[Flipside]

It's also a question of what kind of explosion it is, Meson blasts probably release one hell of a lot of energy, but very little 'matter', there's no real shrapnel in a Meson blast, whereas a Supernova not only is one of the strongest X-Ray sources known, but explodes like a grenade, throwing massive chunks of superheated matter in every direction at phenomenal speeds.