[TrashMan]

I read. And then I read you say that they were unlikely.

I'm asking for one you consider likely other than it being an accident.

I said that IMHO, this one or that one don't really explain everything or that there are better explanationions. I certantly didn't say that for all the theories thrown around...I even commented that some were good.

[karajorma]

Such as?

[TrashMan]

Do I really need to read the thread for you? You seem to have two perfecly good eyes in that watermellon between your shoulders.
What next, should I bottle feed you too?

*sigh*
Allrighty. What can explain such shivan losses?
Either the shivans planned it or they didn't.

If the planned such loses, the question is why?
Maybe they are suicidal. Maybe it's some religious ritual. Maybe the left extra forces behind just to make super extra sure. Maybe the forces didn't want to leave.

If they didn't plan it what went wrong?
Calculation error? Missing component supplies? GTVA interference?

[karajorma]

If the planned such loses, the question is why?
Maybe they are suicidal. Maybe it's some religious ritual. Maybe the left extra forces behind just to make super extra sure. Maybe the forces didn't want to leave.

So given that those are according to you credible theories on what grounds do you now object to the Shivans blowing up Capella to make a node?

Cause the entire crux of your argument as far as I could see was that none of those were credible.

If I need to get you to spell things out simply it's because what you are saying now contradicts what you were saying earlier.

[TrashMan]

There is no contradiction. You're seeing Venus reflecting off swamp gas.

WTF did I ever say shivan node-creating was not credible?

[karajorma]

WTF did I ever say shivan node-creating was not credible?

Evidently you need to look up the word credible in one of those dictionaries you are too busy to use.

The super-jump node theory isn't any more plausible than a giant shivan BBQ or mass suicide theory.

Would you like to eat your own words with Chilli or BBQ sauce now?

[TrashMan]

........you say you've been using dictionaries..where they latin or spanish? Now I doubt they were english.

The super-jump node theory isn't any more plausible than a giant shivan BBQ or mass suicide theory.

How is that contradictory with anything?
With lack of a official explanation, any theory that explains the in-game facts is just AS plausible (more or less)

[karajorma]

Oh wait. You're now claiming that all theories are credible since we don't know which one used? The Shivan BBQ is a credible theory according to you?

[TrashMan]

You are grasping at straws here if you're trying using verbal expressions against me.

Do phrases like "I'm excited as a turkey for thanksgiving!", "That show has got a plot hole the size of Texas!", "He's so slow he's going backwards in time." mean anything to you? I guess deliberate puns, or overblowing something to get the point across are unheard off where you live?

If you're taking every single word or phrase I say literary then we have nothing to talk about. The communication is broken at the most fundamental level.

[karajorma]

I'm using exactly what you said against you. I'm even not taking you literally.

You're saying that "That show has got a plot hole the size of Texas!" means that you don't think the show has any major plot holes. You're saying that "He's so slow he's going backwards in time." means he moves quickly and you're saying that "The super-jump node theory isn't any more plausible than a giant shivan BBQ or mass suicide theory." means this is a perfectly credible theory which I consider to be a reasonably likely possibility.

In other words you're talking complete and utter bollocks.


I've been saying for several posts now that you have rubbished every single theory other than your own that Capella was an accident. And look at the theory you have pointed out to me as theory you haven't rubbished. One which you've made statements about it being as plausible about theories that are a joke!

[TrashMan]

Indeed, the communication here isn't working.

I haven't rubbished anything. There isn't just ONE other theory I consider highly probable, there are several.
The BBQ theory is a joke.

Whatever you're on, stop taking it. Get some rest, sober up.

[karajorma]

So name one.

[TrashMan]

So scroll up and read. Pfft.. and you call me lazy.

[karajorma]

You didn't name a credible theory though. You said

Maybe they are suicidal. Maybe it's some religious ritual. Maybe the left extra forces behind just to make super extra sure. Maybe the forces didn't want to leave.

Fine but none of that answers what the Shivans were actually doing. So it's only half a theory anyway. You've already said that they didn't successfully make a supernode. So what the **** do you think they were doing? The first one possibly explains what they were up to but you've also claimed it was rubbish. The others are incomplete.

[TrashMan]

What are you rambling about?

I never went into exactly what they were doing.. making a supernode, blowing a sun, making a phone call home...what the hell do I know? Whatever their "plan" or "project" was it either worked or didn't.

I'm trying to come up with explanations why they lost so many ships, regardless of what they were doing.
You might say it's impossible to do that if you don't know what the plan was, but that's not entirely true.

Whatever their plan was it can always be executed efficiently or not.
We know their plan involved bombarding the sun with a subspace field and harassing the GTVA. Make your own conclusion from there on.

[Marcus Vesper]

What are you rambling about?

I never went into exactly what they were doing.. making a supernode, blowing a sun, making a phone call home...what the hell do I know? Whatever their "plan" or "project" was it either worked or didn't.

I'm trying to come up with explanations why they lost so many ships, regardless of what they were doing.
You might say it's impossible to do that if you don't know what the plan was, but that's not entirely true.

Whatever their plan was it can always be executed efficiently or not.
We know their plan involved bombarding the sun with a subspace field and harassing the GTVA. Make your own conclusion from there on.

Here's a helpful quote to remind us about the importance of meaning:

"We'll find you and bring you back, with surgical  precision."  Rincewind cringed, he knew what surgical precision meant in Ankh Morpork (to within an inch or two, then they poor hot tar just where your leg used to be).

Now Trashman, when you list a serious theory along with an obvious joke and then call them both equally plausible, what that means is you think they're both equally stupid.  Whatever you think you meant, each and every time you attempt to explain it, you end up saying exactly the same thing.  We can't all be Humpty Dumpty and assert that when we use words, they mean precisely what we wish them to.  Reason being, that would pretty much destroy the entirety of human communication if it were carried out to the logical extreme.

[TrashMan]

It was pretty obvious what I mean but apparently I have to try harder with you.

[karajorma]

How is it obvious that when you say

"The super-jump node theory isn't any more plausible than a giant shivan BBQ or mass suicide theory." you mean that the super-jump node is plausible but the giant shivan BBQ isn't? This must some weird Trashman version of English.

[TrashMan]

IMHO, the mass suicide theory is quite plausible really.

As for the BBQ theory...could be..altough that has been thrown around like a gag around here for ages. Excuse me for trying to be a bit funny.

So maybe I didn't formulate  my response perfectly..who cares. The moment you get so stuck up on semantics and any errors in what I wrote a few pages ago, instead of what I said, you are already grasping at straws.

[Marcus Vesper]

The moment you get so stuck up on semantics and any errors in what I wrote a few pages ago, instead of what I said, you are already grasping at straws.

But what you wrote a few pages ago is what you said.  And to be frank, you could almost build a drinking game revolving around how many times you contradict yourself in any lengthy thread.  I would, but I'm not much of a drinker.

Seriously though, nailing down precisely what you think at any given time in a long enough thread is like catching a greased pig: Just when you think you have it, it slips away again.

Oh wow, I just got a mental image of the Wizard of Oz shouting "Pay no attention to my prior arguments that contradict what I'm saying now!", awesome!  That just made my evening.