Author Topic: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital  (Read 42335 times)

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Offline Koth

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Failure?



That's not what I would call a 'failure'.




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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Put it in front of the Sathanas.

Doooooo eeeeeeeet.

DOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEET.

 

Offline Koth

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Put the Golgotha in front of Sathanas

DOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEET.

DOOOOOOOOO EEEEEEEEEEET.

Golgotha goes KABLOOIE. See the pattern here?

(I don't know how much damage the Meson Beam of the Golgotha does but if three Golgothas can take out a Sathanas in about a minute a lone Golgotha will probably be toasted by a Sathanas because it doesn't have as much armor as the Colossus)
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Exactly, you don't know how much damage the Meson Cannon does, therefore your speculation is unfounded.

Don't change the subject though. We were talking about the 20 year money investment.

 

Offline Snail

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Failure?

Failure at somethings, success at others.

 

Offline Koth

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Put any ship the GTVA posesses in front of a Sathanas and it WILL be toast. As for the 20 year investment and the point of buliding smaller and more flexible ships, I always like to quote Ngtm1r on that subject: ''Sometimes you need flexibility and sometimes you need a sledgehammer''.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 08:42:04 am by Koth »
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Offline Prophet

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
We were talking about the 20 year money investment.
A good investment. At the time GTVA was in trouble. Economic problems and rebellions. The Colossus provided a symbol. Proof of GTVA power and might. And it also destroyed the NTF. Money well invested IMO. Without the shivans GTVA would have been lika complete bad asses.

But on the long run. Colossus would have been mothballed five days after the NTF rebellion was over. Good thing the Shivans came and killed that money sucking black hole...
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Not much of a sledgehammer considering 20 years make no difference between it and any other ship the GTVA posesses. When it counts.

Also, for those of you who weren't paying much attention during the main campaign, the Colossus had nothing to do with the destruction of the NTF.

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Well the NTF got caught between Alpha 1 and the Collie, so I guess the credit is shared. Bosch ran his regime to the ground, but you know you need a whole fleet to take the C down. NTF had no such resources to spare without endangering it's holdings. Only thing they could have done, was sabotage. And no one knows how that would have ended.

Had the Shivans never appeared, Collie would have raped the NTF. Sure they might have destroyed it. But not without committing huge amounts of resources doing it.
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
You didn't figure out what went on during the King's Gambit-Endgame missions and your time with the 64th Raptors, didja?

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
I think we may have a difference of opinion here... :nod:

Besides. My outrageous claims are partly hypotetical. With the without the Shivans and all that... Bosch was mostly just after the Shivans. Without the Knossos to divide his attention, and the ultimate mad dash to it, the rebellion would have dragged on. For years maybe...
I'm not saying anything. I did not say anything then and I'm not saying anything now. -Dukath
I am not breaking radio silence just cos' you lot got spooked by a dead flying ****ing cow. -Sergeant Harry Wells/Dog Soldiers


Prophet is walking in the deep dark places of the earth...

 

Offline Snail

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
I think we may have a difference of opinion here... :nod:

Took you that long to figure it out, huh? :rolleyes:

(j/k, don't kill me)

 

Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
I think we may have a difference of opinion here... :nod:

Besides. My outrageous claims are partly hypotetical. With the without the Shivans and all that... Bosch was mostly just after the Shivans. Without the Knossos to divide his attention, and the ultimate mad dash to it, the rebellion would have dragged on. For years maybe...

Okay, let me recap some things for you.

"Command? Where's the blockade? Why isn't the alliance guarding this node?"

"I regret to inform you that your efferts to intercept us have failed pilots. You would be well advised to question the wisdom of your leaders. Helm, engage subspace drive"

So. Command traded Bosch withdrawing his forces from Deneb for his unfettered access to the Sirius jump node.

The only reason for you to see that, was for something that would happen later, which you would be able to figure out from his monologues.

Fast foward to King's Gambit. You enter the field of engagement precisely at the time for the re-initiantion jumps of the NTF capital ships. Orions, Deimos', Aeolus', you name it, it jumped in. You nuke it all, and Command knows exactly no more are coming, time for you to go somewhere else.

Enter Sicilian Defense - now, right here you should've heard something familiar.

"Command? I've got a visual on the Vindicator, but the Iceni is nowhere to be found. Either recon screwed up, or Bosch jumped already. Should we abort?"

Of course, you do not abort, you destroy the second Orion, and then you pound the ass of some other nice ships that jump in, a Deimos, etc. etc. and then it's time to go to the gate.

Come Endgame, few more ships jump in that the Colossus is more than ready to dispatch, and then BAM, HERE COMES THE ENTIRE REASON FOR THE PAST THREE MISSIONS! Uh oh? What's that? Guns don't work? DAYUM!

Now, I believe Goober was the first to point out (some of us knew it already but never talked about it, I personally figured it was obvious as hell) that of course, there was no sabotage on the Colossus, it was the GTVI that let Bosch go by. After all, it makes sense that you wouldn't want to destroy the Iceni, you would want to board it and take ETAK, considering how it is the focal point of the entire reason the NTF exists.

However, for those of us who are good at solving puzzles, you can clearly see from the setup of these few missions when you're with the 64th Raptors, what exactly happened, through the Bosch monologues when he talks about the NTF being stupid cattle, etc. etc.

See, what happened wasn't that the GTVI let Iceni jump, as much as it was another trade. First, Bosch sacrificed his forces in Deneb for his unfettered access to the Sirius jump node, and here, he basically sacrificed the bulk of his NTF fleet for clear passage to and across the Knossos. He gave the GTVA the exact time those ships would be coming out of the nodes (after he had ordered the NTF ships to go through those nodes) and for letting the GTVA take care of their inhouse traitors, he was given free passage to continue his ETAK project at his own expense.

You will note throughout the entire game that is Freespace 2, that Bosch succeeds at EVERYTHING he sets out to do. EVERYTHING. This is the reason he gets his own monologues. From activating the portal, to making friends with the Shivans. What the Shivan intentions are, we will never know, however what we do know is that Bosch did go to whatever the Shivans call "home" (in this, our, universe anyway). We know this, because the only reason we ever found the second Knossos in that huge nebula, was because recon tracked the Azrael transport that carried Bosch to it, and the Azrael jumped to the binary system beyond, which means Bosch was heading to places no other man has, as in, the Shivans let him go beyond. The sign of a good strategist, and therefore Admiral, is to know when to trade your chess pieces (and for what to trade them for) to achieve your objective. He traded his assets perfectly to achieve his "joy". Traded in everyone at the NTF, even the crew of the Iceni in the end, to get his way.

Coming back to what destoryed the NTF - Bosch did. You were just there at the right time to get your medals. Thinking you had anything to do with it though, is just a fairy tale. It was Bosch who created the NTF by playing to the retards fears, and it was Bosch that ended the NTF by trading them in for his true objective. See, this is one of the reasons Freespace 2 is such a good game.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 01:19:24 pm by BlackDove »

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Not much of a sledgehammer considering 20 years make no difference between it and any other ship the GTVA posesses. When it counts.

Also, for those of you who weren't paying much attention during the main campaign, the Colossus had nothing to do with the destruction of the NTF.

I find it strange to classify a ship a failure if it can't take on every other ship in the universe..that's laughable.
That's like saying a WW2 destroyer is a failure since it can't take on a carrier 1 on 1.

IF A SHIP PERFORMS THE ROLE IT WAS MEANT FOR ADMIRABLY IT IS NOT A FAILURE!

The Collie can kill shivans en masse. Everything but a Sath is a walk in the park! Demon? Ravana? Lucy? TOAST
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
No, the Colossus was designed to kill the strongest Shivan ship. It therefore, fails.

Beyond that, I will not comment.

  

Offline Koth

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
It was designed to take on the strongest Shivan ship the GTVA KNEW of which at the time when the Colossus was designed was the Lucifer. What else could the GTVA have done? Build more smaller ships? Those would have ended up as toast just like the Colossus did. 
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Ah yes, you see, that is what the whole thing is about.

But like I said, beyond what I've written, I will not comment.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
No, the Colossus was designed to kill the strongest Shivan ship. It therefore, fails.

Beyond that, I will not comment.


:wtf:

A ship that can totally pwn everything but a single ship class is a faliure?
Damn, we better alert the armies of the world to scrap every singe tank, plane and ship they ever made - all are failures!
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Offline Koth

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Trashman, don't bother with him. Black Dove is very solid about his opinion. But I like his writeup on Bosch.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 01:32:35 pm by Koth »
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Offline Snail

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Trashman, don't bother with him.

I said it before and I'll say it again:

There are several people on HLP I wouldn't like to meet in RL. One is an0n.

The other is BlackDove.