Author Topic: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital  (Read 42345 times)

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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Like I said.

Likelyhood. I'm not saying "YES I KNOW WHAT HAPPENED". Yes, maybe they send them in for XXXXXXXX reason. Nobody knows. Nobody cares.

However, if you're going to choose between;

a) The Colossus remains in system in order to not have the Sathanas follow it into Vega or Epsilon Pegasi. Therefore the reasoning for their decision to remain in the system and be destroyed is logical, and well measured since it is guaranteed more than 30 000 lives would be lost if a Sathanas got passed the Capella line

or

b) The Colossus remains in the system because its engines are disabled. The Admiral is lying. The Sathanas just jumped into the system to guard the node of a star that's about to go supernova anyway.

or

c) The Colossus remains in the system because its engines are disabled. The Admiral is lying. The Sathanas jumped in to escort 3 freighters.

or

d) The Colossus remains in the system because its engines are disabled. The Admiral is lying. The Sathanas jumped in to PROTECT COMMUNICATIONS AND ACT LIKE A RECIEVER OR TRANSMITTER FOR ANYONE IN GAMMA DRACONIS!

Tell me, which one do you choose? Beware, there is only one right choice, the others make you a moron. Get the point?

 

Offline Prophet

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Let's examine the likelyhood of a Sathanas jumping in with an entire fleet to guard a node that's about to be covered by a Supernova.
So they rather send the juggernaut to destroy the Colossus that is about to be destroyed by the supernova...?

Because as we all KNOW, the Shivans regularly send Sathanas class warships to guard nodes.
Because we all KNOW that the GTVA had already destroyed everything else they sent in to secure the node.


EDIT: And all A B C and D are possible. I just cant back that up because you are on HyperPosting-mode and you'd have three more posts up by the time I'm finished explaining myself... :doubt:
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 11:59:48 am by Prophet »
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
I didn't see anything jumping in afterwards. Did you?

And a Colossus that jumps out, is a Colossus that is intended to make it out of Capella. Whether it makes it or not is arbitrary to the point. Quit reaching for bull**** just to be able to disagree.

EDIT: And all A B C and D are possible. I just cant back that up because you are on HyperPosting-mode and you'd have three more posts up by the time I'm finished explaining myself... :doubt:


Yes, that's why I've put it up as a multiple choice. It's your choice.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 12:06:59 pm by BlackDove »

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
I'd say it's pretty obvious they sent the Sath because everything else they sent failed.... which probably means the shivies weren't happy.

Shivies like their nodes. I don't think the Sath would chase after the Collie, after all, it was needed at the star..

B.t.w., there is more there than just your 4 possibilities.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 12:44:56 pm by TrashMan »
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Yes, and as soon as you get me a coherent one that doesn't involve communications, transmissions and recievers, I'll be more than happy to consider it.

Shivans indeed like their nodes. Shivans however, prefer to jump out instead of wait for a supernova to engulf them. You know where they also like to jump out? Terran-Vasudan space. They really like to make those jumps.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
You consider shivans wanting to protect their communications incoherent???
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Offline karajorma

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Either make actual arguments or don't bother posting. Any further picture only posts will also be deleted.
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Oh I'm sorry.

You consider shivans wanting to protect their communications incoherent???

No.

Was that not clear?

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
My bad. I misread your post.

Just FYI - colossus being really disabled or not is another matter and you can have a yes/no scenario for every of the 4 options.

EDIT - simply because it's funny:

Le click
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
I suspect that was what ngtm1r was on about too but he used the wrong word.

No, actually using the right words, but someone's not understanding them in the proper fashion. I suppose I'm speaking military better than people here understand it. The phrase "lines of communication" does not refer to what it seems to have been interpreted as, perhaps a historical allusion to the days when they sent runners for communications. Instead it means the ability to bring reinforcements and supplies forward to a fighting front/unit.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
I meant wrong in the meaning that the others didn't get your meaning. I was sure you mean supply and reinforcements right away.

However, if you're going to choose between;

Except that those aren't the only choices. For a start I've not been talking about communications. I've been talking about supply lines and a way out of Capella. No human or Vasudan would allow the enemy to cut their supply lines and if the Shivans needed them for anything else I doubt they would either.

Secondly there is an enormous difference between what the captain of the Colossus thought the Shivans would do next and what they actually would do. Staying behind to stop the Shivans makes them heroes regardless of what would actually have happened. So Petrach is still correct to call them that. This community is unfortunately full of armchair tacticians who claim that they would have known what to do in any given situation and how it was a better choice that whatever Command or Bosch or whoever did. I've always hated that. I'm not going to argue that the Colossus made the wrong choice to stay behind or that they should have jumped out.

In other words I'm picking A and E. With E being that the Shivans might not have followed the Colossus if it had jumped out. That doesn't mean that they made the wrong choice to stay though.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 01:38:28 pm by karajorma »
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
However, if you're going to choose between;

Except that those aren't the only choices. For a start I've not been talking about communications. I've been talking about supply lines and a way out of Capella. No human or Vasudan would allow the enemy to cut their supply lines and if the Shivans needed them for anything else I doubt they would either.

Secondly there is an enormous difference between what the captain of the Colossus thought the Shivans would do next and what they actually would do. Staying behind to stop the Shivans makes them heroes regardless of what would actually have happened. So Petrach is still correct to call them that. This community is unfortunately full of armchair tacticians who claim that they would have known what to do in any given situation and how it was a better choice that whatever Command or Bosch or whoever did. I've always hated that. I'm not going to argue that the Colossus made the wrong choice to stay behind or that they should have jumped out.

In other words I'm picking A and E. With E being that the Shivans might not have followed the Colossus if it had jumped out. That doesn't mean that they made the wrong choice to stay though.

Yes, I'll take the Admirals thoughts in character over anyone elses here regarding the fate of the fictional story he's a part of. Funny, I thought that's what we were all doing. But no, even when they say it, it's not like that, because you yourself know most and the fictional characters in the fictional story? They know nothing.

You need to abandon that line of thought as soon as possible, it does NOT work well for you in any sort of way.

Yes, they aren't the only choices. What is wrong with you people? Those were the 4 prominent choices I've taken from this discussion. You can add five hundred and fifty five more choices, and I'm going to bet that they're all going to end up looking like the ones below A, because the ones below A are your best bets so far, and they're really horrible horrible bets.

E is retarded as well, because it disregards the purpose of the mission (distraction) and it disregards the notion of the admiral of the Colossus. I'd assume someone with that rank, commanding the biggest ship ever, would know much better about what he was talking about, then you would.

I suspect that was what ngtm1r was on about too but he used the wrong word.

No, actually using the right words, but someone's not understanding them in the proper fashion. I suppose I'm speaking military better than people here understand it. The phrase "lines of communication" does not refer to what it seems to have been interpreted as, perhaps a historical allusion to the days when they sent runners for communications. Instead it means the ability to bring reinforcements and supplies forward to a fighting front/unit.

Yeah, I meant 50 other things too when my argument has been slain to death and mutilated beyond recognition.

It's because I'm so military.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
The distraction was attacking the node. You're continually making the assumption that this wasn't the only thing the Shivan was interested in. If the Shivans would have followed the Colossus had it jumped out somewhere other than either of the two nodes then jumping out would have continued the distraction.

So in other words you are the one saying the Colossus made the wrong choice.
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
No, the distraction was luring the Shivan armada to that position. Like I said, facts over guesswork.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
LURING..

Which means you have to have something the other wants..why else would he follow you?
There's got to be a reason why the Collie was in that specific position in the system.
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Offline AlphaOne

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Amm all said and done who wants an other class of superdestroyer's Or Collie class jug's??? This time i hope THE GTVA will consider putting some real weaponry on the blasted thing's . No more slashers NO MORE SLASHERS. (Even if they look kinda cool)
Die shivan die!!
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Wow, I can't follow what's going on at all any more.  :p Anyone want to clarify the various arguments and who's presenting them?

 

Offline Mika

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Quote
This community is unfortunately full of armchair tacticians who claim that they would have known what to do in any given situation and how it was a better choice that whatever Command or Bosch or whoever did.

Should I take this as a stab to my direction?

The funny thing is that now I cannot comment anything in this thread without being labelled as "armchair tactician", which on the other hand is quite hilarious, considering the service record.

Mika
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Offline karajorma

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
Actually I was referring to those people who'll spend 3 or 4 pages worth of discussion coming up with and refining the ultimate method of getting a certain ship to win a battle, stacking every single assumption in favour of their idea, assuming that the enemy will act in exactly the way that they predicted (and couldn't be expected to possibly not do so) and then regard the captain of the vessel as an idiot for not seeing it in the five seconds that elapsed between Command giving them an order and them choosing to act on what they thought was the best course of action.

Sci-fi geekdom is generally full of these sort of people. And usually they're idiots.

Feel free to decide whether that definition includes you or not. :p

« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 06:36:50 pm by karajorma »
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Offline Snail

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Re: The Great Failure: the GTVA supercapital
:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

I wash my hands of you...you're hopeless. :sigh:

The

Colossus

Was

Designed

To

Stop

Any

Shivan

Assault

Force.


Which

It

Failed

At.


Despite the GTVA not knowing the power of the Sathanes, the Colossus' job was to stop the Shivans, period. "The squirtgun was designed to repulse an assault force that was as powerful as the Lucifer's attack" is valid, but only to a certain extent. The Colossus was supposed to be able to defeat any Shivan assault force. It is a partial failure because it didn't defeat the Shivans. The size of the assault force is irrelevant. The fact that it was not able to defeat the Shivans is the point.

IMO, the Colossus was a 90% success. You can't say it was a complete success because it failed at its job.