[AlphaOne]

You tell me about the laws of phisics ??? dude you have bombs that can dish out multiple gigatons of dammage . Those very same bombs should not produce any F*****G blast wave you blundering COMMON SENCE man. SPACE HAS NO GASSES FROM WHICH TO RESULT A DAMMNED BLAST WAVE.

most of tech in FS2 does not hold up to the laws of phisics .

    So . . . are you arguing for or against Magic Pixie power?
    Because you seem to be arguing for both sides.




PS - Btw, a beam cannon is like (or is) a LASER. (the LA is "Light Amplification") Which is pretty much like a flashlight which has a lightbulb inside, so . . . it's a good comparison.

     Thanks for coming out.

Hes joking right? Someone tell me hes actualy joking......

So by what feat of magic pixie did you actualy come to the conclusion that beam cannons are actualy Lasers.No this ia hve to hear since most of what we seen in game sugests that is not something as simple as lasers. No please give me the cannon for such statements . an im not even gonna go into disecting your comparison.


Also the point about the bombs was that in the FS universe.....ahh i give up now hes just acting stupid. He is acting isnt he?? Noone can be that one tracked and stubborn about things that make sence only to him. Right?

[blowfish]

Your both acting stupid and stubborn.  You both have some valid points and also some bullsh*t.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Beam cannons are not lasers.  This has been discussed more times than an0n has posted (well, not really). 

    Regardless. Beam cannons still require energy and the laws of energy transfer still apply. That is, you put in some power, and you get out less power. The other energy turns into something else (ie heat) that you don't want:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/physics/energy/energy_transfer_and_efficiencyrev4.shtml

     to quote: "Note that the efficiency of a device will always be less than 100%."
     Thus, if you put in 100 energy, you will never get 100 energy in the form you want. It will be something less than that. And you certainly won't put in 100 energy and get 250 energy or something silly like that.  (or, 20% more energy for a gun doesn't give 240% more damage).
      I know you didn't say anything like that blowfish, but just stating it for the mases.


AlphaOne said:

So by what feat of magic pixie did you actualy come to the conclusion that beam cannons are actualy Lasers.No this ia hve to hear since most of what we seen in game sugests that is not something as simple as lasers. No please give me the cannon for such statements . an im not even gonna go into disecting your comparison.

    Whatever, they're not lasers. I don't really care what they are. They're still devices that utilize energy and as such they have less than 100% efficiency like everything else.

[blowfish]

But the VSlash could still be more efficient than the TerSlash.  But we know nothing for sure.  All the Canon evidence we have is that the Deimos mounts 4 slash beams, and the Sobek mounts 2, more powerful, slash beams.  We also know that Vasudan reactors are typically better than Terran reactors, though that doesn't really help us at all.

[Akalabeth Angel]

But the VSlash could still be more efficient than the TerSlash.  But we know nothing for sure.  All the Canon evidence we have is that the Deimos mounts 4 slash beams, and the Sobek mounts 2, more powerful, slash beams.  We also know that Vasudan reactors are typically better than Terran reactors, though that doesn't really help us at all.

      Of course it can be more efficient, but it still requires at least 240% (my bad) power as compared to the TerSlash. Not even accounting for losses in efficiency. Let's say the TerSlash has 50% efficiency so you put in 2 power and get out the 1 damage. Even if the VSlash has 60% efficiency to get out 2.4 damage you still need 4 power which is still 200% equivelant to the Terran Slash

[Droid803]

But the VSlash could still be more efficient than the TerSlash.  But we know nothing for sure.  All the Canon evidence we have is that the Deimos mounts 4 slash beams, and the Sobek mounts 2, more powerful, slash beams.  We also know that Vasudan reactors are typically better than Terran reactors, though that doesn't really help us at all.

Exactly. The terslash could only be, say 20% efficient, while the Vslash is 80%. Then, it can do 2 times the damage, requiring only 1/2 the power.

This has gotten so crazy I've forgotten who is arguing what point.

At least it isn't april fools with all teh names siwtched that would have been epic.

[AlphaOne]

Well acording to what you said that should be correct actualy acording to todays phisics laws. But then again the actian is placed more then 200 years into the future.

Who sais they dont have the tech to obtain more power output that is more power directed in the form of heat or whatever at the enemy than the power they input into the actual weapon? Rmember these guis actualy go around in 6 km long vessels from one solar sistem to the other in just a few minutes.

The point was that you can not compare everithing to todays standarsds in tech phisics etc. Some things can be compared but some of them cant. Beam cannons are one such a device. The other would realtime comunication between you who are out beyond GTVA space and the GTVA . See something else that should be imposible but we just like to asume they have some sort of tiny device that enables them to do so. Cuz the power req's for such a device would have to be huge .

[Akalabeth Angel]

Well acording to what you said that should be correct actualy acording to todays phisics laws. But then again the actian is placed more then 200 years into the future.

      So you're saying in 200 years the Laws of Physics are going to change? The same laws of physics which have been in place the last 13.73 Billion years?
      Ohhhhhh . . . kay.

See something else that should be imposible but we just like to asume they have some sort of tiny device that enables them to do so.

       By tiny devices you mean magical pixies right?

[Mars]

But the VSlash could still be more efficient than the TerSlash.  But we know nothing for sure.  All the Canon evidence we have is that the Deimos mounts 4 slash beams, and the Sobek mounts 2, more powerful, slash beams.  We also know that Vasudan reactors are typically better than Terran reactors, though that doesn't really help us at all.

We actually don't know that Vasudan reactors are better than Terran reactors: All we know is that the Deimos has a very good reactor that is Vasudan.

...their Vasudan-designed reactor core provides more energy per ton than any other allied ship class.

i.e. it's better than any other ship reactor in use by Terrans OR Vasudans.

     Of course it can be more efficient, but it still requires at least 240% (my bad) power as compared to the TerSlash. Not even accounting for losses in efficiency. Let's say the TerSlash has 50% efficiency so you put in 2 power and get out the 1 damage. Even if the VSlash has 60% efficiency to get out 2.4 damage you still need 4 power which is still 200% equivelant to the Terran Slash

Where the hell are you getting those numbers. There are more factors to consider than we even know. Maybe the Deimos uses a considerable amount of power for its anti-fighter screen... WE DON'T KNOW

[blowfish]

We actually don't know that Vasudan reactors are better than Terran reactors: All we know is that the Deimos has a very good reactor that is Vasudan.

You're right, we don't.  But it seems to be implied.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Where the hell are you getting those numbers. There are more factors to consider than we even know. Maybe the Deimos uses a considerable amount of power for its anti-fighter screen... WE DON'T KNOW

       I'm getting the hell those numbers from my head, to serve as a basic example.
       The AAAf doesn't factor into it, I'm talking about VSlash vs TSlash.
       And who knows maybe the AAAf does use a lot of power, and maybe if someone removed an AAAf the amount of free power would be enough for the VSlash. All I'm saying is that the VSlash needs more power than the TerSlash and is very likely larger in size.

[Droid803]

The size of the turret looks the same to me...
Actually the TerSlash on a Deimos is much smaller than the TerSlash on the (non HTL) Orion, and much much smaller than the TerSlash on the HTL Hecate.

And, you can assume its going to use more power, but there's no real way of knowing.

[AlphaOne]

Well acording to what you said that should be correct actualy acording to todays phisics laws. But then again the actian is placed more then 200 years into the future.

      So you're saying in 200 years the Laws of Physics are going to change? The same laws of physics which have been in place the last 13.73 Billion years?
      Ohhhhhh . . . kay.

See something else that should be imposible but we just like to asume they have some sort of tiny device that enables them to do so.

       By tiny devices you mean magical pixies right?[=/b]

I give up. I actualy gave him proof of some of the things that dont make sence in FS2 in order to prove a point and that is that FS doesnt actualy go by the laws of phisics. then he bashes me with magical pixies.

Im not sayng the rules have to change im just sayng that perhaps they found out how to bend the rules or even ignore the rules of phisics through technological means. If you cant get that through your thinck head then you really should not be playng FS or even attempt to have a constructive arguement/debate over such a game.

[blowfish]

The size of the turret means nothing.

Let me just say this, because no one seems to notice.   wasn't thinking about these things when they designed the ships, they were just trying to make cool designs that were balanced gameplay wise.  So anything we have to say about efficiency or size cannot possibly be right, because it's 's universe.

EDIT: Oh, and magical pixie dust™ = the power behind everything in the freespace universe.  Its the only logical explanation

[Droid803]

The size of the turret means nothing.

It does. It means how easy it is to hit and destroy.
The tiny size of the SReds on the Rakshasa count towards the ships pros, while the huge turrets on the Hecate count against it.
The HTL Orion is actually tougher than the non HTL one, since the size of the beam cannons decrease dramatically. I might take this up with the FSUP people, since the Orion's front turret also looks wrong.

[blowfish]

The size of the turret means nothing.

It does. It means how easy it is to hit and destroy.

Well, besides that

[Akalabeth Angel]

I give up. I actualy gave him proof of some of the things that dont make sence in FS2 in order to prove a point and that is that FS doesnt actualy go by the laws of phisics. then he bashes me with magical pixies.

      There's a difference between bashing you and bashing your opinion.
      I don't think your a moron, I just disagree with your opinion.

Im not sayng the rules have to change im just sayng that perhaps they found out how to bend the rules or even ignore the rules of phisics through technological means. If you cant get that through your thinck head then you really should not be playng FS or even attempt to have a constructive arguement/debate over such a game.

       You can't ignore the laws of the physics. They're called the laws of physics for a reason, if you could bend or ignore them they'd be called the guidelines of physics.

       And to answer your question, no, I don't believe that a multigigaton bomb makes some pissy little shockwave. Nor do I believe that Tempests have anything other than a conventional yield (nor do I believe the BS numbers that the trekkies throw out). But one thing you should know is that space isn't a vacuum, it's just a medium where the particles are really spread far apart. And nukes still work in space, they just do less damage. Though they'd likely rely on their other properties to do damage rather than some large shockwave.

       If you're at all curious about how space combat would really be, here's a very interesting page on just that topic: http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/

[AlphaOne]

But come on dude youre not listening to what i say. I never said the laws of phisics shange or that they can be ignored at least not today with current tech means. But PERHAPS they have the tech that alows them real time comunication ever the distance of several thousand of lightyears.

A few decades back scientists actualy believed that gooing faster then the speed of sound is against the laws of phisics and that you would dies some horrible death in dooing so. dont knwo where i heard that i do know it was some stupid science show on Discovery channel.

[Akalabeth Angel]

The size of the turret means nothing.

Let me just say this, because no one seems to notice.  wasn't thinking about these things when they designed the ships, they were just trying to make cool designs that were balanced gameplay wise.  So anything we have to say about efficiency or size cannot possibly be right, because it's 's universe.

       Actually it can be right, because as much as Voltion's universe is different as our own it's still based heavily upon our own and as such has to follow some general rules in order to be believable. It's called suspension of disbelief, and once a certain line is crossed the player doesn't believe and gets ticked off or whatever. Volition doesn't want to tick off their players, they want them to enjoy the game and enjoy the universe.

   
        As an example, this is exactly what's happened to AlphaOne with regards to the Lilith. A ship of that size with a weapon of that power has broken his suspension of disbelief, and now he disbelieves it. More/less: "yeah, I believe this and this and this, but that cruiser is just bull****". There's nothing wrong with that, everyone has their own suspension of disbelief a little different. I mark it up to the Shivans being very very old and the Lilith being a symbol of their technological edge. But anyway, that's a topic for another thread.

        And that isn't meant as a personal insult to AlphaOne, it's just a good example of what I'm talking about.

[blowfish]

And that isn't meant as a personal insult to AlphaOne, it's just a good example of what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately it will probably be taken that way