Poll

What sort of ending do you think the GTVA Colossus should have?

Getting beamed to death by the SJ Sathanas while standing still? (Volition canon)
8 (8.9%)
Getting beamed to death by the SJ Sathanas while still attacking it and inflicting some damage?
42 (46.7%)
Getting beamed by the SJ Sathanas but surviving, but still getting scrapped because it took too much damage?
4 (4.4%)
Getting beamed by the SJ Sathanas and surviving, but getting destroyed by the Capella supernova?
12 (13.3%)
Getting beamed by the SJ Sathanas and surviving, as well as assisting in Apocalypse and successfully making the jump to Vega before the supernova?
13 (14.4%)
Getting beamed by the SJ Sathanas and surviving, but getting bombed to death by bombers?
1 (1.1%)
Getting beamed by the SJ Sathanas and surviving, but experiencing death from above in the form of a Shivan warship's beams (including another Sathanas?
5 (5.6%)
Something else?
5 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 89

Author Topic: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...  (Read 22094 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Hard to tell. I don't recall them acting much differently in FS2
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Offline Mongoose

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
I can't remember; in FS1 the Shivans were more interested in capturing subspace jump nodes instead of complete dominance of a system?
According to the command briefings, the Shivans didn't seem to take any interest in controlling planets in a system (which makes me wonder if some of the colonies were able to ride out the invasion by just lying low and not venturing into space).  Instead, they focused on controlling jump points and pushing the GTA/PVN back from them.  This is a significant piece of evidence for people's theories that the Shivans are a space-based race who has some vested interest in controlling subspace.

 
Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
According to the command briefings, the Shivans didn't seem to take any interest in controlling planets in a system (which makes me wonder if some of the colonies were able to ride out the invasion by just lying low and not venturing into space).  Instead, they focused on controlling jump points and pushing the GTA/PVN back from them.  This is a significant piece of evidence for people's theories that the Shivans are a space-based race who has some vested interest in controlling subspace.

       Well, makes sense though. Destroy everything in space, and control the subspace node to keep anything from attacking you from the rear. If the main objective is to "cut off" the head (ie Vasuda, Terra), why waste time on the small fries. You can mop 'em later.

       I think their only interest in controlling subspace is security of their fleet from rear attack myself. And if they are for example a warrior race, comparable to the Zentraedi, they wouldn't need any planetary resources. Since their only goal is to take out the Terrans and Vasudans.

 
Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Yeah. In one of the Ancient monologues in FS1 it's said that Shivans aren't a terrestrial species. It seems that controlling the jump points is one of their main objectives in defeating their enemies.

 

Offline eliex

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Yeah. In one of the Ancient monologues in FS1 it's said that Shivans aren't a terrestrial species. It seems that controlling the jump points is one of their main objectives in defeating their enemies.

So that's why some people think that Shivans are actually native to subspace itself.

Yeah. In one of the Ancient monologues in FS1 it's said that Shivans aren't a terrestrial species. It seems that controlling the jump points is one of their main objectives in defeating their enemies.

They would always have to maintain a garrison in the a system because jump nodes always collapse and open. What a pity . . .  :P

 
Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Yeah. In one of the Ancient monologues in FS1 it's said that Shivans aren't a terrestrial species. It seems that controlling the jump points is one of their main objectives in defeating their enemies.

So that's why some people think that Shivans are actually native to subspace itself.

     That's a bit of a leap in my opinion.
     Controlling a node is like fortifying a bridge. Strategically it just makes sense.

 

Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Er, back to the original topic...

I don't actually mind how the Colossus was destroyed. I am kind of confused as to why a diversion was actually necessary, given that the Shivans had a ridiculous number of ships at their disposal, and indeed probably would not have bothered dispatching any more ships to the Bastion had the Colossus not tried to hold their attention. Their Finest Hour felt like a callous swatting of a mildly annoying fly. A Sathanas was diverted from the Capella project, whatever it may have been, and dealt with the threat immediately, decisively, and easily. It was a slap in the face of allied pride. The Colossus, shining symbol of peace and cooperation, and of Terran-Vasudan might, was helpless in the face of the overwhelming Shivans. The Colossus represented the new feelings of hope that were beginning to surface after the devastation of the Great War. The Shivans utterly crushed it.

What would have made it actually heroic? Fixing the Colossus's engines, and actually giving it a choice in the matter might have been nice.
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Offline Yogert

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Even if it didn't affect the Bastion, bringing even one Sathanas away from the Capella star may have bought enough time for all those refugees in the last mission to make it to the node. Had the Colossus not made that distraction the last mission could very well not have taken place.
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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Even if it didn't affect the Bastion, bringing even one Sathanas away from the Capella star may have bought enough time for all those refugees in the last mission to make it to the node. Had the Colossus not made that distraction the last mission could very well not have taken place.

      That's a good point.
      Actually I've often heard the idea that, some Sathanases chose to stay behind so that others could leave but I don't think that's true. People have called the Sathanas at times a weapon to destroy stars, while the Lucifer is the planetary bombardment one. But I don't think that's true. When the nova goes off, those four Sathanas in frame don't intentionally stay behind. They're not still doing their green warp the sun thing. I think they're there because of one or two reasons:

1. Making the star go supernova was extremely dangerous. And no, not because "duh, yeah supernova bad" but because the operation itself was incredibly tasking on even the Sathanas and there was no guarentee it wouldn't shut down completely.

2. This fault may be in part due to the extreme age of the vessels, assuming that the Sathanas has been around for 1000s of years.

      From the cutscene we see what, 10-11 Juggs? Of those, 3-4 stay behind. Let's assuming 80 Juggernauts, 7 out of 10 make it out. That's a guesstimate 24 Juggernauts that perished in the Super Nova. Not to mention all the non-Jugg forces in system.
 
      Assuming some sort of special jump, that was a one way ticket to someplace REALLY important. I think it's safe to assume that the Shivans would wait for most if not all of the Juggernauts to be assembled before they tried to jump out. So diverting that Juggernaut to waste the Colossus probably did buy all the refugees and maybe even the Bastion a lot of time. But they bought time not from the shivans but from the shivan created supernova.

      And the colossus had what, 30000 people? Lets for the sake of argument, assume that an equal number of Shivans are onboard a juggernaut. 24 Juggernauts gone means 720,000 Shivans died in Capella. Makes the GTVA losses seem like a drop in the bucket doesnt it?

EDIT - and as a point of interest, I don't think the final shot in that cutscene of a Deimos and a Moloch overlapping before their death was an accident. Bosch made some waves that's for sure. But that's another discussion.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2008, 10:26:12 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Well, it's been my opinion that the supernova was unintended, because:
a) losing that sort of force is something even the Shivans would probably prefer to avoid (baseless conjecture)

b) because they are depicted as masters of subspace and subspace technology, and given point a), that any sort of technology they possess would likely have been optimised and perfected to avoid Shivan casualties (a bit less conjecture)

c) given Petrarch's epilogue it is a high chance the Shivans were actually making a supernode (Petrarch at that point plays the role of narrator, not the role of a limited-view character, and people never lie in epilogues)

d) and lastly because a possible reason for a supernova accident can be provided. Nobody can forget that the GTVA managed to destroy one Sathanas juggernaut, which had been the first on-scene. It is my theory that without this last piece of the puzzle, the subspace ripples failed to work as intended, and created the supernova instead. (ha ha completely baseless)
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Offline eliex

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...


      From the cutscene we see what, 10-11 Juggs? Of those, 3-4 stay behind. Let's assuming 80 Juggernauts, 7 out of 10 make it out. That's a guesstimate 24 Juggernauts that perished in the Super Nova. Not to mention all the non-Jugg forces in system.

      And the colossus had what, 30000 people? Lets for the sake of argument, assume that an equal number of Shivans are onboard a juggernaut. 24 Juggernauts gone means 720,000 Shivans died in Capella. Makes the GTVA losses seem like a drop in the bucket doesnt it?

Unless the Shivans have an unbelievably high population, deaths of 720 000 Shivans would support the theory that the juggernauts were pathing a way to some unknown destination. The majority of the entire Shivan population could have been on those juggernauts.


 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
This is reminding me of the Hypergates in Freelancer, where the creators of the Nomads...I forgot how to spell their name...created a network of hypergates that connects the far ends of the universe via one incredibly fast method of travel.

Perhaps it's worth noting that, when the Shivan juggernauts jump out, the warp effect depicts a subspace jump, not a Knossos jump or any other kind of jump.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Er, back to the original topic...

I don't actually mind how the Colossus was destroyed. I am kind of confused as to why a diversion was actually necessary, given that the Shivans had a ridiculous number of ships at their disposal, and indeed probably would not have bothered dispatching any more ships to the Bastion had the Colossus not tried to hold their attention. Their Finest Hour felt like a callous swatting of a mildly annoying fly. A Sathanas was diverted from the Capella project, whatever it may have been, and dealt with the threat immediately, decisively, and easily. It was a slap in the face of allied pride. The Colossus, shining symbol of peace and cooperation, and of Terran-Vasudan might, was helpless in the face of the overwhelming Shivans. The Colossus represented the new feelings of hope that were beginning to surface after the devastation of the Great War. The Shivans utterly crushed it.

What would have made it actually heroic? Fixing the Colossus's engines, and actually giving it a choice in the matter might have been nice.

Based on the indication by the escort, the Bastion hadn't been facing anything more terrifying than bombers. Pack in, say, a Lilith or two between the Bastion and the node, and you've got a recipe for mission failure.

But the Shivans didn't send a Lilith, or even a Moloch, and instead sent waves of bombers to be massacred by the enemy.

Again, a Ravana could've made short work of the refugee convoy, or even a Lilith with sufficient fighter screen if it started targeting civilian ships.

The lack of any heavy Shivan capital ships makes it seem very likely that the Colossus did draw their attention and flush out all the largest warships in the system, besides the Sathanas fleet. Though I do agree that it's possible that the Shivans never intended to put up a fight in the first place and simply intended to defend their juggernauts.

But nobody would have had any way of knowing that. Sending the Colossus in to guard the Shivans' node back to their home systems was designed to provoke a response. An inferior species using the ship that took down their emasculated juggernaut to threaten their home systems? It's the intergalactic equivalent of standing in front of the Shivans, flipping them off, fondling their girlfriend, and going "Nanner nanner nanner!"
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Perhpas the Shivans just wanted to avenge the destruction of SJ Sathanas 01 by doing the same to the GTVA Colossus. Both warships were destroyed in similar circumstances.

The Sathanas had its beam cannons destroyed by fighters before the Colossus killed it, while the Colossus was tenderised by a Ravana before getting beamed to death by another Sathanas from out of its firing range.
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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Again, a Ravana could've made short work of the refugee convoy, or even a Lilith with sufficient fighter screen if it started targeting civilian ships.

The lack of any heavy Shivan capital ships makes it seem very likely that the Colossus did draw their attention and flush out all the largest warships in the system, besides the Sathanas fleet. Though I do agree that it's possible that the Shivans never intended to put up a fight in the first place and simply intended to defend their juggernauts.

       It would be cool if the Ravana launched some bombers, like Nephilims for example, named Cancer wing. Then rather than attack they just jump out immediately and then the next mission, Alpha 1 gets there and there's a few bombers from "Cancer" wing left that the escort's still fending off. Things like that would've been cool. Though the time gap might've been too large.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
The Ravana could deploy all its fighter and bomber wings... :drevil:
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
The Ravana could deploy all its fighter and bomber wings... :drevil:

So could the Colossuss  :drevil:
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Offline eliex

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
The Sathanas had its beam cannons destroyed by fighters before the Colossus killed it, while the Colossus was tenderised by a Ravana before getting beamed to death by another Sathanas from out of its firing range.

The trick using the Ravana to "weaken" the Colossus was utter stupidity. It's was like telling the Phoenicia to remain in front of the jump node with the Sathanas beaming at it.

 

Offline S-99

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Maybe it would have fit pretty good just having the colossus jump out before getting destroyed. You know, have the colossus jump out with it's tail between it's legs. The death of the colossus was plenty humiliating which is why i don't really see it had to die. The colossus fighting the first sathanas was ok, it was a coordinated effort to pull off which wouldn't have gone anywhere without wings of fighters to do the declawing of the sathanas. Then the gtva discovers at least 80 sathanases. It ate a ravana for lunch, then we watched it barely scratch a sathanas while the colossus gets ****ed in the ass. Just have the damn thing jump out when it gets a chance with it's tail between it's legs.

It'll go running home crying to mommy (gtva), and mommy won't be able to do a thing about it.
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Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
The Sathanas had its beam cannons destroyed by fighters before the Colossus killed it, while the Colossus was tenderised by a Ravana before getting beamed to death by another Sathanas from out of its firing range.

The trick using the Ravana to "weaken" the Colossus was utter stupidity. It's was like telling the Phoenicia to remain in front of the jump node with the Sathanas beaming at it.
Yeah, it felt more like simple escalation. The convoy's getting pounded, so you send in a cruiser. The cruiser's destroyed, so you tell the Ravana to investigate. The Ravana gets toasted, and you divert a Sathanas from the node and settle things once and for all.

Anyways, the Bastion would probably look like a fleeing ship. Not important enough to send more than bombers after. Maybe it's just me, but I got the feeling that the Shivans had warships to spare in Capella. If they considered the Bastion a threat they would have sent something else after it. The Colossus was blockading a node, so it had to go. But the Bastion was running away.

Now that I think about it, the fact we see the same Ravana twice makes this kind of unlikely. Maybe they only had an excess of juggernauts?
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