Poll

What sort of ending do you think the GTVA Colossus should have?

Getting beamed to death by the SJ Sathanas while standing still? (Volition canon)
8 (8.9%)
Getting beamed to death by the SJ Sathanas while still attacking it and inflicting some damage?
42 (46.7%)
Getting beamed by the SJ Sathanas but surviving, but still getting scrapped because it took too much damage?
4 (4.4%)
Getting beamed by the SJ Sathanas and surviving, but getting destroyed by the Capella supernova?
12 (13.3%)
Getting beamed by the SJ Sathanas and surviving, as well as assisting in Apocalypse and successfully making the jump to Vega before the supernova?
13 (14.4%)
Getting beamed by the SJ Sathanas and surviving, but getting bombed to death by bombers?
1 (1.1%)
Getting beamed by the SJ Sathanas and surviving, but experiencing death from above in the form of a Shivan warship's beams (including another Sathanas?
5 (5.6%)
Something else?
5 (5.6%)

Total Members Voted: 89

Author Topic: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...  (Read 21896 times)

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Offline TrashMan

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
I agree that the Collie is the best ship for the job of drawing the shivan attention, but it's been doing that fine for 15 minutes. Once the Sath came in the jig was up. There was no sense in staying there.
30 seconds of attention won't make a difference anyway. The Colossus dies for NOTHING. Now, if it actually engaged and kept the Sath busy for several minutes (enough for the Bastion to do it's job), THEN I would say it did a good job.
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Offline ShadowGorrath

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Here's a scenario if the Colossus listened to Command:

Colossus makes a random jump, Shivans don't follow it, but instead go after the next big thing- Bastion running to nuke the node, or the escapees running out of Capella through the Vega node. Sathanas jumps in, pulverises the Bastion or the escapees and still nukes the star. Everyone dies, no other ship to nuke the nodes, before they can do that, the nebula in FS cools down enough for the Shivans to pass and invade the GTVA.

Or, the Colossus jumps out to the Vega node, or near the Bastion. Sathanas follows and nukes both the Colossus and the fleet. Result's the same as above.

Normally, the Shivans nuke the Colossus and considers that the main objective was acomplished, and the Sath returns to the campfire ( Capella sun ).

 

Offline TrashMan

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Or (and far more plausible) the Sath returns to the others around the sun.

Big ships need time to charge their jump drive, so the Sath can't be jumping around everywhere like crazy. Indeed, it has been mentioned that the Sathanas fleet has NOT engaged any warships. Why would they start now? It's not like they know what the GTVA is planning and what the Bastion is carrying.

So, exactly what would the shivans throw at the Bastion that they haven't thrown already? And more importantly, WHY?

The only thing capable of destroying the Bastion in those 30 seconds the Collie bought is the Sath. It could have gone after the bastion once it gutted the Collie, but it didn't. So what makes you think it would have gone there is the Collie escaped? Wouldn't the shivans consider the Collie running heaviyl damaged a victory too?
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Big ships need time to charge their jump drive, so the Sath can't be jumping around everywhere like crazy. Indeed, it has been mentioned that the Sathanas fleet has NOT engaged any warships. Why would they start now? It's not like they know what the GTVA is planning and what the Bastion is carrying.

The only thing capable of destroying the Bastion in those 30 seconds the Collie bought is the Sath. It could have gone after the bastion once it gutted the Collie, but it didn't. So what makes you think it would have gone there is the Collie escaped? Wouldn't the shivans consider the Collie running heaviyl damaged a victory too?
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Offline Droid803

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Bosch doesn't know that they're trying to collapse the nodes...
(´・ω・`)
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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Bosch doesn't know that they're trying to collapse the nodes...

       If he's in a position of authority and has the knowledge of most of their battles he could probably figure it out. It's safe to assume that the Shivan fighters in . . . . Lion at the Gate or whatever that thing's called would've radioed back that there were 'huge ass bombs' near the portal. The shivans could also figure it out by the lack of a Knossos when the Sathanas exited on the other side.

       I don't think Bosch would be "Locutus" or anything like that, but he may be a bit like Baltar from either the old or new series and has the potential to advise the shivans what the GTVA's course of action might be. Assuming that the Shivans give a crap in the first place. Which is extremely unlikely.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
The Shivans might, since they decided to get a Sathanas to destroy the Colossus quickly, instead of wearing it down with many destroyers. The destruction of Sathanas 01 probably showed them that the Alliance has the technology required to exploit the weaknesses in their juggernaut.

Bosch may have known that the GTVA were constructing Meson Bombs in Hideki long before A Flaming Sword. Only people with a lot of authority can construct a mobile and powerful ship and create an asteroid around it.
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Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
This is technically not a necro. I...I just don't want this topic to die.


I think this is one of the great unanswered questions of the FreeSpace saga. Perhaps we could make a summary of what's been decided?


Anyway, this line of thought involves a lot of speculation as to Bosch's fate. We're not even sure ETAK was a success, or exactly how flexible it was. We know it was successful enough for Bosch to be confident enough to attempt contact, but the war still raged. Was Bosch's defection/surrender/capture a turning point in the war? It's been too long for me to recall. Did the ETAK project actually change the course of the Second Shivan Incursion?
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Offline Droid803

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
And what does that have to do with the fate of the GTVA Colossus?

As for ETAK, nothing has been decided. You may believe what you wish. Its better that way.
ETAK probably didn't change the course of the SSI, though. The first Sathanas already pushed into Capella before the GTVA acquired ETAK, and it doesn't seem that the GTVA attempted to communicate with the Shivans in any shape or form.
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Agent_Koopa

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Well, Mr. Exeunt mentioned up there that the Shivans may have extracted info about the Bastion from Bosch, if I understand his cryptic hints correctly. In order for this to work,

a)Bosch would have had to know about GTVA plans
b)Bosch would have had to be able to speak freely with the Shivans, meaning a perfect version of ETAK.


...and I completely forgot the GTVA managed to extract the ETAK specifications. Constructing the device and figuring out how to work it would probably have taken more time than they had anyway.




EDIT: :bump: (apparently this makes things better)
« Last Edit: October 14, 2008, 09:54:19 pm by Agent_Koopa »
Interestingly enough, this signature is none of the following:
A witty remark on whatever sad state of affairs the world may or may not be in
A series of localized forum in-jokes
A clever and self-referential comment on the nature of signatures themselves.

Hobo Queens are Crowned, but Hobo Kings are Found.

 

Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
This is technically not a necro.

If it's not a necro, it's a bump, and both of them are the same.

I won't use :necro: on you, Koopa, but next time, please use the :bump: smiley if you want to post on a non-stickied topic that hasn't received new posts for a month.

Well, Mr. Exeunt mentioned up there that the Shivans may have extracted info about the Bastion from Bosch, if I understand his cryptic hints correctly.

You did, I'll give you that. :nod:

And call me AE if it's easier on your fingers. ;)

Bosch might also have told them about the full specifications of the GTVA Colossus so that they could destroy it without having to take any damage. Note that, by default, the Colossus' beams have a severe range disadvantage over the Sathanas.

The only reason why the Colossus could lash out at the Sathanas in High Noon was because all its beams were replaced with the long-range LRBGreen, which has a 400m advantage over the BFReds on the Sathanas' arms. In Their Finest Hour, however, the Colossus was using its normal loadout, so it could not attack the Sathanas that destroyed it.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Bosch himself mentions that the contact with the shivans was "rudimentary and crude".
It doesn't look like ETAK was advanced enough to allow easy communication where things can be easily explained.

Evne if he had data on the Colossuss (doubtfull) how would he explain them to the shivans? I doubt their electronics or data storage systems are compatabile, or that they could make heads or tails out of the gibberish.
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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Bosch himself mentions that the contact with the shivans was "rudimentary and crude".
It doesn't look like ETAK was advanced enough to allow easy communication where things can be easily explained.

     Er, no. He says their "first attempts" were rudimentary and crude. Implying that latter communication was at a more sophisticated level.

 

Offline Mobius

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
I think the second option is the most logic one. The battle against Sathanas 17 would have been more epic and desperate had the Colossus tried to fire back...

 

Offline S-99

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Bosch himself mentions that the contact with the shivans was "rudimentary and crude".
It doesn't look like ETAK was advanced enough to allow easy communication where things can be easily explained.
Bosch was referring to the first attempts he actually used etak to try communication with the shivans, it also means that he didn't know their language yet.
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Offline TrashMan

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
If you take the time frame into consideration it's highly unlikely (read: impossible) to decypher the shivan language and fine tune a translator to work without a hitch in just a day or two (which is roughly how much time passed between the Iceni-shivan contact and the abduction of Bosch).

Remember, that all shivan living specimen were terminated, and that shivans are as alien as one can possibly be in everything.
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Offline terran_emperor

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Id say a a mix of option 2, and something else.

The Colossus should have gotten onto a huge beam fight with the sathanas, but then when it's hull gets to about 15% it rams Sathanas 17, taking out both ships.

I also find that it has a certain amount of dramatic irony, considering that the NTD repulse tried to ram the colossus
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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
Actually, even the canon ending of the Colossus is a bit ironic. The Colossus could only take out Sathanas 01 because the Shivan Juggernauts main beams were destroyed. In Their Finest Hour, the Sathanas was only able to destroy the Colossus without taking damage because the GTVA Juggernaut was disabled, and the Shivan Juggernaut was out of the Colossus' beam range, rendering them useless.
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Offline S-99

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
If you take the time frame into consideration it's highly unlikely (read: impossible) to decypher the shivan language and fine tune a translator to work without a hitch in just a day or two (which is roughly how much time passed between the Iceni-shivan contact and the abduction of Bosch).

Remember, that all shivan living specimen were terminated, and that shivans are as alien as one can possibly be in everything.

Bosch was probably mostly going on whatever information he was able to get back from the gti rebellion. And for being able to work out an alliance with the shivans after many crude attempts...back in the gti rebellion, the gti scientists must have been very close to completing a shivan communications device (remember they were very successful at hybridizing shivan and terran technology...in the gti rebellion, the gti rebels were the experts at everything shivan, even so much more than the gtva scientists). After that, whatever bosch was doing before the ntf rebellion, and during the ntf rebellion; i bet his desire for communicating with the shivans existed long before the ntf rebellion.

There isn't even much of a given time table that the A1 follows in the game. He was fighting at the end of the 14 months of the ntf rebellion. The time table can be speculative, there probably is a way to follow it. They do throw out years, dates, and times sometimes in the game.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2008, 01:49:26 am by S-99 »
Every pilot's goal is to rise up in the ranks and go beyond their purpose to a place of command on a very big ship. Like the colossus; to baseball bat everyone.

SMBFD

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Offline Androgeos Exeunt

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Re: About the End of the GTVA Colossus...
All that's known about the GTI's research into Shivans is that they managed to incorporate Shivan weaponry into Terran ships, which is probably much simpler than creating a device capable of communicating with the Shivans. Keep in mind that Arjuna 1 was retrofitted for Terran use in just a matter of days, even though the reverse-engineering of the SF Dragon was very rudimentary at best.

In 2367, Triton Dynamics only took a few months to flawlessly reverse-engineer four SF Maras for Terran use.

Despite this, they've never appeared to be able to create a Shivan communication device. Either that, or maybe Command didn't want to make one, or dare not make one. This must either mean those, or that communicating with the Shivans is much, much harder to do than reverse-engineer their technology.
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