[Nuclear1]

Israel bombs Gaza and kills dozens of Palestinians. Then they blockade Gaza and starve Palestinians to death. Hundreds of Palestinians die between the bombing and blockade.

But random Hamas or non-Hamas militants fire rockets which rarely ever do any real damage or cost lives and that justifies killing over a thousand people?

So how many Arab lives are worth one Israeli life? Two hundred? A thousand?

Israel more than has the right to defend itself but there is such a thing as going far too over the top. IDF soldiers committed war crimes. The IAF used white phosphorous for no other purpose to inflict pain and suffering. Israel ravaged Gaza's infrastructure and used force far more excessive than necessary or humane. If you're still trying to justify this, you need to check your priorities, because you are either getting your news from a terrible, terrible source (and blaming the EVIL CORRUPT LIBERAL media in the BBC, Guardian, al-Jazeera or al-Arabiya for reporting the facts you don't want to hear) or are racist to the point of valuing Israeli life over Arab life.

[TrashMan]

You forgot option n03. He could be both.

[Scotty]

Sorry but that's bollocks. There is no reason reporters simply couldn't be told that they have to wait a week before broadcasting in order to avoid giving away troop movements.

The Americans had embedded reporters during the attack on Baghdad and all throughout major operations since then in Iraq. The fact that Israel issued a blanket ban instead is more than just suspicious.

They ejected reporters because reporters do nasty things like get themselves killed in war zones.  They also do give away troop movements, and targets, and plans, and all other sorts of things like that.  Besides, what reporting station can you even THINK of that wouldn't leak it earlier just to get a good story.

Ah, I see the problem. You have no conception of how a terrorist group actually works!

Apparently, you also have no conception of how the military branch of a government actually works!

Remember that you could charge anyone leaking with spying.

And who the hell is going to run a story about themselves getting caught leaking troop movements?  Really.

If IDF soldiers are practicly allowed to kill everybody because they are not being watched, how does that save some lives?

Yet again.  Show me a F***ing documented account of IDF soldiers running into an oblivious house and just gunning everyone down.  It doesn't exist!

Well to Splinter too apparently.

Hey!  No need to get nasty here.

IDF soldiers committed war crimes.

Once again.....

The IAF used white phosphorous for no other purpose to inflict pain and suffering.

Look at the pictures they show you of WP being used.  Every single burst seems to be headed in a nice, precise, 45 degree cone of smoke.  That's not how WP burns.  It burns almost instantly, so a high(ish) altitude burst does absolutely nothing.  Here is an actual WP bomb being used in a test.  Here is a picture from the alleged use of WP as a weapon in the Gaza Conflict.  Notice the bursting patterns.  Because of the way WP bursts, the conical detonation is impossible.  Also notice the altitude used.  The higher burst has the effect of the WP burning out on the way to the ground, creating a smoke screen, nothing more.  Any WP used as munitions must be used as close range/low altitude.

If you're still trying to justify this

Justify what?  Excessive force is actually one of the best deterrents, even if a lot of people don't like it.  I get my news from a hell of a lot of sources.  You could call it my job to find out that stuff.  I don't consider them evil or corrupt.  Hopelessly, hopelessly liberal, but that isn't a crime.  I just look at the reporting, the most likely story, look into independent statistics and reports, then correlate to determine any possible errors in reporting.  So far, it seems more likely by far that Gaza is fronting propaganda than Israel is actually actively commiting war crimes.

I am not racist.  I am an equal opportunity offender  .  It doesn't matter what they are, if they are wrong, I say so.  If Israel had been lobbing rockets in to Gaza, I would actually expect the same response from Gaza (under significantly less political flak, too), and agree with their reasoning as well.  Fact of the matter is, however, that Gaza lobbed rockets, and Israel retaliated.

[Nuclear1]

I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself.

Israel's use of force was over the bounds of necessary and humane.  War is violent, and people die, I know, but two or three Israeli lives and a few new holes in Southern Israel do not justify 1500 people dead and blasting an entire region back three millenia. 

Regardless of whether the IDF committed war crimes or not, they still went far too over the top with their response.  Israel has had a recent history of doing that--and too many people have died as a result.  There are other approaches Israel, the other Arab countries, and the Palestinians can take to disarming Hamas and returning stability to the region without spilling any further blood, but Israel has so far not worked its hardest to advance these proposals.  With a new extreme right-wing government about to take power I fear that won't change anytime in the near future.

[Scotty]

I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself.

Neither do I.  ANY war is over the bounds of humane.  It's just about a part of the modern definition!  [nitpick]it was 13-17 Israelis[/nitpick]  I also seriously doubt that it was blasted back to before they had cars, or steel, or firearms   .

they still went far too over the top with their response.

Their response was more than just stopping the rockets.  It was a message to Hamas, or any other government in that region (*ahem* Lebannon) that if they don't stop F*cking with Israel, they are going to deal with some pretty serious consequences.  In effect, a forced re-evaluation of the cost-benefit analysis of attacking Israel.

There are other approaches Israel, the other Arab countries, and the Palestinians can take to disarming Hamas and returning stability to the region without spilling any further blood, but Israel has so far not worked its hardest to advance these proposals.

Yeah, because everyone knows that just EVERY nation down there wants to help Israel  .

[TrashMan]

They ejected reporters because reporters do nasty things like get themselves killed in war zones.  They also do give away troop movements, and targets, and plans, and all other sorts of things like that.  Besides, what reporting station can you even THINK of that wouldn't leak it earlier just to get a good story.

The one that hopes to get any cooperation and dews coverage from you in the future?
You argument is complete bollocks.
Reporters always went where the news is. Into war zones. And sometimes died. It's a risk they take willingly. The army doesn't have to protect them and can restrict their movement if they are so worried about sensitive information.
News agencies had agreements with government and militaries before about postponing some story releases. It worked too.

And who the hell is going to run a story about themselves getting caught leaking troop movements? 

What?

Look at the pictures they show you of WP being used.  Every single burst seems to be headed in a nice, precise, 45 degree cone of smoke.  That's not how WP burns.  It burns almost instantly, so a high(ish) altitude burst does absolutely nothing.  Here is an actual WP bomb being used in a test.  Here is a picture from the alleged use of WP as a weapon in the Gaza Conflict.  Notice the bursting patterns.  Because of the way WP bursts, the conical detonation is impossible.  Also notice the altitude used.  The higher burst has the effect of the WP burning out on the way to the ground, creating a smoke screen, nothing more.  Any WP used as munitions must be used as close range/low altitude.

And naturally there is only one kind of bomb. All bombs look and detonate exactly the same. I assume you're a military weapons expert?

If Israel had been lobbing rockets in to Gaza, I would actually expect the same response from Gaza (under significantly less political flak, too), and agree with their reasoning as well.  Fact of the matter is, however, that Gaza lobbed rockets, and Israel retaliated.

So if a bunch of idiots from your country decide lobbing a few crude rockets into USA is fun, then USA would be fully justified if they stormed your house, killed everyone, trashed the place and wrote grafity and then proceed to pummel your country into the ground, leave people without food and water and a roof over their head and then force the country into economic dependance on itself?
Good to know.
I know a guy from your country that broke my window last Sunday. Let me get my shotgun and I'll get right over to your place.

[Commander Zane]

The U.S. couldn't do that even if they wanted to.
We're Geneva's *****.

[Scotty]

If Israel had been lobbing rockets in to Gaza, I would actually expect the same response from Gaza (under significantly less political flak, too), and agree with their reasoning as well.  Fact of the matter is, however, that Gaza lobbed rockets, and Israel retaliated.

So if a bunch of idiots from your country decide lobbing a few crude rockets into USA is fun, then USA would be fully justified if they stormed your house, killed everyone, trashed the place and wrote grafity and then proceed to pummel your country into the ground, leave people without food and water and a roof over their head and then force the country into economic dependance on itself?
Good to know.
I know a guy from your country that broke my window last Sunday. Let me get my shotgun and I'll get right over to your place.

Wow.  I just mean, wow.  You managed to take all of my arguments about SOMETHING ESLE ENTIRELY and apply it to a matter of who started it.  Thing about this is (even though I live in the U.S., I'll play along) the hypothetical idiots lobbing rockets aren't PART OF THE F*CKING GOVERNMENT!.  Secondly, show me the graffiti they wrote, show me an uninformed house that everyone was killed in, then show me where there is absolutely no food or water in a city of 1.5 million (speaking of Gaza for this one).  Finally, economic dependence on oneself implies independence of anyone else, meaning a good thing.

For almost a week and a half before the actual troops went in, leaflets, fliers, and all sorts of warnings to civilians were dropped by air.  Then, as I believe someone already pointed out in this thread, they actually called cell phones to warn people before actually moving in.  I highly, fully, and completely doubt that there is no food or water in Gaza.  You seem to have misunderstood the infrastructure that Israel is destroying is the infrastructure that the government has been using to launch rockets.

I know a guy from your country that broke my window last Sunday. Let me get my shotgun and I'll get right over to your place.

Go ahead, there's a great place south of here to go shooting.  We can go find him instead of mining the road to my house.

EDIT:  fixed some quote issues

[SpardaSon21]

The rockets aren't just an attack on Israel's people or structures.  They're also direct attacks on Israel's sovereignty as a nation.

[Nuclear1]

Yeah, because a rag-tag terrorist group composed of starving and sick people poses such a significant threat to Israel.

Nation whose military power is only surpassed by the United States and has nukes...versus a blockaded overcrowded under-supplied and neglected strip of land. Yep!  Israel's sure to fall now.

[Scotty]

An attack doesn't have to have a hope of winning to still be an attack.

[TrashMan]

Wow.  I just mean, wow.  You managed to take all of my arguments about SOMETHING ESLE ENTIRELY and apply it to a matter of who started it.

It's not a matter of who started it. It's a matter of you claiming that side A has the right to respond in ANY way and with ANY means to whatever side B (alegedly) has done. 

Thing about this is (even though I live in the U.S., I'll play along) the hypothetical idiots lobbing rockets aren't PART OF THE F*CKING GOVERNMENT!.

Prove it. Prove it that all who fired the rockets are part of the government.
As I said, Neither Hamass, nor Fatah is a fully unifies and tight-knit group. They have mostly independant cells. Half of those cells have their own spiritual leaders who preach their own version of whatever should be done.  

Secondly, show me the graffiti they wrote, show me an uninformed house that everyone was killed in, then show me where there is absolutely no food or water in a city of 1.5 million (speaking of Gaza for this one).  Finally, economic dependence on oneself implies independence of anyone else, meaning a good thing.

A bit harder to do given that journalist are not allowed to enter. Still, there are many a reports all over the internet. Even if I were to assume that 90% of htem are bogus or propaganda, that still leaves a whole lot.

And Israel making Gaza dependent on itself(Israel), by destroying it's infrastrucutre, so that the Gaza strip has to import their food and almost everything else from Israel at DOUBLE PRICE is NOT a good thing.

For almost a week and a half before the actual troops went in, leaflets, fliers, and all sorts of warnings to civilians were dropped by air.  Then, as I believe someone already pointed out in this thread, they actually called cell phones to warn people before actually moving in.  I highly, fully, and completely doubt that there is no food or water in Gaza.

Given that Israel bombed the waterworks and mills, where is the food coming from? 
Speaking of which, where are the people supposed to go?
Gaza is a big ghetto. Israel is doing what the natzis did in Berlin.

You seem to have misunderstood the infrastructure that Israel is destroying is the infrastructure that the government has been using to launch rockets.

Allegedly. With no proof whatsoever to back it up. What a startling conincidence that every factory, mill, plant or other important infastructure bulding in Gaza was used by Hamas. Such a load of bulls*** is imply too much to swallow.

[Splinter]

And prevented any chance of catching them committing war crimes too. Wonderful.

Remember that you could charge anyone leaking with spying.

Yeah so better be ready to catch these kids in case they suddenly start doing something they don't have a history of doing (war crimes) at the cost of their lives just because notorious and historically proven liars (I'm talking about the terrorist groups which for some reason constitute a reliable source for so many.) claim these kids are barbarians. Good deal.

Your right we could charge anonymous with leaking a story because we know exactly who that is because he didn't use anonymous so that we wouldn't know who leaked the story. Peoples ability to assume that other people can't think through situations is nothing short of astounding.

Ah, I see the problem. You have no conception of how a terrorist group actually works!

Gosh I'm sorry I forgot about how you spent so much time in a country with terrorists or in a terrorists organization yourself? But it's a good thing you don't just gloat that you know more. You actually share what you know and enlighten us about how terrorists work and think... oh wait...

If IDF soldiers are practicly allowed to kill everybody because they are not being watched, how does that save some lives?

WARNING: Graphic links!

Because they are just blood thirsty barbarians who cut your guts out throw your body out the window and parade around with your intestines dripping on their faces screaming “death to Arabs!” after smashing in your head all because you took a wrong turn into an Israel town.

No you are right the IDF has the history of war crimes better the soldiers die then be able to continue their proven long track record of blatant disregard for human life and the utter blood lust instilled in all Israeli children at birth.

Heil Israel!

Wow.

Jesus loves you my man. Be safe. Peace be with you and your family...

Israel bombs Gaza and kills dozens of Palestinians. Then they blockade Gaza and starve Palestinians to death. Hundreds of Palestinians die between the bombing and blockade.

The only people starving the Palestinians is Hamas. Every day trucks with tons of supplies go to the border crossings... Israeli trucks sent by the Israeli government and every day one of 3 things happen the first happens least the second happens the most and the third is right in the middle depending on the mood that day. 1. The trucks get through and unload at the distribution centers that are of course under Palestinian government control or Hamas if you prefer where it is then distributed to the families and markets around Gaza. 2.  The trucks get through and unload at the distribution centers that are of course under Palestinian government control or Hamas if you prefer where it is then distributed to Hamas members only. 3.  The trucks get through and are shot at by Hamas and are forced to turn back.

But random Hamas or non-Hamas

There is nothing random about it. Hamas still has a stated end goal of a Palestine free of Jews and non Muslims period. The fact that they are willing lie about putting that aside so that they can live to fight another day doesn't make them any less goal oriented. At all their rallies seminars and Sunday school meeting they still teach this stuff. Just because the rest of the world is too dumb to care doesn't mean we should be.

fire rockets which rarely ever do any real damage or cost lives and that justifies killing over a thousand people?

So how many Arab lives are worth one Israeli life? Two hundred? A thousand?

I wonder is your house insured against rocket attacks? So you are sitting at home with your child watching a t.v. Show and suddenly there is the missile siren again and even though it's been like this for the past 8 years you still can't shake how wrong it is that you have 15 seconds to get your entire family into shelter or risk losing them forever. So you jump up and so does your kid because you both know the drill and you shout to your wife seeing if she is getting the baby only the baby was sleeping on the upper floor so you have to choose to get to cover or go get the baby well of course you go get the baby so you run upstairs while your wife and child go to the shelter and all you can do is cover the baby with your body and pray that today is not your day. If not for yourself for your families sake. After the earth shattering boom you come downstairs holding your child to find the last 3 stairs missing and your child's favorite sponge bob chair slowly deflating from shrapnel that hit it where your sons stomach was just 20 seconds ago. Your living room is gone and the rain is pouring in but still you are thankful because your family is alive... for now.

Live like that for 8 years then you can get all self righteous and come talk to me.

The world's favorite new leader... the most liberal leader ever elected himself said he would never stand for that kind of threat on his children. But again maybe you just don't love your family as much as Israelis do.

Israel more than has the right to defend itself but there is such a thing as going far too over the top. IDF soldiers committed war crimes. The IAF used white phosphorous for no other purpose to inflict pain and suffering. Israel ravaged Gaza's infrastructure and used force far more excessive than necessary or humane. If you're still trying to justify this, you need to check your priorities, because you are either getting your news from a terrible, terrible source (and blaming the EVIL CORRUPT LIBERAL media in the BBC, Guardian, al-Jazeera or al-Arabiya for reporting the facts you don't want to hear) or are racist to the point of valuing Israeli life over Arab life.

Show me war crimes? Again you are basing all this on what you got from your media station which was gotten from Palestinian sources which is historically not only unreliable but downright deceitful.

Scotty beat me to the WF issue. I'll address excessive force. So the force was far more excessive than necessary to achieve what? Was the bombing of Berlin excessive? Are we going to hold the allies for war crimes now?

I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself.

Israel's use of force was over the bounds of necessary and humane.  War is violent, and people die, I know, but two or three Israeli lives and a few new holes in Southern Israel do not justify 1500 people dead and blasting an entire region back three millenia. 

I still find it funny sometimes that people start a war with you and then cry when they lose it's so funny.

First of all if you guys get to quote your oh so reliable sources (the Palestinians) on the casualty number I will do the same. So now your question should read: “War is violent, and people die, I know, but 8 years and over 10,000 rocket and mortar attack along with 20-25 Israeli lives and 500+ wounded and significant property damage and unbearable living conditions in Southern Israel do not justify 1166 people dead of whom 709 have been identified as "Hamas terror operatives 162 additional names of men killed during the operation "have not been yet attributed to any organization." and A total of 295 Palestinian non-combatants died during the operation - 89 of them under the age of 16, and 49 of them women”

It's not like this was all the sudden a lash out. Every time they would shoot at us we would surgically strike this leader and surgically strike that launch team. But it just wasn't helping hell we even tried giving them back Gaza that just showed them that their temper tantrum worked and they started shooting more!

Your walking down the street a guy comes at you and smacks you in the face and runs off. You know who it is you know where he lives but you call the police (UN) and they issue him a stern warning. Well next day he does it again and again and again and the police just keep issuing warning never anything more. So the next time he comes back he slaps you and you punch him. The police are mad at you but you feel like finally he learned his lesson. The next day he comes and stabs you your in the hospital and you survive but you don't know what to do anymore and every day he keeps coming at you with bigger and more powerful weapons until finally after 8 years and more scars than you can count you say enough and decide to do something about it. I don't know about you but I wouldn't have shown that kind of restraint. And to put it further into perspective he wasn't just attacking you, the man/protector of your house, he was actually trying to leave you alone because he knew you could stop him and he was intentionally going after your house your wife and your kids... and your little dog too. Now Tolerate that for 8 years.

Regardless of whether the IDF committed war crimes or not, they still went far too over the top with their response.  Israel has had a recent history of doing that--and too many people have died as a result.  There are other approaches Israel, the other Arab countries, and the Palestinians can take to disarming Hamas and returning stability to the region without spilling any further blood, but Israel has so far not worked its hardest to advance these proposals.  With a new extreme right-wing government about to take power I fear that won't change anytime in the near future.

This is all relative to your perspective as someone on the outside looking in through a prepositioned window to show you only what 'they' want to show you. Seriously I'm so tired of every Joe Schmo thinking he can solve the ME problem given a month in power. Understand Radical fundamentalist Islam and it's goals first. Understand that despite what the world would have you believe everything is not all just a product of your circumstances and evil does exist. Understand that you can't always believe what you see especially when it's through someone else's 'eyes'.

Yeah, because a rag-tag terrorist group composed of starving and sick people poses such a significant threat to Israel.

Did we forget 900+ dead Israelis in the second intifada by nothing but these same sick starving people?

Nation whose military power is only surpassed by the United States and has nukes...versus a blockaded overcrowded under-supplied and neglected strip of land. Yep!  Israel's sure to fall now.

Ummm... The U.S. Is the only military power stronger than Israel? What happened to Germany? GB? Russia? China? I don't know for a fact and honestly it's quite flattering that you would think that but I do believe at least 2 of the countries I said would be more than a match for sheer overwhelming numbers. (RU & China)

Oh yeah and 'neglected' I just want to remind everyone that when Israel pulled out of Gaza we left all the award winning farming work complete with irrigation and high tech greenhouses everything intact and your peace loving friends who just want some water and to be support themselves and to be able to live in peace ransacked and pillaged the whole think in less than 24 hours.

Ask yourself this question. If the Palestinians in Gaza weren't bombing Israel would they still be being under-supplied and neglected and even attacked by Israel? Before you answer let me just point out a little piece of land that most of you have forgotten that is inhabited by the exact same people. The West Bank. When is the last time you heard of a blockade or starving west bank people? Well that's not shock because the west bank doesn't attack Israel. Who knew? If you leave Israel alone they will leave you alone? You mean they aren't blood thirsty scum sucking bottom dwelling parasites? Gosh there goes your doctoral thesis.

[TrashMan]

Yeah so better be ready to catch these kids in case they suddenly start doing something they don't have a history of doing (war crimes) at the cost of their lives just because notorious and historically proven liars (I'm talking about the terrorist groups which for some reason constitute a reliable source for so many.) claim these kids are barbarians. Good deal.

So everyone in Gaza is a terrorist? Or at least anyone who tells anything wrong about the IDF?

And the sweet , innocent kiddes don't have a history od doing anything wrong, ever... like runnign people over with bulldozers?

Your right we could charge anonymous with leaking a story because we know exactly who that is because he didn't use anonymous so that we wouldn't know who leaked the story. Peoples ability to assume that other people can't think through situations is nothing short of astounding.

You don't sure anonymus, you sue the news agency. You ban it form the country and sue it. Believe me, that's too high a cost to pay, regardlesss of how "hot" the news is. Under such circumstances, they'd even tell who their source was.

The only people starving the Palestinians is Hamas. Every day trucks with tons of supplies go to the border crossings... Israeli trucks sent by the Israeli government and every day one of 3 things happen the first happens least the second happens the most and the third is right in the middle depending on the mood that day. 1. The trucks get through and unload at the distribution centers that are of course under Palestinian government control or Hamas if you prefer where it is then distributed to the families and markets around Gaza. 2.  The trucks get through and unload at the distribution centers that are of course under Palestinian government control or Hamas if you prefer where it is then distributed to Hamas members only. 3.  The trucks get through and are shot at by Hamas and are forced to turn back.

4. The trucks are not allowed to cross the border in the first place. Israel regulary stops who convoys of humanitarian aid.

Live like that for 8 years then you can get all self righteous and come talk to me.

Better than living in the streets, treated like dirt, kicked out of your house and half your family and firends killed by now. with more getting killed every day. And like that for your whole life. Don't talk about "unbearable living conditions". People in Gaza have it FAR worse.
 

The world's favorite new leader... the most liberal leader ever elected himself said he would never stand for that kind of threat on his children. But again maybe you just don't love your family as much as Israelis do.

Maybe I just don't like killing other innocent people as much as you do and using redicolous excuses and flimy(and I dare say horrific) justifications like love.

Scotty beat me to the WF issue. I'll address excessive force. So the force was far more excessive than necessary to achieve what? Was the bombing of Berlin excessive? Are we going to hold the allies for war crimes now?

If they did it now they would be.

This is all relative to your perspective as someone on the outside looking in through a prepositioned window to show you only what 'they' want to show you. Seriously I'm so tired of every Joe Schmo thinking he can solve the ME problem given a month in power. Understand Radical fundamentalist Islam and it's goals first. Understand that despite what the world would have you believe everything is not all just a product of your circumstances and evil does exist. Understand that you can't always believe what you see especially when it's through someone else's 'eyes'.

Understand Radical Judaism and it's goals first. Understand that despite what the world would have you believe everything is not all just a product of your circumstances and evil does exist.

[Scotty]

Understand Radical Judaism and it's goals first.

So... Everyone leading Israel and the IDF is a Radical Jew?  It couldn't possibly be that the Radical Muslims that have been bombing them for eight years brough this on themselves at all.

So everyone in Gaza is a terrorist? Or at least anyone who tells anything wrong about the IDF?

In this case, most likely those who are calling the IDF war criminals are a part of Hamas (or some other anti-Israel group).  If you bother looking, you can find maybe 50 different people whining about how Israel brutally murdered people, and used them as shields.  50, out of 1.5 million people living in Gaza.  That comes to 0.00003% of the people in that city.  I'm inclined to believe that those people are of Hamas, or terrorists.

like runnign people over with bulldozers?

Check both sides of that.  Gaza actually started that too.  Killed three people with a bulldozer by running into a bus.

4. The trucks are not allowed to cross the border in the first place. Israel regulary stops who convoys of humanitarian aid.

.... As of November 2008.  The aid that has been stopped has been:  one boat by Israel, a convoy in Rafah (another Palestinian State), some convoys in Tunisia.  Oh, and don't forget that the U.N. Aid program stopped its aid to Gaza too!  Wow, all that must be Israel stopping the convoys, huh?

half your family and firends killed by now.

Yeah, because Israel actually killed half of the cities population?

Better than living in the streets, treated like dirt, kicked out of your house and half your family and firends killed by now. with more getting killed every day. And like that for your whole life. Don't talk about "unbearable living conditions". People in Gaza have it FAR worse.

Hmmm, you just have to be the world's foremost expert on Gazan living conditions then.

Maybe I just don't like killing other innocent people as much as you do and using redicolous excuses and flimy(and I dare say horrific) justifications like love

Seriously?  He's talking about (presumably) his house being bombed, and you accuse him of liking killing innocent people?  Bull****.

[TrashMan]

So... Everyone leading Israel and the IDF is a Radical Jew?  It couldn't possibly be that the Radical Muslims that have been bombing them for eight years brough this on themselves at all.

If you can make silly claims that everyone in Gaza is a radical, then I can make silly claims that everyone in Israel is a radical too.
After all, if you don't need common sense, neither do I.

In this case, most likely those who are calling the IDF war criminals are a part of Hamas (or some other anti-Israel group).  If you bother looking, you can find maybe 50 different people whining about how Israel brutally murdered people, and used them as shields.  50, out of 1.5 million people living in Gaza.  That comes to 0.00003% of the people in that city.  I'm inclined to believe that those people are of Hamas, or terrorists.

A "bit" more than 50, some of them aren't even palestinians. I also bet there would be more if there wasn't a journalist blockade.
Not to mention that most of the people in Gaza hate the IDF and Israel (and justly so). If I lived there I would too.

Check both sides of that.  Gaza actually started that too.  Killed three people with a bulldozer by running into a bus.

And that makes it right for IDF to run over people who defeintely aren't  terrorist?
You don't fight evil by being "eviler" than the other guy.

.... As of November 2008.  The aid that has been stopped has been:  one boat by Israel, a convoy in Rafah (another Palestinian State), some convoys in Tunisia.  Oh, and don't forget that the U.N. Aid program stopped its aid to Gaza too!  Wow, all that must be Israel stopping the convoys, huh?

Israeli propaganda. I don't trust your numbers.

Hmmm, you just have to be the world's foremost expert on Gazan living conditions then.

Well, apparently more than you.

Seriously?  He's talking about (presumably) his house being bombed, and you accuse him of liking killing innocent people?  Bull****.

No bull****. He uses that as justification and excuse to bomb other civilians.
Israeli lost his house. That makes it OK for thousands of palestinians to loose theirs. And their lives.

There was a war in my country too.
I never would have supported an attack on Belgrade for instance. I would never have supported occupation of their territory or our troops even crossing the border. Even the NATO bombing seemed to harsh at times.

[Rhymes]

Heil Israel!

The rest of your argument may or may not be valid, I can't judge, and frankly, I don't care, but what's above these words is worth only one response:

[Scotty]

If you can make silly claims that everyone in Gaza is a radical

I never said they were all radical.  I was merely saying the Hamas is a radical Islamic government.  Its citizens are not forced to think exactly the same way.  Fatah is actually a moderate group, and is supported by about 41% of the population.

A "bit" more than 50, some of them aren't even palestinians.

And really funny how they only single out Israel.  No mention anywhere of Egypt police firing on fleeing Palestinians.  Second paragraph.

Looking back on the argument, a question arises.  Why should we be holding the entirety of Israel responsible for the actions of a few immoral idiots?

*And now back to your regularly scheduled argument*

Israel the government didn't commit war crimes.  A small, horribly insignificant percentage might have.  Besides, why would they wait two months to finally say something?

Idan Zuaretz of Givati said "in every war there is a small percentage of problematic soldiers, but we must look at it from a broad perspective and not focus on isolated incidents."

Zuaretz, a company commander, also questioned the integrity of the soldiers who made the controversial claims, saying "if this was such a burning issue for them, why have they remained silent until now? On an ethical and moral level, they were obligated to stop what they claimed had occurred and not wait two months to be heard at some esoteric debate."

That, and no real conclusive evidence has yet to be presented.  You can't take claims like this at face value.

Some more eveidence against:
IDF Soldiers Rebut Claims of Immoral Conduct in Gaza

This one actually NAMES people and gives specific examples, as well as providing a fairly conclusive view of the situation.  One of my favorite parts of the articles is in the last paragraph:

"We checked whether Israel violated any international laws in Gaza," she said, but admitted that the report was based on Palestinian eyewitness accounts and did not include soldiers' testimonies.

I can't believe they'd forget to include a little detail like that. 

EDIT:  fixed a quote issue.

[karajorma]

The Guardian report I posted asked for the Israelis to give their side of the story repeatedly only to get spin from the Israeli military instead.

[Snail]

TrashMan, the Mossad are at your house.