[Liberator]

I'll take the Solomon approach, cut the baby in half and give it to each then, create a line of demarcation where no life can exist, (sterilize the soil, irradiate the water ect.)and put Israel on one side and Palestine on the other.  Put Jerusalem in the middle as an unaffiliated location and be done with it.

If it is about resources then split them and be done with it.  You've got hundreds of millions of people who want to go to the Holy Land and worship as they have been taught.  Instead of holy worship of God, you've got one side trying to wipe out the other by hook(rockets, suicide bombs, ect.) or crook(looking pathetic and sounding abused to the brain dead media), and the other side retaliating in a "civilized" way by deploying they're military forces in defense of EVERYONE living in the rocket areas and bomb locations, Israeli AND Muslim.

Basically you are telling me that because The Trapster is sucker punching the Silver Surfer the Surfer shouldn't hit back because he's so much stronger and in control of himself?

[Kosh]

If it is about resources then split them and be done with it.

It's not, it's about religion.

I'll take the Solomon approach, cut the baby in half and give it to each then, create a line of demarcation where no life can exist, (sterilize the soil, irradiate the water ect.)and put Israel on one side and Palestine on the other.  Put Jerusalem in the middle as an unaffiliated location and be done with it.

That's what the UN did in '48.

[Nuclear1]

Basically you are telling me that because The Trapster is sucker punching the Silver Surfer the Surfer shouldn't hit back because he's so much stronger and in control of himself?

No.

We're saying Israel went over the bounds of acceptable when they attacked Gaza.  They should retaliate, but plenty of conditions which led to the problems there were from Israel's actions. 

Also, you realize it's less than 40 miles from Jerusalem to Gaza?  And look at the difference in landscape...who's the better steward of said resources.

You're comparing the Palestinian territories management of resources to Israeli management of resources?

Don't think you've noticed, but there's a tad bit of a difference in how much money each side gets to spend on managing resources and developing them.  And, frankly, no matter how many rockets Hamas fires, none damage the Israeli infrastructure badly enough to affect its management of resources.  It's still a highly-advanced and stable country whose quality of life is very high for the Middle East outside of the Gulf states.

Gaza, on the other hand, has been blockaded, devastated, and starved into being a third world country.  Of course they're not going to be able to use their resources in a better manner--Israel destroyed every way they can!  Mills, sewage treatment plants, farms...Israel blew it all up or prevented them from treating them! 

I mean, what you're doing is tantamount to saying Chechnya is unworthy of its resources and should give it all to Russia, or comparing the US farm production to the Sudan! Golly gee willickers! No wonder there's such a difference!

you've got one side trying to wipe out the other by hook(rockets, suicide bombs, ect.) or crook(looking pathetic and sounding abused to the brain dead media)

Palestine looks like its been down-trodden and abused because, well...it has been.  At the hands of the terrorist organizations and Israel.  Those collapsed buildings you see on the news?  You seem them because, well, they exist.  The overcrowded refugee camps?  You seem them, because, well, they exist. 

and the other side retaliating in a "civilized" way by deploying they're military forces in defense of EVERYONE living in the rocket areas and bomb locations, Israeli AND Muslim.

For Israeli citizens.

How much regard do you think they paid to the residents of Gaza?

[karajorma]

Except that most Jews don't think God has ordered them to kill everyone not a Jew.

You sure about that? Cause I can quote chapter and verse. Christians can hide behind the whole "Jesus made another contract for us" but Jews certainly can't.

[Grizzly]

Most muslims also don't believe that god has ordered them to kill everyone not muslim, and yes, one can quote chapter and verse there too.

So please, people, don't start arguing about that, will you?

[Splinter]

There was PLO. Then there was Fatah. Then there is Hamas. Israel has and still has someone to hand the reigns over. It just doesn't want to. It expect immediate results and goes ape*** insane when it doesn't get it.
Heck, if I were elected as leader of the palestinians, not even I would want to talk to Isreal now - after their magnificent track record of assisaniting and demonizing anyone who wants to actually talk to them, I'd just be making myself a target.

Again Fatah is PLO. And again these are parties that to this day say they don't recognize our right to exist. So for whatever reason you choose to glaze over this issue which btw is a big freaking issue and just say hey look they are alive and not deaf dumb and mute they must be legitimate partners for peace. Awesome!

Uuuh yeah in Gaza when we had the 'ceasefire' and we expected immediate results was because the people we were negotiating with were not a party that had to go out and find and stop the terrorists from shooting rockets THEY ARE THE TERRORISTS SHOOTING ROCKETS! Negotiating with terrorists isn't a policy most countries would undertake but when you do you best be damn sure you expect immediate results.

I can just see if you were there. Nah go right ahead shooting rockets just launch a couple less every day and we will be just fine. You either are too far removed from this situation to appreciate the severity or you have a death wish.

Allow? Strange choice of words. People who fight against Israel didn't ask anyones permission.

And yet they get the peoples permission.

Because the people don't protest or act against these groups and their methods and they claim them as their freedom fighters and elect them to government and they revere the ones that gave their lives to spill Jewish blood. So yeah. They allow them to fight for them.

Because it's his tower, it has valubales in it, and I don't have any proof that he will attack at all.
You do realsie that some people/leaders are full of hot air and are just strong on words.

Don't have any proof that he will attack?  Just full of hot air? Am I on punked?

1948 war with Syria
1967 war with Syria
1973 war with Syria
1982 war with Syria
2006 war with Syrian armed and trained group.

1948 – present: Syria doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist and their political dialog consists of much the same rantings as Iran. Wipe Israel off the map. Cleanse the Muslim holy land from the Zionist scourge etc etc.

So full of words backed with 61 years of actions you really ARE suicidal.

I called the imports economic slavery. I mean...really

Whatever it is that is needed. I doubt the aid is enough by itself, so things have to be imported. Yes, that includes food. It was in the papers.
Flour to be more precise. And other things. All imported. All paid.

So they choose to import more of what they already get for free? Which is their right they can do that if they want but that is not economic slavery. And show me how many Palestinians in Gaza died of starvation then we can talk about how you doubt the aid is enough. Enough is relative.

Again the stuff they NEED food, medical supplies, clothing, and fuel all comes in the aid trucks. Besides that... stuff like building materials are restricted so again what do they HAVE to import?

and that's wrong. There have been numerous reports, interviews with palestinian buisnismen who talk about these things. they import a lot of stuff, including food.

Which brings us back to one of our original arguments why exactly do you take their word for it? Because of their golden track record of NOT distorting the truth?

If they only food they could get was by importing that would be economic slavery. But it's not and it's not.

And building materials outlawed? So they can't rebuild their factories and homes? Way to go Isreal!

They really should have thought of that before allowing those factories and homes to be used to store launch and hide weapons and the terrorists who use them. Tough luck. You reap what you sow. Oh yeah I forgot the residents who want to refuse can't because they will be killed or maimed or imprisoned... awesome. Again who elected these people to leadership? Again you reap what you sow.

[TrashMan]

I can just see if you were there. Nah go right ahead shooting rockets just launch a couple less every day and we will be just fine. You either are too far removed from this situation to appreciate the severity or you have a death wish.

If I had a death wish I'd  try to negotiate with Isreal.
I'd be assasinated with a guided missile the next morning.

Because the people don't protest or act against these groups and their methods and they claim them as their freedom fighters and elect them to government and they revere the ones that gave their lives to spill Jewish blood. So yeah. They allow them to fight for them.

And you allow IDF to buldoze refugee camps and bomb whole cities to stone age. You're a bigger terrorist supporter than the plaestinian people.

Which brings us back to one of our original arguments why exactly do you take their word for it? Because of their golden track record of NOT distorting the truth?

If they only food they could get was by importing that would be economic slavery. But it's not and it's not.

And you know that how? Cause you're sources never lie?
Buisnessman generally want to do buisness. They didn't have a beef with Israel until it started blowing their factories/mills/offices.
I suppose it is possible for them to lie now that they have a grudge...Oh, wait. I just remembered! No one on the Israeli side has any grudges or reasons to lie!

And building materials outlawed? So they can't rebuild their factories and homes? Way to go Isreal!

They really should have thought of that before allowing those factories and homes to be used to store launch and hide weapons and the terrorists who use them. Tough luck. You reap what you sow. Oh yeah I forgot the residents who want to refuse can't because they will be killed or maimed or imprisoned... awesome. Again who elected these people to leadership? Again you reap what you sow.

For which again Israel offered 0 proof. It's blowing up schools, mosks, factories, mills, homes. Never has it offered any proof that it actually housed or stored anything. So I should just take their word for it? That every rock is housing a terrorist artillery?

With the number of structures destroyed, even if only half were actually weapon storages, then the palestinians have enough weapon stockpiles for World War 3 + extra. And I had to be pretty retarded to buy that bulls***.

[Hellstryker]

I was going to report that post of yours Kara, but apparently this forum has no rules about such things. Don't get me wrong, I hate religion as much as the next guy, but holy **** are you ignorant.  Sure you don't want to start up your own little dictatorship there in Britain and start cooking these people in ovens? A part of me really thinks you would, if given the chance.

Wow, just, wow.

[karajorma]

I was going to report that post of yours Kara, but apparently this forum has no rules about such things. Don't get me wrong, I hate religion as much as the next guy, but holy **** are you ignorant.  Sure you don't want to start up your own little dictatorship there in Britain and start cooking these people in ovens? A part of me really thinks you would, if given the chance.

Wow, just, wow.

Seriously, no one cares about your stupid little vendetta, least of all me. Give it up.

[Hellstryker]

I was going to report that post of yours Kara, but apparently this forum has no rules about such things. Don't get me wrong, I hate religion as much as the next guy, but holy **** are you ignorant.  Sure you don't want to start up your own little dictatorship there in Britain and start cooking these people in ovens? A part of me really thinks you would, if given the chance.

Wow, just, wow.

Seriously, no one cares about your stupid little vendetta, least of all me. Give it up.

It's not about YOU it's about the way you do things god dammit. Saying all Jews want everyone who's not a Jew to die is like saying all Pakis are dirty terrorists. DO YOU GET IT?

[Turambar]

Except he's not saying that all Jews want everyone who's not a Jew to die, he's just saying that the text telling them so is present in their religious book.

If everyone followed their religious book, there'd be no humans left.

[karajorma]

Turambar gets it.

[General Battuta]

Hellstryker, that was uncalled for. Kara clearly wasn't saying that.

I understand (though do not empathize with) hard feelings towards Kara, but selective reading and interpretation of his posts is unfair.

[Hellstryker]

Except he's not saying that all Jews want everyone who's not a Jew to die, he's just saying that the text telling them so is present in their religious book.

If everyone followed their religious book, there'd be no humans left.

Yeah, but they don't, therefor he has no point. people cannot be generalized by a book. My grandma is a Christian, and I don't see her screaming that every Muslim is evil. Stupid thing to say in the first place.

Hellstryker, that was uncalled for. Kara clearly wasn't saying that.

I understand (though do not empathize with) hard feelings towards Kara, but selective reading and interpretation of his posts is unfair.

Stop trying to be a moderator, you can do it when you are one.
You cannot understand my feelings towards Kara, because clearly you agree with the way he runs things. So to you I appear to be acting like an irrational idiot.

There were two ways of interpreting that post of his. One would be that he hates Jews, one would be that he was merely pointing out a point made in a stupid ancient book. He made it sound like the former.

[karajorma]

You do understand that when using sarcasm you say something stupid in order to make your point?

[General Battuta]

Again, Hellstryker, he was making reference to an earlier point which suggested that Muslims were motivated by their own holy text (the Quran) to destroy non-Muslims. It was a valid comparison meant to undermine that argument.

I respect you and your work, and you don't seem irrational to me. However, there's no need to snap; personal opinions on behavior aren't restricted to moderators.

It's always tempting to draw battle lines between 'us' and 'them', particularly when you feel like the only one on the 'us' team. But I'm just rebuking you in this one case, not providing any kind of general criticism of your behavior or opinions.

The fact that Kara has said he thinks both sides of the conflict are wrong -- explicitly, and in just those words -- indicates an admirable degree of detachment and rationality.

[Flipside]

Thing is, some Christians do have grandmas who scream that all Muslims should be killed, just as some Muslims do have grandmas who scream that all Christians should be killed, I think that's the point that needs to be made here, people have a choice.

[karajorma]

I'm sure that there's an allegory in here somewhere about always assuming the worst of people that applies to the situation in Palestine.

Buggered if I can find it though.

[Scotty]

If I had a death wish I'd  try to negotiate with Isreal.

It wouldn't matter if you weren't some idiot lobbing rockets at them.

bomb whole cities to stone age.

stone age = stone tools the height of technology.  bombed to maybe pre-modern age.  They still have cars, cell phones and the like.  Find a different analogy.

And you know that how? Cause you're sources never lie?
Buisnessman generally want to do buisness. They didn't have a beef with Israel until it started blowing their factories/mills/offices.
I suppose it is possible for them to lie now that they have a grudge...Oh, wait. I just remembered! No one on the Israeli side has any grudges or reasons to lie!

 

With the number of structures destroyed, even if only half were actually weapon storages, then the palestinians have enough weapon stockpiles for World War 3 + extra. And I had to be pretty retarded to buy that bulls***.

Honestly?  You have no f*cking idea what you are talking about.  In WWII, the U.S. alone had 16.1 million men serve.  Russia had 50+ million.  Germany had around 22 IIRC.  WW3 my ass!  You could fill the entirety of Palestine several times over with equipment and weapons to fight a major world war.  Numbers that come out seem to be the sort of numbers that would support a force of about 50,000. 

[Snail]

I love it when silly members start trying to go against the admins.