[Commander Zane]

Are you kidding me? Hamas order a rocket attack on Israel and that give Israel the right to tie children of that country to their jeeps in order to prevent them being shot at?

That conduct is disgusting.

Are you actually claiming that the commission of war crimes is justifiable as long as the enemy started the war?

If that's the case then Afhganistan and Iran should be vaporized by the U.S. and then we call it a day.

[Nuclear1]

Well, it's more like, "Poke me with a small knife and I throw a hand grenade at you and a huge group of people."

This is more than just Palestinians being affected by the attack. Even if Hamas was 100% responsible for 100% of the rockets coming out of Gaza, they got their nose bloodied enough. I 100% doubt that all 1000+ Gazans killed in the attack were all affiliated with Hamas, or fired those rockets.

Innocent people died. Israel did it. Hamas did plenty of it too, but Israel is held to higher standards than a terrorist organization. They should live up to them.

[WeatherOp]

Well, it's more like, "Poke me with a small knife and I throw a hand grenade at you and a huge group of people."

This is more than just Palestinians being affected by the attack. Even if Hamas was 100% responsible for 100% of the rockets coming out of Gaza, they got their nose bloodied enough. I 100% doubt that all 1000+ Gazans killed in the attack were all affiliated with Hamas, or fired those rockets.

Innocent people died. Israel did it. Hamas did plenty of it too, but Israel is held to higher standards than a terrorist organization. They should live up to them.

They should have? Then what? As bad as what happened to the civilians, Israel sure as heck sent a message. Because one thing that can be assured, the U.N. sure as heck wasn't gonna do a thing besides whine, "Bad Hamas, don't shoot Israel with rockets." To be perfectly honest, Israel was gonna get griped at by the U.N. in any case.

Killing civilians is horrible, but war is horrible, and if it takes extreme force, then use extreme force.

[Nuke]

Moral of the story, don't shoot missiles at Isreal, unless they're nukes.

fixed

[Scotty]

Seems like no one can say that those making the claims are unidentified any more.

That's all good for the claims side, but there is still no detail regarding the actual offenses.  So far, all that has been presented is "Israel committed war crimes:  an anonymous soldier did this, an unidentified soldier did that, according to this guy in Gaza."

Innocent people died. Israel did it. Hamas did plenty of it too, but Israel is held to higher standards than a terrorist organization. They should live up to them.

Soooo.... Israel needs to be held to a higher standard than another established government?  Why does Hamas get away with no blame at all for this?  Hamas may be a terrorist organization to us, but it is the government of the Gaza Strip.  It should be held to the same standards.

I 100% doubt that all 1000+ Gazans killed in the attack were all affiliated with Hamas, or fired those rockets.

And I 100% doubt that all the Germans killed in air raids during WWII were affiliated with the Nazi Party, but no-one calls that a war crime.  Neither does anyone call a SINGLE ONE of the civilians killed in Iraq and Afghanistan having been the victim of a war crime, no matter what may have happened.  This has all been blown out of scope by the media.

[karajorma]

Innocent people died. Israel did it.

It's not just that innocent people died. That can be explained away as collateral damage. What I'm getting upset about is a completely different matter.

I'm talking about the deliberate actions of the IDF. I'm talking about them grabbing random civilians (including children) off the street and pushing them through doorways first when storming a building so that the civilian will get shot instead of a soldier.

Anyone who can claim justification for that is a ****ing bastard.

That's all good for the claims side, but there is still no detail regarding the actual offenses.  So far, all that has been presented is "Israel committed war crimes:  an anonymous soldier did this, an unidentified soldier did that, according to this guy in Gaza."

Bollocks. The attack by the drone against the family having lunch was taped by the drone operator. If Israel want to know who did it they only need to look at the tapes.

[WeatherOp]

Innocent people died. Israel did it.

It's not just that innocent people died. That can be explained away as collateral damage. What I'm getting upset about is a completely different matter.

I'm talking about the deliberate actions of the IDF. I'm talking about them grabbing random civilians (including children) off the street and pushing them through doorways first when storming a building so that the civilian will get shot instead of a soldier.

Anyone who can claim justification for that is a ****ing bastard.

I don't think anyone is claiming justification for soldiers doing things like that. What I'm getting at is where is our right to whine about what they did when we(U.N. countries) sat on our butt and kept saying "Bad Hamas, don't do this, Bad Hamas don't do that". What you open the door to is firstly letting a country who is having rockets tossed at daily, having the U.N. not do anything about it and know they won't. You put them who already hates the Palestinians into rage for revenge.

We have no right to complain or justify what Israel did, because it looks fairly certain we chose to be on the sideline no mater what.

[karajorma]

I think we always have the rights to point out war crimes.

And given that your nation is funding Israel it's pretty hard to make the claim to the rest of the world that America is just sitting on the sidelines. If you are funding a regime who is responsible for the commission of war crimes, know about it, and continue to fund them that makes you complicit in the commission of those crimes.

There's far too much turning a blind eye to the **** Israel does.

[SpardaSon21]

Israel isn't the aggressors in this Hamas is.  If Hamas is lobbing rockets at Israel, that's all the provocation Israel needs to go in guns blazing.  Israel has the right to protect itself.  The citizens of the Gaza Strip are less important in Israel's eyes than Israelis are, and I don't blame them.  That's like saying if America and Canada were at war, America should care the same about Canadian lives as it would about American lives.

[karajorma]

So you'd support American troops using Canadian children as human shields? That's perfectly fine with you?

[Commander Zane]

Soooo.... Israel needs to be held to a higher standard than another established government?  Why does Hamas get away with no blame at all for this?  Hamas may be a terrorist organization to us, but it is the government of the Gaza Strip.  It should be held to the same standards.

"Terrorists" don't fall under the rules of NATO and the Geneva Convention.
They can cut our scrotums off and force us to eat them just for kicks and walk away with it.

Israel isn't the aggressors in this Hamas is.  If Hamas is lobbing rockets at Israel, that's all the provocation Israel needs to go in guns blazing.  Israel has the right to protect itself.  The citizens of the Gaza Strip are less important in Israel's eyes than Israelis are, and I don't blame them.  That's like saying if America and Canada were at war, America should care the same about Canadian lives as it would about American lives.

Remember the term "necessary force?" Israel's actions are far from necessary or equal.

[karajorma]

"Terrorists" don't fall under the rules of NATO and the Geneva Convention.
They can cut our scrotums off and force us to eat them just for kicks and walk away with it.

The disregard of the rules governing civilians is pretty much what makes them terrorists in the first place.

[Uchuujinsan]

That's like saying if America and Canada were at war, America should care the same about Canadian lives as it would about American lives.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

[Commander Zane]

I'd hate to say it but that's been contradicted and flat-out ignored since it was first written.

[Rick James]

I'd hate to say it but that's been contradicted and flat-out ignored since it was first written.

Where the hell's Rorshach when you need him?

[Commander Zane]

lol?

Ugh, forgot the plot already.

[Uchuujinsan]

I'd hate to say it but that's been contradicted and flat-out ignored since it was first written.

Right, but it's still the foundation of the modern world.

[SpardaSon21]

So you'd support American troops using Canadian children as human shields? That's perfectly fine with you?

Depends on what Canada was doing to us.  If Canada was launching rockets, suicide bombers, and general terror attacks us, maybe I would.

[Commander Zane]

So you'd support American troops using Canadian children as human shields? That's perfectly fine with you?

Depends on what Canada was doing to us.  If Canada was launching rockets, suicide bombers, and general terror attacks us, maybe I would.

Then America would be seen as the bad guys to everyone else in the world for being inhumane.

I'd hate to say it but that's been contradicted and flat-out ignored since it was first written.

Right, but it's still the foundation of the modern world.

Even if it is it's still a 200-some year-old piece of paper that was never followed. It's pointless even being taught to anyone at all anymore.

[The E]

I'd hate to say it but that's been contradicted and flat-out ignored since it was first written.

Right, but it's still the foundation of the modern world.

No. It's an ideal. Nothing more, nothing less.