[Aardwolf]

Ok, in a past shoutfest I had with Battuta, it was ultimately agreed that FTL travel and/or communication wouldn't work because it would break the universe.

The thing that caused the trouble was that if something at the destination could send an FTL signal back right away, it could/would arrive "before" the original signal was sent. So now I'm thinking... could a set of rules be devised which would avoid space-time paradoxen? Perhaps something with teleportation/jumps?

Lets here some ideas!

Preferably focusing more on the high-level "rules" than the technobabble.

[Snail]

How to square the circle with only compass and straightedge!

Let's hear some ideas!

[Klaustrophobia]

How to square the circle with only compass and straightedge!

Let's hear some ideas!

easy.  draw two perpendicular diameters through the circle, and then draw tangent lines at each of the points where the diameters intersect the circle.


FTL, **** knows.

[Mongoose]

"There is such a thing as a tesseract."

[Scourge of Ages]

The thing that caused the trouble was that if something at the destination could send an FTL signal back right away, it could/would arrive "before" the original signal was sent. So now I'm thinking... could a set of rules be devised which would avoid space-time paradoxen? Perhaps something with teleportation/jumps?

Hey, that was my idea! You mean to say you had another FTL thread without me??? For shame...
EDIT: Oh wait, was it IRC?

Here it is: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=69684.msg1377576#msg1377576

[Snail]

easy.  draw two perpendicular diameters through the circle, and then draw tangent lines at each of the points where the diameters intersect the circle.

Congratulations! You have just squared the circle!

I might want to say at this point that they were supposed to have the same area.

[Aardwolf]

Hey, quit it.

@Scourge of Ages: er, I think it was settled on IRC, but yeah that's the right thread.

Anywho, if you disallowed FTL comms, could a jump-based system (like FS and many other sci-fi universes have) avoid time-travel paradoxes? What would/could the rule be for getting away with it?

[Unknown Target]

Ok, in a past shoutfest I had with Battuta, it was ultimately agreed that FTL travel and/or communication wouldn't work because it would break the universe.

The thing that caused the trouble was that if something at the destination could send an FTL signal back right away, it could/would arrive "before" the original signal was sent. So now I'm thinking... could a set of rules be devised which would avoid space-time paradoxen? Perhaps something with teleportation/jumps?

Lets here some ideas!

Preferably focusing more on the high-level "rules" than the technobabble.

Er wait, why is this true? If I sent a message to someone, and they sent the FTL message back instantaneously, I would still get it after I sent the message, as I would have to wait for my message to travel to them before they sent it back.

[General Battuta]

Ok, in a past shoutfest I had with Battuta, it was ultimately agreed that FTL travel and/or communication wouldn't work because it would break the universe.

The thing that caused the trouble was that if something at the destination could send an FTL signal back right away, it could/would arrive "before" the original signal was sent. So now I'm thinking... could a set of rules be devised which would avoid space-time paradoxen? Perhaps something with teleportation/jumps?

Lets here some ideas!

Preferably focusing more on the high-level "rules" than the technobabble.

Er wait, why is this true? If I sent a message to someone, and they sent the FTL message back instantaneously, I would still get it after I sent the message, as I would have to wait for my message to travel to them before they sent it back.

No, you wouldn't; at least not in all IRFs observing the exchange. In some IRFs the message will arrive before it is sent, and one of the fundamental laws of the universe is that no IRF is privileged, meaning if causality is violated in one it is violated in all and spacetime asplodes.

*sigh* Please don't make me do the math out. It's not hard but it's an algebra grind. 

[Kosh]

Never say never guys


EDIT: You know, this reminds me of a notorious quote by a then famous physicist:

I can state flatly that heavier than air flying machines are impossible

Cookie to anyone who gets who said it.

[Aardwolf]

Er, was it Wehrner von Braun(sp?) ?

Edit: Looked it up. Bleh, I would have never guesed... I'll let someone else have the virtual cookie, though.

[General Battuta]

Never say never guys


EDIT: You know, this reminds me of a notorious quote by a then famous physicist:

I can state flatly that heavier than air flying machines are impossible

Cookie to anyone who gets who said it.

That's an Alcubierre drive and we know aaaaaaall about it.

It could lead to practical FTL, but it's orthogonal to this particular discussion.

[Kosh]

Never say never guys


EDIT: You know, this reminds me of a notorious quote by a then famous physicist:

I can state flatly that heavier than air flying machines are impossible

Cookie to anyone who gets who said it.

That's an Alcubierre drive and we know aaaaaaall about it.

It could lead to practical FTL, but it's orthogonal to this particular discussion.

I saw the words "FTL" and "travel" and got a little excited.

[IceFire]

Never say never guys


EDIT: You know, this reminds me of a notorious quote by a then famous physicist:

I can state flatly that heavier than air flying machines are impossible

Cookie to anyone who gets who said it.

Regardless of who said it... through history there have always been dreamers and naysayers.  Thank goodness for the dreamers.

Seriously... go back 100 years and tell someone that in 100 years time there will be a technology where you can communicate between people, in real time, to anyone on the planet using voice and video. You'd have to explain to them video first ... and then wait for their mind to be blown.

Give it a 100 years.

[Darius]

FTL ftl?

[Snail]

FTL ftl?

WTF? FTL FTW!

[NGTM-1R]

A paradox is by definition something that cannot exist.

Therefore if a paradox occurs, it is no longer a paradox and the universe will probably just get over it.

[StarSlayer]

Ok, in a past shoutfest I had with Battuta, it was ultimately agreed that FTL travel and/or communication wouldn't work because it would break the universe.

The thing that caused the trouble was that if something at the destination could send an FTL signal back right away, it could/would arrive "before" the original signal was sent. So now I'm thinking... could a set of rules be devised which would avoid space-time paradoxen? Perhaps something with teleportation/jumps?

Lets here some ideas!

Preferably focusing more on the high-level "rules" than the technobabble.

Er wait, why is this true? If I sent a message to someone, and they sent the FTL message back instantaneously, I would still get it after I sent the message, as I would have to wait for my message to travel to them before they sent it back.

No, you wouldn't; at least not in all IRFs observing the exchange. In some IRFs the message will arrive before it is sent, and one of the fundamental laws of the universe is that no IRF is privileged, meaning if causality is violated in one it is violated in all and spacetime asplodes.

*sigh* Please don't make me do the math out. It's not hard but it's an algebra grind. 

Battuta, sure it would make the universe asplode.  But then the developer running the simulation could just revert universe to the last saved restore point, update the code to handle it and off we go.  Heck if we're lucky one of the other races already caused the issue to be debugged.

[Unknown Target]

Ok, in a past shoutfest I had with Battuta, it was ultimately agreed that FTL travel and/or communication wouldn't work because it would break the universe.

The thing that caused the trouble was that if something at the destination could send an FTL signal back right away, it could/would arrive "before" the original signal was sent. So now I'm thinking... could a set of rules be devised which would avoid space-time paradoxen? Perhaps something with teleportation/jumps?

Lets here some ideas!

Preferably focusing more on the high-level "rules" than the technobabble.

Er wait, why is this true? If I sent a message to someone, and they sent the FTL message back instantaneously, I would still get it after I sent the message, as I would have to wait for my message to travel to them before they sent it back.

No, you wouldn't; at least not in all IRFs observing the exchange. In some IRFs the message will arrive before it is sent, and one of the fundamental laws of the universe is that no IRF is privileged, meaning if causality is violated in one it is violated in all and spacetime asplodes.

*sigh* Please don't make me do the math out. It's not hard but it's an algebra grind. 

Er...what's an IRF?

[Shivan Hunter]

Starslayer: You sure the devs are competent? They may not be

Also, just because something can't accelerate to greater than c (such that γ > infinity), doesn't mean FTL can't exist. There is still a possibility of an Alcubierre drive, which has been mentioned and just fraks with the reference frames, or teleporters (wormholes, subspace, etc). So the naysayers can stop worrying.

Here's another perspective: If people can find a way to kill each other with it, they'll probably figure out how to make it happen.

UT: IRF = Inertial Reference Frame.