Author Topic: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist  (Read 4087 times)

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Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
What if we stored players online stats online, on some FS2.net server or something, and then everytime a person went online, the game would compare what stats they had on their computer to their stats online, and if there was a difference then it could download their info from the server.
This could remove the ability for players to change their recorded stats at all. I think that's what you meant by "hacked files".

[Edit by Shade - This was split from http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=52261.0]
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 10:32:50 am by Shade »

 
Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature Requests
It's not.
Hacked files means people who have ships, missions, tables or anything similar that effects gameplay different from the server.
Changing your pilots points is irrelevant because they're only copied-locally, not stored locally, the moment you log on any fake stats you've inserted are deleted automatically.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 
Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature Requests
Ok, well I don't know how we could tell if someone is using hacked files, but I know that we could fix it all, although slow game load times, by having the game download all the files that are required for that particular online game from the server hosting it.
Kind of like what Halo: Reach does, it downloads the world and gametype regardless of whether they already exist on your Xbox whenever you play Matchmaking.

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature Requests
No. Downloading missions takes long enough, and they're tiny. Downloading everything would include tables, effects, MODELS and TEXTURES... we'd be waiting for hours just to play a single mission.

 

Offline Shade

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Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature Requests
Quote
Ok, well I don't know how we could tell if someone is using hacked files

That check is already in place. Checksums for the tables are compared to a set stored on the FS2NetD server, and if they don't match up, it throws a warning to the players about hacked files. And as for models and the like, that's irrelevant as such things as collision checks are done on the host machine anyway, not clientside.

Also, this particular discussion is not really relevant to feature requests as checks for hacked assets are already in place and downloading everything every game isn't feasible, so splitting it into a seperate topic.
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Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Well, if we can tell if someone is using hacked files, why not just prevent them from joining the game?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Well, if we can tell if someone is using hacked files, why not just prevent them from joining the game?

Because using hacked tables isn't always a bad thing. For example, anyone playing Wings of Dawn or Blue Planet multiplayer will always get a hacked tables warning.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Well, if we can tell if someone is using hacked files, why not just prevent them from joining the game?

Ask that again once we have more than a dozen users.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
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Let there be monsters and let there be pain
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Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
A dozen people active on this thread?

 
Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Cuz they play 6 hours a day every day right?
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 
Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Hm... You have a point there, by doing this we could prevent a lot of players from playing... What if we had an option available to someone when they set up a server, whether or not to kick anyone with hacked files?

 

Offline Shade

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Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
It simply isn't necessary, as the current system works fine. Hosts can already kick players, and players already get a warning about people using hacked tables. The only thing that needs to change is for the hacked tables warning to be displayed for the host as well as for the clients, which it currently isn't. And a request to that effect has already been posted to the Wishlist thread, courtesy of KyadCK.

So sure, an option to do the kicking automatically might occasionally be of minor utility. But a very important thing to keep in mind when asking for new features is to not waste the coder's time with things that are redundant or of very minor usefulness. There aren't that many of them, and what time they do have should be spent on stuff that will make a difference.
Report FS_Open bugs with Mantis  |  Find the latest FS_Open builds Here  |  Interested in FRED? Check out the Wiki's FRED Portal | Diaspora: Website / Forums
"Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh ****ing great. 2200 references to entry->index and no idea which is the one that ****ed up" - Karajorma
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct." - Niels Bohr
<Cobra|> You play this mission too intelligently.

 
Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
But the host has to be able to be there and do that. What if someone is hosting a dedicated server, and isn't there all the time. Maybe I understand things wrong, could you explain what having a hacked table does?

 

Offline Shade

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Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Whoever first joins a dedicated server (also known as a standalone) counts as the host for that session, and has the ability to kick people. So that is not an issue.

Hacked tables simply means that the tables which tell the game everything it needs to know about the stats of ships, various AI settings and metric tonne of other things have been changed from the FS2 default. This may be innocent, like someone adding extra backgrounds to stars.tbl, or intentional and unavoidable until the new set is validated, as was the case for the MediaVPs for a long time and is still the case for the BP and WoD multi projects until they get their own little corners of FS2NetD to call their own. And these cases are why preventing hacked tables altogether would be BAD.

On the other hand, some players might indeed alter their tables for the purpose of cheating. But the thing is, they gets them nowhere: While people with hacked tables are allowed to play (unless the host kicks them), they stats will not be saved. So make an uberfighter that can slay anything 100x over and do just that in a mission? Your pilot will still have 0 registered kills. So that kind of cheating is already prevented.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 04:40:46 pm by Shade »
Report FS_Open bugs with Mantis  |  Find the latest FS_Open builds Here  |  Interested in FRED? Check out the Wiki's FRED Portal | Diaspora: Website / Forums
"Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh ****ing great. 2200 references to entry->index and no idea which is the one that ****ed up" - Karajorma
"We are all agreed that your theory is crazy. The question that divides us is whether it is crazy enough to have a chance of being correct." - Niels Bohr
<Cobra|> You play this mission too intelligently.

 
Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Well, if we can tell if someone is using hacked files, why not just prevent them from joining the game?

Because using hacked tables isn't always a bad thing. For example, anyone playing Wings of Dawn or Blue Planet multiplayer will always get a hacked tables warning.

Ok, just saw this post. I guess I don't understand the whole "hacked tables" thing.

 
Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Ok, I didn't know that it worked that way. Was it like that back when Parrallax hosted everything?

 
Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
They didn't host everything.
And yes, it was like it is now back then too.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 
Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Ok, I didn't mean "EVERYTHING" I meant how PSN or Live sets stuff up with the players, but then a console is chosen to host it.

 

Offline Mura

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Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Are you going to cover the costs? Current system works fine except for some minor stuff, if someone gets hacked tables, the right thing to do is help them fix it.
Most of the times is that they haven't updated to retail 1.2 or that they have a wrong mod or set of mvps on.
Signed, me

 
Re: Hacked files discussion - split from Feature wishlist
Now's a good time to say something that I probably should've made clear earlier.
I don't understand what we all mean by "hacked tables", see I always think about that meaning that someone went in and changed something on their own to give them some sort of an advantage. Perhaps I'm wrong.