Author Topic: OT-Religion...  (Read 134765 times)

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Offline Pera

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Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
but I'm sure that some others will come up soon to argue with that. ;) :D


Sorry, but no chance. If a person(I'm referring to this Blitz guy, not you :) ) doesn't even read the goddamn thread he's posting to, his posts aren't worth replying.

As for your post(s), Blizt_lighting, here's a really short overview:

Read my lips: "JUST BECAUSE THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT FOOLPROOF, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT CREATIONISM IS CORRECT, DO NOT WASTE TIME ARGUING AGAINST EVOLUTION, BUT INSTEAD FIND SOME PROOF FOR CREATIONISM"

Sorry for shouting, but this point has already been made several times throughout this thread.

And as for your links: Sorry to say this, but the sites you are referring to, are bull****. If you really take them seriously, get some help. But first of all, read the whole thread all over again, and then try to argue, until then, shut up.

Oh BTW, what makes you think the old testament was necessarily written before the new one?
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Re: For those who say scientists dont believe in creationism...
Quote
Originally posted by Blitz_Lightning

Memberships and subscriptions over the past few years have been steady with a total of over 1700 worldwide. About 650 are voting members. Foreign members/subscribers number about 250.

Hoo Boy. :rolleyes: ....and so the lies spread.....
« Last Edit: May 22, 2002, 06:34:00 am by 710 »
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What do you think all the evidence from archaelogy, etc are?
Evidence for creationism, that the bible is true!
Evidence for design? Did you take a look at the probabilities for the simplest organism? 1 in 10^7800? That to me seems like evidence for design. Take a look at the properties of substances such as carbon, water. Take a look, if the amount of matter in the universe varied by 1 in a trillion, life couldnt exist.
--The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out

 
Answering  if took a look at some of the pages I gave for creationism, you'd find tons of information for creationism... take ATP  for example... The evidence from the radiometric dating for an earth <10000 yrs old.... The moon... The sun... did you even look at my other posts? lol... nm, dont answer me :rolleyes:
--The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out

 

Offline Fineus

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Can you try and keep your points in one post as opposed to spreading them over several please? Thanks :)

 
I went to your site.
Everything is just more Church lies.
You oviously have no grasp on logic at all. :(
Do you believe In Santa Claus too? :eek:
Maybe the Sandman? :ha:
You need to grow out of those bible fairy tales.
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Non-coding ("junk") DNA is Functional!

Electron microscopy of Cryptomonad
 
A recent study has shown that eukaryotic non-coding DNA (also called "secondary DNA) is functional as a structural element in the nucleus. Previously, there were two evolutionary theories that attempted to describe the reason for the existence of non-coding DNA One theory stated that non-coding DNA was "junk" that consisted of randomly-produced sequences that had lost their coding ability or partially duplicated genes that were non-functional. The second theory stated that non-coding DNA was "selfish", in that it consisted of DNA that preferentially replicated more efficiently that coding DNA, even though it provided no selective advantage (in fact was somewhat detrimental in that it was parasitic).
The new study examined the genomes of the single-celled photosynthetic organisms know as Crytomonads. These organisms exist as vastly different cell sizes, with the nucleus being proportional in size to that of the cell. Researchers discovered that the amount of non-coding DNA was proportional to the size of the nucleus, suggesting that more non-coding DNA was required in larger nuclei. As an added proof, the nucleomorph, a small piece of DNA contained within the plastid that codes for itself and photosynthetic function, was not changed in size, despite changes in cell size and nuclear content.
The new study is a stunning rebuttal to the evolutionary theories that attempt to discredit design and promote concepts such as "junk" DNA and "selfish" DNA. According to the authors:

"Furthermore, the present lack of significant amounts of nucleomorph secondary DNA confirms that selection can readily eliminate functionless nuclear DNA, refuting 'selfish' and 'junk' theories of secondary DNA"

Beaton, M.J. and T. Cavalier-Smith. 1999. Eukaryotic non-coding DNA is functional: evidence from the differential scaling of cryptomonal genomes. Proc. R. Soc. Lond. B. 266:2053-2059.

Related Story - "When 'Junk' DNA Isn't Junk"
 Design of Proteins
Scientists have been attempting to be able to determine a protein's native conformation (or folding) by examining the amino acid sequence. Despite years of study, the ability to do this using even the fastest computers is beyond our reach. For example, for a typical 100 amino acid protein (moderate to small in size) could exist in any of 3200 possible backbone configurations. Using a super fast computer (10^12 computations/sec) it would take 10^80 seconds, which exceed the age of the universe by a factor of 60 orders of magnitude! This fact alone may give you a better perspective on the mind of God.
IBM is now making a new supercomputer to attempt to address the protein folding problem. A $100 million research initiative will build a supercomputer 500 times more powerful than the current record holder and be able to process 10^15 computations/sec. Dubbed "Blue Gene," the computer will include over 1 million processors, each capable of 1 billion operations per second. Using special estimation techniques, the computer may be able to solve the protein folding of a small protein in about a year. However, at the end of that time, researchers may discover that it didn't work. If the estimations are not close enough to actual conformations, the folding may be incorrect. Calculating the exact folding of all positions would require 10^77 seconds, only 57 orders of magnitude longer than the age of the universe. This is what we in research call a long-term project!
--The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out

 
Ok Thunder, I'll try to keep em in one post...

If people want some general and scientific rebuttals against evolution, here they are: -

General Rebuttal

Scientific Rebuttal

:)
--The measure of a man's character is what he would do if he knew he never would be found out

 

Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Quote
Originally posted by Blitz_Lightning
What do you think all the evidence from archaelogy, etc are?
Evidence for creationism, that the bible is true!
Evidence for design? Did you take a look at the probabilities for the simplest organism? 1 in 10^7800? That to me seems like evidence for design. Take a look at the properties of substances such as carbon, water. Take a look, if the amount of matter in the universe varied by 1 in a trillion, life couldnt exist.


As someone who's in constant contact with archaeology I can say that there is no archaeological evidence whatsoever that supports creationism or intelligent design.

As for the rest: go here, it's an index that debunks all you've said

As for more works found on christ than on julius ceasar: doesn't mean that christ existed. (mayb he did, maybe he didn't), only that people wrote more about christ than about Caesar. Also the fact that christian theology has been active for 2000 years probably doesn't have anyhing to with it.

Or to use your reasoning but with different characters: just because we now find more writing about Luke Skywalker than we do about Caesar must mean that Luke Skywalker is a real person...

Intelligence may be able to cross the distance between stars, but stupidity (as displayed by certain people, coincidentally all in the creationist camp) surely knows no boundaries....

Have fun trying to convince the scientific community (which aren't that gullible as your usual targets) and come back here when you can make a decent scientific case. Toodaloo.
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Offline Crazy_Ivan80

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Quote
Originally posted by Blitz_Lightning


Scientific Rebuttal

:)


first line of article:

"I AM NOT A CREATIONIST,"  

icon next to article:



(could someone fix this? Don't know how.)

He effectively succeeded in destroying credability on the first line.

Note: He bases himself also on Michael Behe, a known scientist but also creationist. Important to know is that all of M. Behe's scientific works (e.g. those up for peer review) support evolution and no creationism. Why? Because the evidence creationist claim to have isn't able to stand up against peer-review. Ergo, creationists resort to convincing the gullible masses, those that know little or nothing about evolution. These are the only people they can convince as th others are too smart.
It came from outer space! What? Dunno, but it's going back on the next flight!
Proud member of Hard Light Productions. The last, best hope for Freespace...
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Quote
Originally posted by Blitz_Lightning


If people want some general and scientific rebuttals against evolution, here they are: -

General Rebuttal

Scientific Rebuttal

:)


You see people, "Einstein" here cant handle the fact that finally, we have proof that Religion is bull****. He and people like him are now trying to spread the lies and at the same time, they are trying to organize all the other liars and they are trying to brainwash the world (again).

Evolution is cleansing Religion from the human race.
So give up and let nature take it's course.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2002, 07:21:48 am by 710 »
Watching from the background since 17 April 2002.

 

Offline Pera

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Quote
Originally posted by Blitz_Lightning
Evidence for creationism, that the bible is true!


:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I think you understood what I thought about that :D

About Jesus:

Sure he could have existed, in fact, he most likely was a real person, but _not_a_son_of_"god"_, period

You know, I've actually argued with some creationists who made good points and were relatively sane, you're not one of them.
One is never alone with a rubberduck - Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy

The Apocalypse Project

 
nobody knows for sure what happened at the beginning of the universe.  nobody knows for sure how humans came into being.  

all we have are guesses and theories, with maybe a little evidence supporting wither side.  

i really don't think anyone will be converting as a result of this thread.  nor is it likely that anyone will be convinced of a certain viewpoint.

 

Offline CP5670

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Right; the purple dragon thing posted earlier is just as plausible. We should therefore stick to explanations that fit in with that which we directly sense and our currently accepted ideas to prevent from reinventing things when it may or may not be necessary.

Quote
When one sees Christ as he is portrayed truly in the gospel, there shines forth a spiritual light that is a self-authenticating. This is “the light of the knowledge of the glory of God” (2 Corinthians 4:6), and it is as immediately perceived by the Spirit-awakened heart as light is perceived by the open eye. The eye does not argue that there is light. It sees light.


The same could be said about Adolf Hitler and the Mein Kampf. There shines forth a spiritual light from this gospel. The light of the knowledge and glory of the Führer. The eye sees this light. :D

Quote
Read my lips: "JUST BECAUSE THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION IS NOT FOOLPROOF, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT CREATIONISM IS CORRECT, DO NOT WASTE TIME ARGUING AGAINST EVOLUTION, BUT INSTEAD FIND SOME PROOF FOR CREATIONISM"

Sorry for shouting, but this point has already been made several times throughout this thread.


I agree completely. I bet he will still miss it, though. :p :D

Quote
And as for your links: Sorry to say this, but the sites you are referring to, are bull****. If you really take them seriously, get some help. But first of all, read the whole thread all over again, and then try to argue, until then, shut up.


My thoughts exactly. But look at where he is getting that information: sites with names like "Institute of Creation Research." :rolleyes: These things are no different than the Flat Earth Society; there is an organization for just about every wacky idea these days. :p

Quote
Likewise.


LOL, it was 7 in the morning when I posted that, and I had been up all night. :D
« Last Edit: May 22, 2002, 09:55:38 am by 296 »

 

Offline Top Gun

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Quote
Originally posted by DemonInGray
all we have are guesses and theories, with maybe a little evidence supporting wither side.  

Don't be bloody stupid, there's mountains of evidence for evolution and nothing but faith for crationists.

 

Offline Bobboau

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momy, what does filabustering mean?

was anyone desputing the past existance of Jesus?

you're little thing on "junk" DNA, what was that suposed to prove?

do you think the moon could have been formed in a maner similar to all the other moons (and \or planets) in the solar system posably?

you have yet to prove to me you have a firm understanding of how evolution works,
and it does work, wether or not it is the cause of all life on earth is the point in despute here,
but evolution does work now, I have seen it with my own eyes

if you are still not beleveing me when I say evolution works, next time you get some sort of bacterial infection and the doctor gives you antibiodics I want you to only take them untill you feel beter, then stop, if you start feeling sick again take some more, when you run out go to the doctor and tell him you're still sick and ask for more, if he asks you if you did this don't tell him, becase he has been brainwashed by us anti-relegon nuts and will think the bacteria are evolving to the antibiotics, do this untill the medicen no longer works then get a diferent type of antibiotic, do the same thing untill this new medicen stops working, and continue this paturn untill there are no more new antibiodics left,
then i want you to see if God will save you, and I want you to pray with all the people how have educated you over the years and all the people who think like you, be sure to get in real close,
if you do this it should provide a winner between evolution and religon :)

(note: don't do this, it would cause a super resistant bacteria, becase evolution is real, and likely kill you and everyone around you)
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Offline Stryke 9

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GAAAH!

IF YOU CAN'T HAVE A RATIONAL DEBATE ABOUT EVOLUTION/CREATION, SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!!

Both sides here are being imbeciles. Seriously, this was a good topic for a while. Now it's just crap, descending into flamewar, and frankly none of you are evidently capable of reading each others' posts in the first place. I give up. The Earth is flat, I'm right because I say I am and I'm the final authority on everything, and thought beyond sorting of known facts has no place in life.

 

Offline Top Gun

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WOW :eek: Bobboau, I never knew you had it in you :jaw:



The fact that evangelists manage to find a partner (with them being so sexist) and reproduce is the biggest flaw in evolution I've ever found.


I have nothing against Christians who are willing to accept the proven and adapt their belief system so it's implementable in an intelligent age (I give them my respect), even though I remain firmly agnostic myself, Just those who have blind, unquestioning faith that can't be wrong.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2002, 03:34:15 pm by 266 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Top Gun


Don't be bloody stupid, there's mountains of evidence for evolution and nothing but faith for crationists.


you misunderstood me, i'm sorry, i should have been clearer.

i didn't mean their is little proof for evolution.  as was said in another post, the constantly evolving bacteria is an example.  what i meant was that there is little proof for a scientific version of spontaneous generation, the origin of life.  similarly, there is little to no evidence that supports a creationist version of life's beginning as well.

Quote
Originally posted by DemonInGray
nobody knows for sure what happened at the beginning of the universe.  nobody knows for sure how humans came into being.

all we have are guesses and theories, with maybe a little evidence supporting wither side.  
 


substitute the word "life" for "humans".  i know humans evolved, what i don't know is how there came to be life in the first place.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
GAAAH!

IF YOU CAN'T HAVE A RATIONAL DEBATE ABOUT EVOLUTION/CREATION, SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!!

Both sides here are being imbeciles. Seriously, this was a good topic for a while. Now it's just crap, descending into flamewar, and frankly none of you are evidently capable of reading each others' posts in the first place. I give up. The Earth is flat, I'm right because I say I am and I'm the final authority on everything, and thought beyond sorting of known facts has no place in life.

:( Oh boo hoo :(
Nobody's flaming anyone
Watching from the background since 17 April 2002.