Author Topic: Beauty everyone here can appreciate  (Read 47796 times)

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Well, to their credit, I did ask them to share their thoughts if they could stomach reading the whole post...  I've learned to not take it personally when someone disagrees with me, however vehemently. It's only when insults and personal attacks start to fly that I have a problem.
Could we with ink the ocean fill, and were the skies of parchment made
Were every stalk on earth a quill, and every man a scribe by trade
To write the love of God above, would drain the ocean dry
Nor could the scroll contain the whole, though stretched from sky to sky!

 

Offline Snail

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Can we not

  

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Well, to their credit, I did ask them to share their thoughts if they could stomach reading the whole post...  I've learned to not take it personally when someone disagrees with me, however vehemently. It's only when insults and personal attacks start to fly that I have a problem.

you're a BUTT

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Well it sure is lovely to see my words twisted up into a nice little bow.

You know, let's dissect this a little more. Looking back through the thread I see no ****ting whatsoever. Let's review. Most of the posts are about how the sky is pretty with a nice digression from Herra about skyboxes.

The only three posts that could possibly qualify as ****ting are those from myself, DarthGeek, and Nemesis. Nemesis linked a disagreeing viewpoint in a polite fashion. DarthGeek politely presented his own take on it, making it quite explicit it was a personal statement. I expressed my own views on the night sky in symmetry to G0atmaster's, and did not do so in a particularly rude matter.

I suppose you could argue Bobbau got involved too but mostly just said 'if you don't want to debate about it, fine'.

So there was hardly an issue at all instead you felt the need to make one. That's pretty crappy, kind of self-defeating don't you think?
I didn't really have a problem with what Nemesis said, because he did make it very low-key (and besides, I don't think the sentiment G0atmaster was expressing necessarily has much to do with irreducible complexity as covered in that video, but whatever).  Honestly, it was your post that made me raise my eyebrows the most, much more because of your tone than what you were saying in it.  No offense, but you've had a habit of taking on a holier-than-thou (lulz) attitude when expressing certain opinions, pulling a "This is how things really are and what you think is stupid and wrong herp" sentiment.  I'd generally qualify that attitude as "****ting," and that's the same attitude I saw in your original post.  There are many beliefs I encounter on a daily basis that I find to be rather silly, but I recognize that it's not always appropriate to state as much.

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Only people who agree with me have the right to express their beliefs? One side gets to say OH PRETTY HERE IS WHAT I THINK, the other side gets OH PRETTY?

Nice. I wouldn't stand for that if it were your side getting the short end, pretty hypocritical of you not to take the same stance.
Yes because that is exactly what I implied by what I posted derp.

Let's take a little look-see at what would happen if this all went down in a face-to-face conversation.  If someone talking to you showed you these images and made a personal belief statement that you didn't happen to agree with, would you launch into a massive "This is why you're wrong" explanation?  Probably not.  You'd just let it slide, say something like, "Yeah, that looks amazing," and move on.  Why is it that religion is widely considered as one of those "taboo" topics in general conversation?  Because it's just about always simply not worth it to get into a back-and-forth over deeply-held personal beliefs.  It just incites friction and bad vibes.  In the same vein, posting something like "inb4 ****storm" or a counter to what the OP expressed here is just asking for the thread to get out-of-hand, when simply ignoring that aspect of it would have resulting in it garnering a few responses and then falling off the first page.  It's not about one side not being "allowed" to express their own beliefs...it's about recognizing when it's a good time to speak up, and when it would be better to leave well enough alone.  I think this thread definitely qualified as the latter.

(Also note that, despite my personal beliefs, I generally find statements like G0atmaster made to be counterproductive at best, so I'm not trying to argue his "side" here.)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
I can't see anything in your arguments that would not apply equally to G0atmaster's post.

I don't think you'd disagree with that, but taken further from there, if you're posting to express your opinion of annoyance that people posted their opinions of annoyance in response to someone's opinion, doesn't that leave you pretty much in the same boat as everyone else?

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.it's about recognizing when it's a good time to speak up, and when it would be better to leave well enough alone.  I think this thread definitely qualified as the latter.

This applies to post #1 as much as to every other post in the thread including yours. You can either argue the entire thread (barring the pretty link) should never have happened, or you can let it go, but you don't get the middle ground.

Once the can of worms is opened we all get to play early bird. You don't get to be selective in condemning that.

edit:

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I'd generally qualify that attitude as "****ting," and that's the same attitude I saw in your original post.

Do you seriously think it's any different from the attitude I see watching a bunch of Bible-thumpers crooning about their reappropriated pagan beliefs? Perhaps made doubly frustrating by my own efforts to illustrate that most Christians are sane reasonable people?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2011, 05:19:34 pm by General Battuta »

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Metaphorically your entire argument boils down to 'wars are bad and ugly, therefore no one should defend themselves in wars (but we'll give the guy who starts the war a pass)'.

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
you're a BUTT

Oh please...  What'd you say, Jabba?  :wakka:

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Of course I'm in the same boat as anyone else.  To think otherwise would be silly.

Yes, in an ideal world, I do wish that G0atmaster would have limited his original post to the images themselves.  However, I don't see that him "opening the can" gives everyone else free rein to dive right in and start wriggling around.  We could have all chosen to just leave the can cracked a bit and not pried it the rest of the way open.  But hey, look what fun ensued instead!

 

Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Metaphorically your entire argument boils down to 'wars are bad and ugly, therefore no one should defend themselves in wars (but we'll give the guy who starts the war a pass)'.

Pretty much this.

On a related note, wars are bad and ugly so can we all sign a truce and talk about pretty starfields?

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Color correction :colbert:

(but it is gorgeous, i think the rotation is more impressive than the colors anyway)

 

Offline The E

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Of course I'm in the same boat as anyone else.  To think otherwise would be silly.

Yes, in an ideal world, I do wish that G0atmaster would have limited his original post to the images themselves.  However, I don't see that him "opening the can" gives everyone else free rein to dive right in and start wriggling around.  We could have all chosen to just leave the can cracked a bit and not pried it the rest of the way open.  But hey, look what fun ensued instead!

Mongoose, he invited people to post their own opinions here. And yes, that does give everyone who is so inclined leave to post their opinions, even those that disagree with the original sentiment expressed here. It's only when things really get abusive that we should moderate this.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 
Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
As far as I can tell, there are very few posts even debating God.  This has mostly been people flaming each other about.. well... flaming.  Let's just take it down a notch.  I'm not butthurt that people disagree with me, and would actually enjoy an opportunity to respond.
Could we with ink the ocean fill, and were the skies of parchment made
Were every stalk on earth a quill, and every man a scribe by trade
To write the love of God above, would drain the ocean dry
Nor could the scroll contain the whole, though stretched from sky to sky!

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
What would that actually do?

The odds of you changing your beliefs are minimal. It's possible you'd learn a bit about the way the universe works, if you weren't aware of it already, but as long as you're not voting against teaching evolution in schools or campaigning against the LHC, what's the payoff of trying to bring you to a more empirical outlook?

 
Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate





 
Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Because it's not only my views that can change.  And because I'm a man that seeks the truth, whatever form it takes.   I became a Christian because I was literally left with no good alternative.  And if by having a thread on the matter I could come to find what other like-minded individuals (not in that they believe as I do, but in that they are open to discuss and seek the truth as I am) believe and why, I am enriched by the conversations to be had.
Could we with ink the ocean fill, and were the skies of parchment made
Were every stalk on earth a quill, and every man a scribe by trade
To write the love of God above, would drain the ocean dry
Nor could the scroll contain the whole, though stretched from sky to sky!

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Well you're literally free to believe whatever you please about God - there is no scientific experiment that could speak to the existence of an omnipotent being.

Just be aware that the stars in the sky, the eyes you use to look at them, the universe they're drifting in, the emotions you experience when you see them, and the feelings that drive you to speak about your wonder to your wife all have a scientific explanation. That doesn't rule out God - God could be an excellent clockmaker.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Didn't you know? Discussions aren't about learning stuff or garnering other opinions, they're about proving the other guy wrong in front of the whole community so that they will worship you as a God among men!!!. ;)

Seriously though, trying to mix esoterical concepts such as Love and biological concepts such as procreation can be a very awkward subject, humans are far from the only animals that will fight and even die for their mate or children, as Battuta says, the actions and reactions can be accounted for, but then there is something more, an unidentifiable something, but it is not measurable or testable because it is a perception more than a physical 'thing'. Science, in particular, isn't all that interested on stuff that cannot be measured or proven, because Love is a difficult thing to define, it varies from person to person. We lift ourselves up onto a high-horse because of our ability to feel love, but the chances are most people would be hard pushed to define what it actually is.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
I disagree, I bet we'll be able to pin down love pretty precisely (and engineer it to arbitrary tolerances) within the next thousand years. Maybe the next hundred.

 

Offline Flipside

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
Heh, there are drugs even now that are called 'Love Drugs' because they produce arousal, for many that is synonymous with being in love, but perceptions change throughout your own life, at first you'll usually be in love with a girl because (a) She is physically attractive, and (b) She does things to you that you enjoy. As you get older, it gets more about dependibility and support, of knowing that the person you love will stand by you when things get unpleasant, so even to a single individual, the personal definition of Love changes over the years.


 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Beauty everyone here can appreciate
I'm not talking about arousal/dopamine response, I'm talking about long-term, vasopressin/oxytocin mediated 'true love'.