[Zacam]

As you know (or not), we (the FSU) have been working through quite a lot of stuff. It's taking its time and there is a lot of it, but rest assured, it's going to be worth it.

While you all have been waiting, you'll have noticed (or not) that I put screenshots up of both the Medusa and Boanerges. (Yay!) What wasn't covered though, were some changes made in the POF, which is what I'd like to discuss now.

In the Image I pasted together below, you can see the arrangement of the old "Retail" Secondary firing points and the proposed (and current) New Secondary firing points.




This was done in order to visually match each model, to their respective Capacity allotments in the Retail Tables. In the case of the Boanerges, the first "Bank" in the table has less capacity than the remaining two banks. But the retail model put the firing point for the third bank (the same capacity as the second bank) above the cockpit, making the visual representation of the loadout awkward to try and explain.

Same with the Medusa. Bank 1 has less capacity than either Banks 2 and 3 (which are evenly matched) but the bank firing slots suggested (to me at any rate) that they were identical. And rather than mucking about the tables to re-oder, or cause imbalance by altering capacities more evenly, it was decided to re-orrder the firing points and their bank assignments.

The capacities are still identical, so balance wise nothing has changed. Merely the representation of where they come from is altered slightly to make for a more visually balanced Loadout selection screen.

But rather than just spring this on people and have lot's of hair pulling and name calling, I figured I'd just get that out of the way now if there is to be any -before- we get close to tightening up the ship for the stormy waters of Release. (Relax, that's still quite a ways away still, sadly. We just have too much awesome to work with!)

Discuss, but politely please. If you're only comment can be summed up as "This is a stupid issue to have", I'll point out that this is not GenDisc and you can go there instead.

[Vertigo 7]

so long as it can pew pew then it werks fer me

[sigtau]

Not complaining, as long as it makes functional sense then I see no issue with it.

[Shivan Hunter]

The Boa's firing points should at least match up with the holes on the texture. I like how the Medusa's banks have been balanced so that one is no longer exclusively on one side. Good work though

[Qent]

Woah there. This is definitely balance changing, albeit not by much. Perhaps release as a separate pack, a la the table "fix" project a while back?

[SypheDMar]

I'm a bit worried about the Medua's change in particular. Although I have no idea why [V] would put the 1st and 2nd banks on their sides (laziness or design [perhaps they figured that a bomb wouldn't look fit when split into 2 smaller chunks.]), splitting the first firing point in two would affect gameplay and balance. Although the mediavps is a mod, many campaigns are dependent on it and will continue to be because it acts as an upgrade to retail. For these reasons, I wouldn't want the firing points in the mediavps to be changed. However, I would encourage an optional vp that includes these changes just like the 'No Animated' vp.

But if the firing points do change without it being optional, I won't complain. It might take a bit longer to familiarize myself with it, but it looks like it'll be easier to use and, perhaps, less frustrating.

EDIT: ninja'd

[mjn.mixael]

I would like to know exactly how much of a gameplay and balance change we are talking about.

[BrotherBryon]

Cool, Not sure why this would have all that big of an effect on balancing and question the whole make it a separate VP thing.

The capacities are still identical, so balance wise nothing has changed. Merely the representation of where they come from is altered slightly to make for a more visually balanced Loadout selection screen.

[Snail]

I don't really think this is necessary. After all, the missiles are huge anyway and some don't even through in the holes (you have a dirty mind). Linking the number of firepoints to the capacity seems a little pointless.

[Trivial Psychic]

The only balance issue comes down to symmetrical fire.  For example, when you're flying something like a Valkyrie, and you pump some Furies out in twin-fire mode, they shoot out of both sides, making it a bit easier to aim, and hit fighters.  The Athena on the other hand has completely segregated banks, so each weapon bank will only fire from one side or the other, but never both at the same time.  The changes to the 2 ships in question result in fire-point mirroring, so that in twin-fire mode, you'll get symmetrical fire.  That's all it comes down to.

[Qent]

Yep. Though after checking the wiki, it's not so bad since neither ship can carry Tempests.

[Timerlane]

I have to say those used to bug me a little. The Artemis(es) had the small 'self-defense' bank fire from the little holes on the outside of the 'intakes', but the Boa didn't do that with the overhead bay(another reason to subconsciously dislike it? ).

I think I just handwaved the Medusa's issue away by supposing there might be some large internal component on the right 'pod' taking up space where extra missile capacity was on the left 'pod'.

[Rodo]

Seems like a lot of research was made in this matter, from what I can see in the images the new changes make a lot of sence, so I'm kinda supporting this.

[MatthTheGeek]

Supporting too. Like mentioned above, neither of those ships can carry tempests in retail, so balance alteration is virtually non-existent. Mods that would give em dumbfires are that, mods, and hence they have the power to alter the firing points back to retail config if they wish so.

[Snail]

Any chance of getting them to match up with the actual missile ports?

[Mongoose]

Yeah, if this is just for aspect-types, especially bombs, moving the points a foot or two shouldn't really affect anything.

[Goober5000]

I support this.  Zacam clearly put some thought into the banks, and changing the banks doesn't change important variables like how many missiles you can fire at one time, etc.  They're for aspect-seeking bombs, so bank placement matters less than it would for dumbfires.  Finally, the bank shuffling makes logical sense and doesn't affect gameplay the way it would if, for example, you shuffled around the firing points for the Ursa's two primary banks.

Finally, it is A-1 SUPAR that Zacam posted a thread about this before release.

[Parias]

I'm a big fan of this change and definitely support it.

[Nohiki]

I like this because of tempests, but if the bomb/missile is a seeker, it really doesn't make much difference imho.

[Rodo]

I like this because of tempests, but if the bomb/missile is a seeker, it really doesn't make much difference imho.

that's the idea, that it makes no difference is a key factor to being an aceptable change.