[CT27]

As long as the Shivans/Vishnans don't show up elsewhere, it was probably the right idea to send in more destroyers.

But, you can't be that sure that they won't turn up unexpectedly too...

That's why it was a gamble.  IF the Shivans/Vishnans don't show up elsewhere or in Sol, then it was a good tactical move.

[BritishShivans]

And also, stop with the "you're wrong stuff" thing please? Although I'm guessing that no one believes that Ubuntu is the path to freedom and is "100%". But, still, people can have opinions different to yours, you know. And that doesn't make them the "wrong stuff".

i'm not saying that you're wrong

i'm saying that blwoing up earth would be an absolutely horrible thing to do and i really hope you don't actually think it would be nice if that happened

but thankfully it appears that it doesn't

[MatthTheGeek]

Whether it would be nice or not is entirely irrelevant to the matter at hand. The GTVA can't blow up Earth because it would be a political suicide. That's all there is to it.

The GTVA does not consider tactical options about whether they're "nice" or not. If blowing Earth up was a sound option, I'm sure they'd do it. But it isn't.

[Phantom Hoover]

Hm...just a quick run on Google...I like the notion of Shambala being a protective zone...maybe that the vishnans can't maintain their connection to subspace or something crazy like that.

Well, there is also this little gem about Shambhala in Buddhist teachings.

Shambhala is ruled over by Lord Maitreya. The Kalachakra prophesies that when the world declines into war and greed, and all is lost, the 25th Kalki king will emerge from Shambhala with a huge army to vanquish "Dark Forces" and usher in a worldwide Golden Age. Using calculations from the Kalachakra Tantra, scholars such as Alex Berzin put this date at 2424 AD.

Holy **** that's huge.

[CT27]

One thing the GTVA (Steele more specifically in this case I suppose) could do to help win the war would be to reveal to the Vasudans that the UEF/Fedayeen is working with Hammer Of Light agents.  Khonsu probably wouldn't like that.


This is, of course, assuming GTVI/SOC ever find out about this.

[gloowa]

This is, of course, assuming GTVI/SOC ever find out about this.

That has me thinking - why would SOC need to actually find out about it? Steele just needs to say that they are. There is no one that will question that.

[niffiwan]

I thought Steele already knew about it, wasn't there a line in a command briefing (or was it the Dreamscape?) saying that SOC was purging the HoL agents from the Terran fleet (I say Terran because I don't know if this would affect the Vasudan vessels in Sol or not...)

[crizza]

Yeah, Steele certainly knows about the HoL.
And I thought BP fiction labeled the HoL as some kind of...esoteric sect after the first war, not being a whole underground organisation.

[Klaustrophobia]

I thought Steele already knew about it, wasn't there a line in a command briefing (or was it the Dreamscape?) saying that SOC was purging the HoL agents from the Terran fleet (I say Terran because I don't know if this would affect the Vasudan vessels in Sol or not...)

he might not know that they are HOL, just that they are vasudan spies.  he's had UEF sympathizers in his own ranks, it would come of no surprise that there would be some in the vasudans' as well.  and likely in far larger numbers considering the vasudan society has much in common with the UEF, and the vasudans in general opposed returning to sol.

[MatthTheGeek]

And I thought BP fiction labeled the HoL as some kind of...esoteric sect after the first war, not being a whole underground organisation.

Well the whole point of an underground organization is that not any pilot that reads his tech room gets to learn about them

[NGTM-1R]

The GTVA does not consider tactical options about whether they're "nice" or not.

Nice is a tactical consideration when you're fighting a war where you don't intend to annihilate your enemy and have to live with them afterwards.

[crizza]

And I thought BP fiction labeled the HoL as some kind of...esoteric sect after the first war, not being a whole underground organisation.

Well the whole point of an underground organization is that not any pilot that reads his tech room gets to learn about them

Fair enough, would be interesting to learn a shadow war going on in the vasudan Medjay.

[CT27]

This is, of course, assuming GTVI/SOC ever find out about this.

That has me thinking - why would SOC need to actually find out about it? Steele just needs to say that they are. There is no one that will question that.

Could he say:  "Vasudan HOL spies are working for the UEF.  They're the ones who helped to prevent the ordered self-destruction of Neptune HQ and allowed it to fall into UEF hands"?

[Drogoth]

This is, of course, assuming GTVI/SOC ever find out about this.

That has me thinking - why would SOC need to actually find out about it? Steele just needs to say that they are. There is no one that will question that.

Could he say:  "Vasudan HOL spies are working for the UEF.  They're the ones who helped to prevent the ordered self-destruction of Neptune HQ and allowed it to fall into UEF hands"?

Better yet. If the UEF show the guncam from the assassination of the elder in Act 2, Steele says it was HoL agents flying Terran vessels trying to frame him and create a GTVA civil war.

Maybe they even DID do that, and manipulated some GEF's to do what they wanted - including the Ambush on the Psedjet. I'm sure this has been discussed to death prior to Act three, but I still don't think the ambush of the psedjet makes a lot of sense from Steele's perspective.

What would have happened if the Indus didn't show up? The GEF's would have captured or destroyed the Psedjet, or the Arethusa would have driven them off.

A) What's he planning to do with it? It certainly can never be seen in his hands again - the Vasudans would smell a rat. Would he just give it to them? Why give up a brand new logistics ships to a band of pirates you can just supply yourself anyays?

B) Destroy it? So what? Khonsu finds out that a gang of pirates destroyed one of his ships. It wasn't the UEF, it's unlikely to motivate the Imperium entering the war on the Tev's side. In fact, if anything, he would likely be pissed that Steele didn't properly protect the Psedjet.

C) The Arethusa arrives in time, drives off the GEF's saves the Psedjet. No UEF arrival. What does that gain Steele? A bunch of his mercenaries attack his ally's ship and a bunch of his soldiers drive off the mercenaries he is paying? Again, being attacked by bandits who the AT WAR with the UEF is unlikely to convince Khonsu that the Buntus are the bad guys here.

I can see the motive for the assassination though. That being said, I just don't see the motive or logic for the attack on the psedjet, and never really have. Now that we know about the HoL, how do we know they didn't organize that attack in order to make the UEF look GOOD? In fact, the only group that benefits from a GEF raid on the Psedjet IS the UEF. I smell a Fedayeen/HoL rat - especially since we know Captain Apries was an HoL agent.

Now to the assassination:

A) (Most likely in my opinion): Steele organized it in order to prevent an alliance or peace, this in response to the Psedjet incident, which I still don't think he planned.

B) The HoL/Fedayeen organized it in order to make it LOOK like Steele was trying to assassinate an elder in an attempt to break up the GTVA by implying that Steele has betrayed the Vasudans. It wouldn't be hard to believe that the Fedayeen has some captured Tev Hardware, and they've used GEF mercenaries as well. This kind of operation is right up their alley.

I still think A is more likely, but as a fluid response to the Psedjet incident, rather then a second step to a plan that included the Psedjet. I still don't think Steele had ANYTHING to gain from the psedjet incident. It doesn't make any sense.

Edit--

I guess what I'm saying is there may be more truth to Steele telling the Vasudan Admiral in Sol that there is a plot (to break up the alliance between the Tevs and Zods) than we maybe originally assumed.

[-Norbert-]

I can see one good reason for the GEF attack on the Presejet.
It's to make the Vasudans realize that even if the UEF doesn't attack them, there are still threads that they need to defend themsefls from in Sol. As a result they send their own warships to provide protection for their logistic vessel, which makes the already unlikely UEF attacks on it even more unlikely and frees up Steele's own ships for other operations.

Also if he manages to fully drag the Vasudans into the war, they already have attackships in place and can immediately participate, rather than having to wait for reinforcements.

If that was his plan, it's possible the GEFs messed up the jamming, allowing the distress call to get out and the UEF was never supposed to interfere in the first place.

[Drogoth]

I can see one good reason for the GEF attack on the Presejet.
It's to make the Vasudans realize that even if the UEF doesn't attack them, there are still threads that they need to defend themsefls from in Sol. As a result they send their own warships to provide protection for their logistic vessel, which makes the already unlikely UEF attacks on it even more unlikely and frees up Steele's own ships for other operations.

Also if he manages to fully drag the Vasudans into the war, they already have attackships in place and can immediately participate, rather than having to wait for reinforcements.

If that was his plan, it's possible the GEFs messed up the jamming, allowing the distress call to get out and the UEF was never supposed to interfere in the first place.

Why not just kill it yourself and say the UEF did it? It's not like the Vasudans have other assets in system to investigate the wreckage before it dissipates. SOC jamming and hardware would also be a lot more reliable then the GEFs.

Besides. The GEF's weren't running a destroy op. They were running a capture op. They didn't account for the toughness of Zod marines, nor the arrival of the Indus so they left the nuke behind in the airlock.

A capture op makes no sense (from a Steele orchestrating perspective), since they can't just hand it over to steele like I mentioned above, and why would he want them to have a logistics ship? As mentioned he can supply them fine. And if it was to set up some fancy 'we'll attack the GEF's to get your ship back for you Khonsu' - I somehow don't think Steele's gef mercenaries would take too kindly to getting attacked by Steele.

Edit-

The more I think about it, the more it seems incredibly convenient that the ship carrying Laporte was scrambled to assist a ship that happened to be captained by an HoL spy.

The Fedayeen obviously was keeping an eye on Laporte, (Masayaf, Sunglare). The BP team doesn't do convenience based story telling (or at least thus far they haven't). What was Captain Apries plan for sending that data to Laporte? Hope he ran across her at random? I sense deliberate planning.

[Klaustrophobia]

did it say somewhere in act 3 that the HoL were the ones who leaked the psedjet jump schedule (instead of steele as was assumed in act 2), or am i making that up?

[-Norbert-]

Why would the HoL leak the Presejets jump schedule to the GEF? The UEF only turned up because they caught the distress call, if I'm not mistaken.

I can see one good reason for the GEF attack on the Presejet.
It's to make the Vasudans realize that even if the UEF doesn't attack them, there are still threads that they need to defend themsefls from in Sol. As a result they send their own warships to provide protection for their logistic vessel, which makes the already unlikely UEF attacks on it even more unlikely and frees up Steele's own ships for other operations.

Also if he manages to fully drag the Vasudans into the war, they already have attackships in place and can immediately participate, rather than having to wait for reinforcements.

If that was his plan, it's possible the GEFs messed up the jamming, allowing the distress call to get out and the UEF was never supposed to interfere in the first place.

Why not just kill it yourself and say the UEF did it? It's not like the Vasudans have other assets in system to investigate the wreckage before it dissipates. SOC jamming and hardware would also be a lot more reliable then the GEFs.

Besides. The GEF's weren't running a destroy op. They were running a capture op. They didn't account for the toughness of Zod marines, nor the arrival of the Indus so they left the nuke behind in the airlock.

A capture op makes no sense (from a Steele orchestrating perspective), since they can't just hand it over to steele like I mentioned above, and why would he want them to have a logistics ship? As mentioned he can supply them fine. And if it was to set up some fancy 'we'll attack the GEF's to get your ship back for you Khonsu' - I somehow don't think Steele's gef mercenaries would take too kindly to getting attacked by Steele.

Edit-

The more I think about it, the more it seems incredibly convenient that the ship carrying Laporte was scrambled to assist a ship that happened to be captained by an HoL spy.

The Fedayeen obviously was keeping an eye on Laporte, (Masayaf, Sunglare). The BP team doesn't do convenience based story telling (or at least thus far they haven't). What was Captain Apries plan for sending that data to Laporte? Hope he ran across her at random? I sense deliberate planning.

It seems you midunsterstood what I tried to say.
In my scenario, Steele never meant the GEF to be successfull in either capture or destruction. He meant the GEF to attack the Vasudans so his forces could be the ones to rescue the logistics ship. Getting the Vasudans to guard the Presejet and making then owe him a favour on top.
Considering how comparetively easy the GEF boarders were beaten back, it does make sense that they were set up. Steele knew how formidable Vasudan marines are, so he knew they'd beat back the boarders. And his rescure ship, the Arethusa, was bringing a repair ship with it, to deal with any surprises the GEF might have left behind.
If the UEF hand't turned up, it would have been a perfect and smooth operation. Get attacked by GEF, beat the GEF back, save the Presejet from blowing up, win for Steele on all accounts.

As for the convenience. The HoL themselfs said that they had agents seeded all over Sol and sooner or later they would have found a way to give Laporte the message. To me that doesn't sound like they were actively trying to bring about a meeting, especially not in a way that might blow their cover.

Of course I wouldn't put it beyond the Fedayeen to have bring the whole situation into being, but did the Fedayeen even know about the HoL and them wanting to give ETAK to Laporte, before that fated message was sent?

[Drogoth]

Why would the HoL leak the Presejets jump schedule to the GEF? The UEF only turned up because they caught the distress call, if I'm not mistaken.

I was saying that maybe the UEF didn't turn it up by accident - maybe the Fedayeen routed it to them.

Of course I wouldn't put it beyond the Fedayeen to have bring the whole situation into being, but did the Fedayeen even know about the HoL and them wanting to give ETAK to Laporte, before that fated message was sent?

That I don't know - but how did the HoL know Laporte was special?

As for the rest of your analysis, seems solid enough. I still think either could be possible though.

[Aesaar]

Better yet. If the UEF show the guncam from the assassination of the elder in Act 2, Steele says it was HoL agents flying Terran vessels trying to frame him and create a GTVA civil war.

All he needs to say is that it was Federation pilots flying the Pegasi SOC allowed the UEF to capture.