Poll

How much would you contribute towards a Kickstarter aimed at acquiring the FreeSpace licence from Interplay?

< $10
14 (20.9%)
$10 - $100
38 (56.7%)
$100 - $250
7 (10.4%)
$250 - $500
5 (7.5%)
$500 - $1000
1 (1.5%)
$1000 - $10k
0 (0%)
$10k+
2 (3%)

Total Members Voted: 67

Author Topic: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?  (Read 18160 times)

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Offline TwentyPercentCooler

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
It's still a little bit like throwing rocks at a hornet's nest, though.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
The problem is that it's never anything new. So it goes nowhere and just annoys the regulars.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
The fact people flip out at what are without fail questions or ideas by newbies with big dreams is more of an indictment of them than it is the newbies who do the asking.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Except that I don't see anyone flipping out. That was something that happened way back in the past.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Except that I don't see anyone flipping out. That was something that happened way back in the past.

It was meant as part of the explanatory as to why we don't ban discussion of FS3 anymore. I wasn't replying to you, but to the thread and its general direction (and several other people who've complained about FS3 threads).
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

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Offline karajorma

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Fair enough.

I tend to agree that the reactions to discussion of FS3 were bordering on the ludicrous at one point. I can't blame any newbie for being surprised or upset that FS3 doesn't exist and wanting to talk about it. And while that might have been annoying to the regulars, the responses did get far too heated.

That said, it is mildly annoying when someone asks about Kickstarter or the like, cause you do have to wonder why they don't ever consider that in a community that has been around for over 10 years, someone might have thought of the same idea already. :p
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline Sandwich

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
To be perfectly honest, a Kickstarter for FS3 is simply too much. However, I don't see why a Kickstarter to collect the money needed to buy the FS rights from Interplay wouldn't be ok... the whole "you don't get charged unless the goal is met" thing is ideal, although I have no idea what the backer tiers could possibly be composed of. :p At the very least, it would finally be an accurate gauge of the level of interest in the Freespace IP, forcing people to put their money where their mouths have been for over a decade.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
What would we even want FS rights for, aside from making sure Interplay doesn't randomly enter a mod shutting spree like ModDB suffered with BSG (chances are close to zero tbh), and/or stopping Youtube from flagging copyrighted content on FS vids.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
What would we even want FS rights for, aside from making sure Interplay doesn't randomly enter a mod shutting spree like ModDB suffered with BSG (chances are close to zero tbh), and/or stopping Youtube from flagging copyrighted content on FS vids.

Seriously? I doubt a soul on this board would raise a finger if we somehow raised the money to purchase the rights and then simply handed the rights over to Volition.

In related news, I spoke with Dave Baranec via email a year ago, and I forgot I had mentioned a kickstarter campaign to him at the time. It was in response to someone who had contacted the admins on HLP wanting to know if a sizable donation they wanted to make could be put towards obtaining the FS rights, etc. Here's what we said:

Quote from: Sandwich
8/28/11

Well, the guy who was asking was wanting to donate something like $15k or so towards the FS IP rights and FS3 production... I guess that's not all that much in the grand scheme of things, but perhaps knowing that could be a catalyst for an official Volition FS IP kickstarter.com campaign or the like? I dunno, it just seems that if one person is willing to put that kind of money into it, that perhaps interest in rebirthing the genre is higher than the news media would indicate...

Quote from: DaveB
8/30/11
 
Ehhh, maybe.    Even if you could secure a couple hundred grand for the license, I think you’d have trouble getting the 20-30 million needed to put it together as a proper AAA title  :)
 
It would be pretty sweet it Freespace went out as the king of the hill and then brought the genre back as the new king of the hill.

Quote from: Sandwich
8/30/11

And honestly now, where the heck did those wild(ly useful) targetting commands originate from? "Enemy of my friend is my enemy" or something?

20-30 million, eh? Meh, give the storyline to the HLPers and we'll do it for free. :p Base it on the SCP and Volition would be hailed "King of Community Embracement", too. :p You wouldn't even need to sped a dime on marketing - the phoenix factor would do that for you. :p

I never got any reply to that... :(
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Nuke

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
so assume this all pans out and we actually do aquire the rights to fs, then what? just hand it over to volition and tell em to go nuts? they would still need to convince their publisher to fly with it, which itself could be a challenge considering the state of the space sim genre. and would thq demand a slice of the rights? id hate to have thq hijack the ip and if things go sour v and fs would be in the same boat as its been in for yeas. assuming all goes well and they do manage to make a game, would it be a very good game, or will they bend and bow to every demand of every console pesant out there, create a half-ass game with an engine worse than the current iteration of the fs2 engine? would that engine even be modable? would it carry on the freespace modding community? or would it devide it between hard core fs2 people and those who prefer to mod fs3? i wouldnt want to see it trash the existing community. the other side of it is if they have their ip back, what stops them from making freespace 4, 5 and 6? perhaps a little loss in modability is worth some extra sequals.

im really not looking forward to that **** storm.
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Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Pretty much agree with nuke on every point here. Like I said in my first post of this thread, I think it is simpler and objectively better to maintain the status quo.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Geez... paranoid much? ;)

so assume this all pans out and we actually do aquire the rights to fs, then what? just hand it over to volition and tell em to go nuts?

Yes, worst case scenario we just hand it over and take the financial "loss". That's what raising money for the IP would be all about anyway.

they would still need to convince their publisher to fly with it, which itself could be a challenge considering the state of the space sim genre.

Indeed they would. To put it humorously, "Hey publisher, we just developed a pretty successful game called Saint's Row the Third, so we're a bit of a darling among developers these days. Oh, also, fans of a few games of ours made over a friggin decade ago care so much that they raised enough money to buy those older titles' IP, and then gave us those rights. So, we're making a game from those rights. We'd like you to back us, but it's happening anyway, and we have the suspicion that even if you don't, it'll be fine. KTHXBYE."

and would thq demand a slice of the rights? id hate to have thq hijack the ip and if things go sour v and fs would be in the same boat as its been in for yeas.

So in that case at least V's publisher would have the rights, instead of not-V's publisher. I'll take anything I can get.

Besides, we could give the IP to V under the condition that it doesn't get hijacked.

assuming all goes well and they do manage to make a game, would it be a very good game, or will they bend and bow to every demand of every console pesant out there, create a half-ass game with an engine worse than the current iteration of the fs2 engine? would that engine even be modable? would it carry on the freespace modding community? or would it devide it between hard core fs2 people and those who prefer to mod fs3? i wouldnt want to see it trash the existing community.

So? Even if Nu-FS is completely unmoddable, how will that affect our current SCP sweetheart? So we end up with an unmoddable sequel story/game that is finally canon, and a moddable SCP like we've been loving for years. This is worse than what we have now?

the other side of it is if they have their ip back, what stops them from making freespace 4, 5 and 6? perhaps a little loss in modability is worth some extra sequals.

Again, how is this worse than the current situation? I'm not saying the current one is bad by any means, mind you. But having more than we have now cannot make our situation worse.



Look, if we try and fail, we get extra media attention for doing so, more traffic, and we all win. If we try and succeed, we win bigger. If we try and succeed, and V fails (say the media report that "V's FS3 pales in comparison with what the FS2 community has been making for years"), we still win.

Where is the actual bad?
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Jeeze, you don't know when to drop it, do you ?

If you want to do it that much, go ahead. Just don't expect any support from us. And expect a huge "we warned ya" when it goes horribly wrong.

In case you haven't noticed, that idea is already dividing us even before we started implementing it. That doesn't exactly bode well for the future of this now does it.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

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666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline Sandwich

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Jeeze, you don't know when to drop it, do you ?

If you want to do it that much, go ahead. Just don't expect any support from us. And expect a huge "we warned ya" when it goes horribly wrong.

In case you haven't noticed, that idea is already dividing us even before we started implementing it. That doesn't exactly bode well for the future of this now does it.

Just trying to figure out if there's any valid reasons why this would worsen things is all, mate. So far, I haven't seen any.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline MatthTheGeek

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Then you are welcome to re-read the thread.
People are stupid, therefore anything popular is at best suspicious.

Homeworld: Blue Planet     -     Help us help you     -     FSO Installer     -     BP extras portal     -     My legacy

666maslo666: Releasing a finished product is not a good thing! It is a modern fad.

SpardaSon21: it seems like you exist in a permanent state of half-joking misanthropy

Axem: when you put it like that, i sound like an insane person

bigchunk1: it's not retarded it's american!
bigchunk1: ...

batwota: steele's maneuvering for the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: you mispelled grâce
Awaesaar: grace
batwota: oh right :P
Darius: ah!
Darius: yes, i like that
MatthTheGeek: the way you just spelled it it means fat
Awaesaar: +accent I forgot how to keyboard
MatthTheGeek: or grease
Darius: the killing fat!
Axem: jabba does the coup de gras
MatthTheGeek: XD
Axem: bring me solo and a cookie

 

Offline headdie

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
tbh matth all I have seen is mention of the problems such a project is likely to encounter and general pessimisms, the most focused of which is on "woe this will tear the community apart", with most of that focusing on how it will spoil existing mods and can I ask how would that happen when no mod is canon? it's like saying because inferno was released years ago Darius should never have bothered with Blue Planet because Post Capella and has been done!  Also who says FS3 has to be post Capella?

end of the day the community has a workable engine that has been worked on very dedicated and talented people which due to the licence cant be taken away from us.  We also have a strong modding ethic built up over the last 10+ years, that will not evaporate just because FS3 is out.  also if :v: did do FS3 in a post Capella setting I doubt they would be able to plausibly kill the shivas off there and then in one campaign leaving room for a new open ended setting with new canon material to work with.
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Offline Sandwich

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
Then you are welcome to re-read the thread.

Fair 'nuff. You want me to respond to every single seemingly valid point made in the thread? Here goes.

Seriously now, the reason we all keep coming back to Freespace 1 or 2 is because of the mystery, it's the lack of closure that makes Freespace interesting (just like the lack of closure was supposed to make MGS2 interesting, nevermind the brain dead fanbase killing that <_<) having a Freespace 3 would kill interest in the franchise.

I mean come on! it's the lack of closure that gave us awesome mods/campaigns like Inferno, Blue Planet, Vassago's Dirge, and hundreds more I cannot think of right now.
It makes us think, and only true art makes you think. (FS being art or not is subject to ones' opinion, keep that in mind)

True, the mystery has served the community very well. Who says FS3 would have to wrap up all the loose ends and unknowns from FS1 & 2? FS2 certainly didn't wrap up FS1's loose ends - it expanded them and added to them! Can we not give Volition the benefit of a doubt that they wouldn't pull a Matrix Revolutions?


It's been 13 years. Time to let go.

We have FSO. We have tons of mods. We have an awesome community. And Volition is still out there doing lots of awesome stuff that has nothing to do with FS.

You'll find that 99% of the people around here are perfectly fine with this state of affair.

Not saying what we have is bad. Just saying it can be even better.

As you can expect, in 13 years, people have debated over and over again about what FS3 could be or what it should be or whatnot. Most of those ideas have evolved into fanfics, campaigns, mods. FS3 would kill all of this by putting FS canon on a single, narrow track to follow. The only thing it would achieve is dividing the community over whether we should accept it or reject it or whatnot. It is simpler, and objectively better, for everyone involved, to keep the status quo. It has worked well for us for more than a decade, and it has shown no sign to become otherwise in the foreseeable future.

Freespace is not dead. It's our job, it's your job, to keep it alive. That's what we're all here for. We have the tools for it, we have the will for it, and that's all we'll ever need.

So what you're saying is that FS3 - presuming it would be set after the events of FS2 - would change the status of all the incredible fan fiction we've been producing over the years into non-canon? Uhm...

Ok, that's a bit pedantic. What you're really saying is that all the fan-fic would go from being potentially-true non-canon to definitely true/not-true non-canon? Does this make them any less enjoyable, or any less of an accomplishment?

I agree that it is nice to imagine that whichever fan-fic storyline we hold most dear is actually canon, but that's fantasizing about, well... fiction. Fictionception?

In any case, I think that in 13 years - as you pointed out - we've been over all the likely scenarios for what's what in the post-FS1/2 universe. Personally, now I'd like to see what we can come up with for the post-FS3 universe. :)

I don't see any potential FS3 having half the features that FS2 currently has, tbh.
And there's no guarantee it would be any less codethulu.
I don't see what's so exciting about it maybe except for an interface system which isn't stuck in the 90's.

All you're saying is that you're pessimistic about a FS3's potential. All I'm saying is let's find out.

That said, it is mildly annoying when someone asks about Kickstarter or the like, cause you do have to wonder why they don't ever consider that in a community that has been around for over 10 years, someone might have thought of the same idea already. :p

And yet it's never actually been tried. Better to have tried and failed then not to have tried at all, no?



So I still fail to see any valid reasons why this shouldn't be tried. I welcome any and all responses made in a mature fashion.
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"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline HAZARDLEADER

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
So I still fail to see any valid reasons why this shouldn't be tried. I welcome any and all responses made in a mature fashion.
If your talking about the making of Fs3 then I will pipe in, even though my thoughts and ideas are not worth much around here.  :P
 :v: doesn't have to make all commercial games. Hell they could make there own mod called Freespace 3 and say; "this is what it would have been, but the community has expanded upon our original idea was going to be and made it better. Our mod (fs3) is to-be considered non-cannon".
 
I'm sure you guys will find some way to flaw that statement, and beat me over the head with 'why it won't happen'. But I have realized that, I am happy with what we got!
Plus I am neutral on this topic, if there isn't a Fs3...fine I am happy with the way it is now. If there is...cool...gi-me gi-me, while still enjoying all of the mods already created!
And on buying the rights, imo just do it! If we got the rights we could to what ever the hell we want with Freespace, and we would not have to worry about copyrights ****. (on you-tube)

There I hope I responded correctly, just remember simple things elude me, and OH MY GOD its coming close to FOUR thats right FOUR pages!   :eek2:
...and from the depths of hell I return with gifts;  one-hundred bucks and a bottle of booze.

 

Offline The E

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
I for one am with sandwich on this. Yes, getting all the pieces into place will tale time and effort. Securing the license to develop the Freespace IP is the obvious first step, and starting a Kickstarter to raise a certain amount to present  Interplay and to gauge actual interest is definitely one of the saner ideas to make it happen.

And hey, better to have tried and failed than to have done nothing at all.

I mean, of course there's a risk that it may fail horribly, but just like sandwich, I am unable to see any real downside here.

Re: Volition doesn't have to make commercial games: Yes, actually, they do. They're a business, and a THQ subsidiary. They do not have the leisure to engage in Vanity projects.
Let there be light
Let there be moon
Let there be stars and let there be you
Let there be monsters and let there be pain
Let us begin to feel again
--Devin Townsend, Genesis

 

Offline headdie

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Re: A chance for FS3 with the help from kickstarter ?
I suspect a :v: made FS3 mod would have to be done in their own time rather than on the clock due to workload and deadlines on commercial projects.  Also as the company who developed the original games I hate to think what the legal situation would be.

If the original team got together and developed a mod in their own time with no reference to fs in the name and released it as a this is what we would have done it should be ok I would have thought.

edit

but when you consider their day job is making games, many of them probably want to just do something else in their free time
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