Author Topic: Forum game: Rules/Discussion  (Read 77426 times)

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Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
You know, I've gone through the thread searching for "retreat" and it looks like no one actually asked how damage works on a retreat.

So I'm going to ask now. How much damage do you take in a retreat?

 

Offline Jellyfish

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  • No relent
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
So wait, is the 1st SF's doom certain if it attacks the 1st Zy?
We're not sure. But please don't attack. Just go into the system, but don't attack. You should be safe if you do that.
The Zy will attack them.
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
How much damage do you take in a retreat?
I have this vivid memory of reading that every enemy fleet deals 50% damage on a retreat, but I can't seem to find the original post anywhere...
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Offline niffiwan

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  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
You know, I've gone through the thread searching for "retreat" and it looks like no one actually asked how damage works on a retreat.

So I'm going to ask now. How much damage do you take in a retreat?

Lets go to the video tape of the 1st LSF retreat :)

Code: [Select]
Draco, 1st LSF retreating

1st Nordera Fleet Fighters: 16+7/2 = 12
1st Nordera Fleet Capital: 14+8/2 = 11
Fighters at 133% Strength
Capital ships at 135% Strength

2nd Nordera Fleet Fighters: 12+5/2 = 9
2nd Nordera Fleet Capital: 10+6/2 = 8
Fighters at 83% Strength
Capital ships at 85% Strength


End strength:
1st LSF Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 7 (19+2+1)
Capital attack strength: 6 (14+1)
Fighters at 36% Strength
Capital ships at 41% Strength

As AdmiralRalwood said, looks like 50% damage on a retreat from each fleet in the system.
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Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
So wait, is the 1st SF's doom certain if it attacks the 1st Zy?
We're not sure. But please don't attack. Just go into the system, but don't attack. You should be safe if you do that.
The Zy will attack them.
That's what I want.

@ niffiwan, Admiral Ralwood

Ahhhhhhh. Well done you two. It should be safe for Jellyfish to retreat then, he'll take a hit, but it will be less than the 30% health he'll collect from the resupply.  :D

EDIT: And a minor detail I notice, 50% rounded up.

 

Offline Veers

  • 29
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I look at it like as if it was a real retreat in game.

So your fleet is massing at the lance, jumping straight out and along arrives the enemy.. they scream "HELLO!"  broadside and slap your vessels silly as you try and pull as many out while your line crumbles and fighters are dropping like flies, all while hostile capship and fighter numbers keep growing

50% is a very large loss regardless though, but I can roughly imagine loosing 50% of a retreat if it was the above scenario..

 :p
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Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Oh, speaking of the enemy saying "hello", a little something I found on my hunt...
* niffiwan waves hello to the Zy & Hertak...
They've come to say hello back. Personally...

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
50% is a very large loss regardless though, but I can roughly imagine loosing 50% of a retreat if it was the above scenario..
No no no, you don't lose 50% of your fleet, the enemy deals 50% of their normal damage.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Veers

  • 29
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Or that..., I was never good with numbers  :blah:
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Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
So wait, is the 1st SF's doom certain if it attacks the 1st Zy?
We're not sure. But please don't attack. Just go into the system, but don't attack. You should be safe if you do that.
The Zy will attack them.
That's what I want.

The idea is: the 1st SF can't win a one on one fight vs the 1st Zy.  Therefore we want to delay that defeat so that other fleets can relieve them (while we concentrate fire on fleets in Aldebaran).  I think that if 1st SF does not attack, and 1st & 2nd Zy attack the next turn, then the 1st SF will survive.  If the 1st SF attack the 1st Zy, I think the following turns attack from the 1st & 2nd Zy will destroy them (but they will survive an attack from just the 1st Zy)

Projections:

Case 1: attack by 1st SF

Code: [Select]
SF 1st Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 17+8=25 (18+2)
Capital attack strength: 15+9=24 (18)
Fighters at 83% Strength (43 left)
Capital ships at 86% Strength (46 left)

1st Zy Fleet (morale boost)
Fighter attack strength: 27+13=40 (22+2)
Capital attack strength: 26+14=40 (21+2)
Fighters at 119% Strength (94 left)
Capital ships at 120% Strength (96 left)

1st & 2nd Zy retaliate
Code: [Select]
SF 1st Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 9+4=13 (18+2)
Capital attack strength: 8+5=13 (18)
Fighters at 43% Strength (-21 left)
Capital ships at 46% Strength (-17 left)

1st Zy Fleet (morale boost)
Fighter attack strength: 23+11=34 (22+2)
Capital attack strength: 22+12=34 (21+2)
Fighters at 94% Strength (87 left)
Capital ships at 96% Strength (79 left)

2nd Zy Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 20+10=30 (21+1)
Capital attack strength: 19+10=29 (20+1)
Fighters at 90% Strength (84 left)
Capital ships at 91% Strength (85 left)

If the 2nd Zy don't attack, the 1st SF survives with ~10% forces left.



Case 2: no attack by 1st SF

1st & 2nd Zy retaliate
Code: [Select]
SF 1st Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 17+8=25 (18+2)
Capital attack strength: 15+9=24 (18)
Fighters at 83% Strength (13 left)
Capital ships at 86% Strength (17 left)

1st Zy Fleet (morale boost)
Fighter attack strength: 27+13=40 (22+2)
Capital attack strength: 26+14=40 (21+2)
Fighters at 119% Strength (106 left)
Capital ships at 120% Strength (108 left)

2nd Zy Fleet:
Fighter attack strength: 20+10=30 (21+1)
Capital attack strength: 19+10=29 (20+1)
Fighters at 90% Strength (78 left)
Capital ships at 91% Strength (79 left)

1st SF is badly mauled, but survives.
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Flak

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Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
If the 3rd Cordi decides to join the fray, then that may create a problem.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
That'll mean the 3rd Cordi & 2nd Zy will take retreat damage from the 2nd CRF & 2nd UGCR... and I think that damage will be just enough to save the 2nd SF.

If the 4th SF stay in Tauri after their attack on the 1st Zy though...
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
That'll mean the 3rd Cordi & 2nd Zy will take retreat damage from the 2nd CRF & 2nd UGCR... and I think that damage will be just enough to save the 2nd SF.

If the 4th SF stay in Tauri after their attack on the 1st Zy though...
Yes. DJ has adjusted his orders now, but Jellyfish is still attacking the Zy and staying put.

Jellyfish, please retreat to Librae and Resupply.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Moving with 1st action means the retreat won't be covered by 2nd SF - that's approx 20% damage going to be dealt by the 1st Zy.  Move with 2nd action means no resupply.  I guess taking the hit leaves 4th SF net +10% fleet strength @ ~60%?
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----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
----
m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I think that's exactly what it'll be, 20% down, 30% up, so take the hit and resupply, gain 10%.

 

Offline Jellyfish

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  • No relent
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Jellyfish, please retreat to Librae and Resupply.
Done AND done. The Zy will secure Tauri and that's a major (10) loss of supply, though.
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Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
Jellyfish, please retreat to Librae and Resupply.
Done AND done. The Zy will secure Tauri and that's a major (10) loss of supply, though.
Thanks. But they will not. The 1st SF will prevent it.

 
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
So, 4th SF is retreating to resupply in Librae and two fleets are moving in to Tauri to assault the 1st Zy?  Should the 1st LSF move in to Aldebaran and engage the enemy?
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Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
So, 4th SF is retreating to resupply in Librae and two fleets are moving in to Tauri to assault the 1st Zy?  Should the 1st LSF move in to Aldebaran and engage the enemy?
Just the 1st SF going to Tauri to stall the Zy.

But Alderaban is exactly where I want you, filling the gap left by the 1st SF. :)

You won't be able to attack though, as you have two systems to traverse.

 

Offline Lorric

  • 212
Re: Forum game: Rules/Discussion
I'm going to sleep now. My fellow players, Friday is the last day we have to enter our orders. Here is the status of said orders and the plan:

Top:

2nd SF - double Resupply. (done)

1st UGCR - pull back to Virgo and resupply. (done)

4th SF - pull back to Librae and resupply (done)

1st SF - move to Tauri, don’t engage (done)

2nd UGCR - engage 2nd Cordi (done)

2nd CRF - zeal, engage 2nd Cordi (done)

1st LSF - Travel to Aldebaran. (done)

Bottom:

No one can travel to Kardoen. So here’s what I would do:

2nd LSF - travel to Odin and Resupply. (no orders given yet.)

4th CRF - travel to Hydra. (done)

3rd DD - travel to Vega. (no orders given yet.)

2nd DD and 3rd CRF attack and destroy the 2nd Nordera. (done and done)

1st CRF - Capture the 4th Cordi, Use Zeal. (done)

3rd SF - Travel to Vega and Resupply. (no orders given yet.)

1st DD - Prepare Barrage and Secure the system. (done)

So 12/15 fleets are following the plan, 3 fleets remain.